AEW Women's Division Discussion

[holyshida]

Jan 14, 2021 13:57:30 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jan 14, 2021 13:18:47 GMT -5 holyshida said:

Shida has already faced Kana (Asuka) several times in Japan and more than held her own against her, and that was before Shida even reaches her prime. I think she's every bit as good as Asuka and better than Charlotte and Becky.

I just think there way more depth in the AEW division. Outside Asuka, Becky, Charlotte and maybe Shayna there's not much there at all.

AEW just has a far more deep roster - Shida, Riho, Yuka, Deeb, Baker, Nyla, Rosa, Penelope, Statlander, Ivelisse, Diamante, Shanna, Anna and Tay. Every one of those names are better than the vast majority of the Raw women outside the 4 I mentioned earlier

I think Asuka is number 1 overall. Obviously your username is holyshida I expect you to think differently. Shida, Deeb, Rosa I can give you as being better than the rest of Raw’s division after Becky, Charlotte, Asuka, Shayna. Definitely not the rest, though. Raw also has some good talent they’re not currently using much like Mia Yim, Naomi, Mickie James, Nikki Cross. Alexa not really being used in matches lately either. Then they have Peyton, Lacey and Mandy that they are seemingly building up.

Watch Shida's matches with Asuka In Japan

Ivelisse, Diamante, Britt, Nyla, Shanna, Statlander, Anna Jay, Tay Conti and Penelope are miles better than Naomi, Cross, Peyton, Lacey and Mandy. It's not even close in all honesty and have way more potential. You're confusing talent to how they're currently being used.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

Jan 14, 2021 13:51:36 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jan 14, 2021 13:15:36 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Raw and Smackdown are quantity over quality for me. Yes, they usually get more segments per show than AEW does, but it's the same old shit it's always been: Four Horsewomen at the expense of everyone else.

I've been disappointed with Shida's reign as AEW Women's Champion, but at least she actually defends her title. The booking of Asuka's Raw Women's Championship reign make Shida's look like the best thing ever.

Asuka’s been in 10 Raw women’s title matches since she won the title in April. Shida has been in 5 since May.

Also, Bayley and Sasha were on fire in 2020 and the best thing on any wrestling show. Not seeing that as any type of quantity over quality.

I think that is totally fair from the first eight months of last year. I think the booking for both main roster divisions has taken a big hit since Bayley/Sasha ended. The same applies to the title defenses. Asuka was having a ton of matches basically on multiple shows for a few months and that has really died down the past three to four months. That also is just a difference between WWE/AEW booking styles. Like Asuka will have a PPV match with Zelina Vega and then have a rematch the next night. Or she'll have a title match end in a 2 minute DQ to set up another match. You can like whatever you want, but AEW generally tries to limit defenses to matches where there will be a decisive finish with no need for an immediate rematch. 

[deezy]

Its kind of tough to make a list, but here's mine

NXT
Raw
Impact
SD
AEW

Impact isn't far behind Raw and NXT.

[Deleted]

Ima leave NXT out of this because bringing them into this is wholely unfair because they eclipse the rest.

Of the rest IMO Impact is easily the second best womens roster atleast in North America because of not only the depth of their womens roster but in how they utilize them and how creative they get from things like Wrestlehouse to the Undead Realm stuff to how varied the characters extend from one extreme to another...there is so much variety amongst their women that you are bound to find someone you like.

And then all the others kind of get lumped together because they are very up and down and not consistent at all.

[markymark]

Jan 14, 2021 13:51:34 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

Jade is a weird, weird case right now, and we're left in suspense as to what the deal is until we see her in the ring. She's been kept under wraps in training for like a year, as far as I can tell, and presumably they are pretty confident that they've done a good job getting her ready if they're throwing her out there like that. (Might also be because her friendship with Shaq was such a good marketing gimmick that they wanted her to be ready for primetime when she debuted in order to take advantage of that.)

It's encouraging that the last wrestler that they decided was ready, without much exposure or experience before hand, was Anna Jay. If Cargill is in fact as good as Anna Jay, then she'll do alright. Hell, if she's just a decent power wrestler who can bring her size to bear, she'll do fine.

But they've also made the unwise choice of familiarizing the audience to her via promos, when she is not delivering promos beyond her experience level. That's where I'd call it questionable booking.

