Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
FANatic
You can either sink, swim, or be the captain....Long live the cheif
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 28, 2020 0:00:02 GMT -5
I think JR sells the feud almost immediately in the Survivor Series '96 match, saying something like how they're not garbagemen or whatever other strange gimmick fans had gotten tired of during the New Generation; they're wrestlers, and they're going to fight. It also told such a great, simple story: Austin was so bitter and resentful of the satisfaction he had never fully found in his career, so he unleashed all his frustrations at the biggest name in the company, the son of wrestling royalty who had paved a relatively smooth road to the world title and success in and out of wrestling. Bret, for his part...didn't really care that much at first. Austin was just another guy looking to make his name at the Hitman's expense; sure, Bret recognized what a great wrestler Austin was, but he had seen that story play out a million times before, why should he get too worked up about Austin? Then they have their first big match, Austin desperately wants to win and prove his worth, but he forgets that Bret has a notable reversal out of sleeper-style holds, so Hart just uses his technique to pin Austin...not beat him, not brutalize him, not match his anger, Bret just...pins him. 1-2-3, match over. Tough luck, Steve, them's the breaks. Of course, Stone Cold's gimmick was that he was basically a serial killer, so while Bret was ready to move on right away, Austin's obsession was just getting started. It's funny how it all worked out to create a storyline from the prologue (Austin calls out Bret in October 96) to the double turn at Wrestlemania 13 & it's after affects (The Hart Foundation is reunited as a faction) when both Steve & Bret are on the record that whole program after the initial match was largely thrown together due to the chaos happening behind the scenes in early 97. Yea, I want to say Bret has said that he was upset that they put him and Steve back together so soon. He enjoyed working with Austin but thought they would got more time to let things breathe and come back but it worked out for the best because they did it on the fly
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SmashTV
Dennis Stamp
Big Money, Big Prizes, I Love It!
The Excellence of Allocation
Posts: 4,484
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Post by SmashTV on Sept 28, 2020 5:00:38 GMT -5
I was at university so had stopped watching at this time, but by chance noticed the whole match was on YouTube and watched it last week.
The last big event I’d seen prior to this was Summerslam 96, where Shawn threw his mid match hissy fit against Vader. This match was such a contrast, with both Austin and Bret totally focussed, intense and believable in their role. Although it’s almost 25 years on, I’m glad I finally got to see it.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Sept 28, 2020 7:16:58 GMT -5
Although he hadn’t hit his peak superstardom by any stretch in my mind this was THE BEST Austin.
Promos, ring work, attitude we’re all spot on and you knew he was going to blow up and that the whole course of the federation was changing
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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 28, 2020 8:34:19 GMT -5
It's funny how it all worked out to create a storyline from the prologue (Austin calls out Bret in October 96) to the double turn at Wrestlemania 13 & it's after affects (The Hart Foundation is reunited as a faction) when both Steve & Bret are on the record that whole program after the initial match was largely thrown together due to the chaos happening behind the scenes in early 97. Yea, I want to say Bret has said that he was upset that they put him and Steve back together so soon. He enjoyed working with Austin but thought they would got more time to let things breathe and come back but it worked out for the best because they did it on the fly And then they had to come back a month later at INYH: Revenge of The Taker because someone else was hurt or left & that card had to be hastily rebooked as well.
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Post by Stu on Sept 28, 2020 13:19:54 GMT -5
You basically need a Venn Diagram to explain Bret Hart's last year with the WWF. You have 1996, where he's coping with the change in scenery. Then you have 1997, where he's frustrated with the scenery. Overlap both years and you have the core of all his drama with Austin and Michaels.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,947
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Post by salz4life on Sept 28, 2020 13:59:14 GMT -5
The promos Austin cut before Survivor Series with the black and white filter, barking dogs, and music in the background are probably my all time favorites. There was a grittiness there that the current WWE product is severely lacking. "Pink tights—what the hell is THAT all about, Bret? This ain't no ballet class. Sunglasses and sparklers? What a load of CRAP. So, Bret, you're coming back to continue a LEGACY? UH-UNH! Stone Cold's gonna make your comeback a living HELL. So, you can start begging for some mercy right now. You will beg for mercy—YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FIND IT! I think you're completely pathetic. You're the 'Best there is, was and ever will be'? Whatever! Son, you're looking at the best there is—Austin 3:16 rules! I will kick your pink-and-black ass all over the Garden. I'm gonna end your legacy. You WILL beg for mercy at Madison Square Garden." Absolute GOLD!
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 28, 2020 14:45:03 GMT -5
I think JR sells the feud almost immediately in the Survivor Series '96 match, saying something like how they're not garbagemen or whatever other strange gimmick fans had gotten tired of during the New Generation; they're wrestlers, and they're going to fight. It also told such a great, simple story: Austin was so bitter and resentful of the satisfaction he had never fully found in his career, so he unleashed all his frustrations at the biggest name in the company, the son of wrestling royalty who had paved a relatively smooth road to the world title and success