When it comes to the women division, it isnt the first time AEW has pushed someone that hard while not being ready for the top spot

Face Britt
Nyla in late 2019 as well
Nightmare Collective

Recently they have cooled down on Swole.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jan 14, 2021 13:51:36 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jan 14, 2021 13:15:36 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Raw and Smackdown are quantity over quality for me. Yes, they usually get more segments per show than AEW does, but it's the same old shit it's always been: Four Horsewomen at the expense of everyone else.

I've been disappointed with Shida's reign as AEW Women's Champion, but at least she actually defends her title. The booking of Asuka's Raw Women's Championship reign make Shida's look like the best thing ever.

Asuka’s been in 10 Raw women’s title matches since she won the title in April. Shida has been in 5 since May.

Also, Bayley and Sasha were on fire in 2020 and the best thing on any wrestling show. Not seeing that as any type of quantity over quality.

It's as you said, subjective viewpoints, you saying Bayley and Sasha were the best thing on 2020 on any wrestling show is subjective as well, I liked their shtick but I thought it got insanely repetitive when they were on both shows doing promos as tag champs. Great matches though.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jan 14, 2021 14:31:39 GMT -5 markymark said:

Jan 14, 2021 13:51:34 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

Jade is a weird, weird case right now, and we're left in suspense as to what the deal is until we see her in the ring. She's been kept under wraps in training for like a year, as far as I can tell, and presumably they are pretty confident that they've done a good job getting her ready if they're throwing her out there like that. (Might also be because her friendship with Shaq was such a good marketing gimmick that they wanted her to be ready for primetime when she debuted in order to take advantage of that.)

It's encouraging that the last wrestler that they decided was ready, without much exposure or experience before hand, was Anna Jay. If Cargill is in fact as good as Anna Jay, then she'll do alright. Hell, if she's just a decent power wrestler who can bring her size to bear, she'll do fine.

But they've also made the unwise choice of familiarizing the audience to her via promos, when she is not delivering promos beyond her experience level. That's where I'd call it questionable booking.

When it comes to the women division, it isnt the first time AEW has pushed someone that hard while not being ready for the top spot

Face Britt
Nyla in late 2019 as well
Nightmare Collective

Recently they have cooled down on Swole.

Jade hasn't gotten to a top spot yet. Like she's not even close. Her first match is going to be against Red Velvet at some point down the road, and we're gonna do from there. 

Nightmare Collective also didn't get close to a top spot, they were cut off after their tag matches.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jan 14, 2021 13:51:34 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

Jade is a weird, weird case right now, and we're left in suspense as to what the deal is until we see her in the ring. She's been kept under wraps in training for like a year, as far as I can tell, and presumably they are pretty confident that they've done a good job getting her ready if they're throwing her out there like that. (Might also be because her friendship with Shaq was such a good marketing gimmick that they wanted her to be ready for primetime when she debuted in order to take advantage of that.)

It's encouraging that the last wrestler that they decided was ready, without much exposure or experience before hand, was Anna Jay. If Cargill is in fact as good as Anna Jay, then she'll do alright. Hell, if she's just a decent power wrestler who can bring her size to bear, she'll do fine.

But they've also made the unwise choice of familiarizing the audience to her via promos, when she is not delivering promos beyond her experience level. That's where I'd call it questionable booking.

Jade reminds me a lot of a modern day Chyna. And if she has tha much of a presence with people, she is gonna be a draw. Chyna was never a ring general but people wanted to see her, if Jade is even halfway decent in ring she will be ok imo. They aren't gonna put her out there unless they have confidence she can hold her own. In her interviews she's talked about how passionate she is about this, so she's not gonna half ass anything. 

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

Jan 14, 2021 14:31:39 GMT -5 markymark said:

Jan 14, 2021 13:51:34 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

Jade is a weird, weird case right now, and we're left in suspense as to what the deal is until we see her in the ring. She's been kept under wraps in training for like a year, as far as I can tell, and presumably they are pretty confident that they've done a good job getting her ready if they're throwing her out there like that. (Might also be because her friendship with Shaq was such a good marketing gimmick that they wanted her to be ready for primetime when she debuted in order to take advantage of that.)

It's encouraging that the last wrestler that they decided was ready, without much exposure or experience before hand, was Anna Jay. If Cargill is in fact as good as Anna Jay, then she'll do alright. Hell, if she's just a decent power wrestler who can bring her size to bear, she'll do fine.

But they've also made the unwise choice of familiarizing the audience to her via promos, when she is not delivering promos beyond her experience level. That's where I'd call it questionable booking.

When it comes to the women division, it isnt the first time AEW has pushed someone that hard while not being ready for the top spot

Face Britt
Nyla in late 2019 as well
Nightmare Collective

Recently they have cooled down on Swole.

I think it's worth noting that all of those were very, very short-lived.

Like...Britt's big face push only really lasted for, what, a month? Dynamite debuted in October and by December her main purpose was jobbing to put over Shida and Statlander.

Nyla was promoted hard but lost to Riho two or three times, then didn't do much before her squash with Leva that got her "suspended" so she could go on a Japan tour.

Nightmare Collective went from...late October to early January?

And it's a little disingenuous to say that Big Swole was pushed hard. Over the course of 2019, she lost to Nyla twice, had a feud with Britt that was mostly shenanigans, then had a match with Shida that got a lack of promotion so glaring that the critical response may well have shamed AEW into getting their act together. The only times Swole won when maybe she shouldn't were the ludicrous, overbooked nonsense of her handicap win over Rebel and Ford (which...let's face it, was just a lazy-as-sin way to extend a feud that had already used up every way it could fill up TV time before the PPV), and the tag win alongside Deeb against Ivelisse & Diamante. That's two results, across an entire year, that could maybe be considered "too much."

But then, all of that is the problem, isn't it?

Britt's face push felt longer and worse than it was because there was nothing else. The Nightmare Collective was awful on its own, but much worse because it dominated the entirety of AEW women's wrestling while it lasted - aside from a four-way title match that was booked on the fly to deal with Statlander missing a show, everything in the women's division was tied into Nightmare Collective by the time it ended. Big Swole and Britt Baker had a perfectly good feud (before it dragged too long), but if you weren't into Swole, you were getting absolutely nothing from women's wrestling in AEW for months on end, because again, there was nothing else.

The approach where there are no more than two women's storylines, combined with a slim roster that has only had one or two pushed wrestlers on either side of the face/heel divide at a time, had made every individual thing feel like it's taking up all of the oxygen (unless it's relegated to the internet like the tag tournament). Add in atrociously lazy booking for the storylines that are happening, and a whole lot of talent is in a no-win situation.

Every bit of this is also exacerbated by the fact that, since AEW was firing on all cylinders otherwise, failure to fix the glaring issues tainted everything that was actually going on.

AEW's just now gotten to a point where, hey, there's effort, there are wrestlers that they are getting behind big time, and the roster is starting to take shape. But that's all happening in the shadow of a full year where it felt like women's wrestling was anything but a priority.

[Mr Mario Mario]

I really wish AEW would let at least a few of the wrestlers in the division show some personality on a regular basis and have some actual feuds because this “oh it’s the 2nd last segment so let’s have two random women have a match” is just a drag (for me anyway)

Britt Baker is really entertaining these days. I enjoyed her with Big Swole because it was something at least

I’d honestly describe their division as functional because it’s not bad, wrestling wise anyway but I don’t feel like they give you a reason to be interested in the matches because there’s usually little build or characters

[The Captain]

Personally speaking, I think Shida's up there with Asuka and Becky Lynch and better than anyone else on Raw or Smackdown. It's all subjective, though.

[chrom]

Putting the women in tag or 6 man matches would help establish them. The only ones who get consistent tag matches are La Sicuria and that's just on Dark.

The last multi person match was a 4 way on the March 18th episode of Dynamite.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jan 14, 2021 15:58:06 GMT -5 chrom said:

Putting the women in tag or 6 man matches would help establish them. The only ones who get consistent tag matches are La Sicuria and that's just on Dark.

The last multi person match was a 4 way on the March 18th episode of Dynamite.

The last multi-person match on Dynamite was actually La Sicaria's vs Deeb/Swole and it was just a few weeks ago.

[chrom]

Jan 14, 2021 16:29:43 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Jan 14, 2021 15:58:06 GMT -5 chrom said:

Putting the women in tag or 6 man matches would help establish them. The only ones who get consistent tag matches are La Sicuria and that's just on Dark.

The last multi person match was a 4 way on the March 18th episode of Dynamite.

The last multi-person match on Dynamite was actually La Sicaria's vs Deeb/Swole and it was just a few weeks ago.

That's just a regular tag match. As in triple threats or fatal four ways

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jan 14, 2021 16:35:02 GMT -5 chrom said:

Jan 14, 2021 16:29:43 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

The last multi-person match on Dynamite was actually La Sicaria's vs Deeb/Swole and it was just a few weeks ago.

That's just a regular tag match. As in triple threats or fatal four ways

Multi Person Matches will probably happen more often as they get more women's depth which they have been slowly but surely

Just gotta be mindful of them because even if you don't get pinned in a multi man match it can count as a loss on your record, always wondered if they should make the people not involved in the result of the multi man have a tie or no score on their record to help ease that and do more of them.

[markymark]

Jan 14, 2021 15:49:08 GMT -5 Mr Mario Mario said:

I really wish AEW would let at least a few of the wrestlers in the division show some personality on a regular basis and have some actual feuds because this “oh it’s the 2nd last segment so let’s have two random women have a match” is just a drag (for me anyway)

Britt Baker is really entertaining these days. I enjoyed her with Big Swole because it was something at least

I’d honestly describe their division as functional because it’s not bad, wrestling wise anyway but I don’t feel like they give you a reason to be interested in the matches because there’s usually little build or characters

I find it disappointing how the Sicarias are truly boring characters and havent done anything since winning the Deadly Draw outside of matches on Dark, TayJay is already a more interesting team than them despite still being new in the business.

Nyla is another who had really questionable booking ever since Vickie became her manager. 

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jan 14, 2021 16:49:47 GMT -5 markymark said:

Jan 14, 2021 15:49:08 GMT -5 Mr Mario Mario said:

I really wish AEW would let at least a few of the wrestlers in the division show some personality on a regular basis and have some actual feuds because this “oh it’s the 2nd last segment so let’s have two random women have a match” is just a drag (for me anyway)

Britt Baker is really entertaining these days. I enjoyed her with Big Swole because it was something at least

I’d honestly describe their division as functional because it’s not bad, wrestling wise anyway but I don’t feel like they give you a reason to be interested in the matches because there’s usually little build or characters

I find it disappointing how the Sicarias are truly boring characters and havent done anything since winning the Deadly Draw outside of matches on Dark, TayJay is already a more interesting team than them despite still being new in the business.

Nyla is another who had really questionable booking ever since Vickie became her manager. 

La Sicaria's seem to be trying to find themselves on DARK and what works. Their finally finding some decent moves and finishers outside of the Code Red. Diamante's "Cuban Link" clutch looked great, it's as you said they just need a storyline, they could actually find one with TayJay being face now 

[holyshida]

Also I think the Thunder Rosa v Britt Baker match at beach break should be the first women's match to main event an AEW show.

That would send a message that they're taking the division seriously. Plus the feud would be deserving of that spot

[El Cokehead del Knife Fight]

Jan 14, 2021 14:18:31 GMT -5 @sigmax said:

Ima leave NXT out of this because bringing them into this is wholely unfair because they eclipse the rest.

Of the rest IMO Impact is easily the second best womens roster atleast in North America because of not only the depth of their womens roster but in how they utilize them and how creative they get from things like Wrestlehouse to the Undead Realm stuff to how varied the characters extend from one extreme to another...there is so much variety amongst their women that you are bound to find someone you like.

And then all the others kind of get lumped together because they are very up and down and not consistent at all.

NXT has benefitted from being able to hoard all the upcoming talent that came about from 2008-2015. AEW didn't have a great women's division to start with because, outside of the Joshi's, there wasn't a whole lot for them to work with in the US because NXT has so many under contract.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jan 14, 2021 19:31:58 GMT -5 holyshida said:

Also I think the Thunder Rosa v Britt Baker match at beach break should be the first women's match to main event an AEW show.

That would send a message that they're taking the division seriously. Plus the feud would be deserving of that spot

Depends on what else is announced for the show, but I would definitely not disagree that match should be a banger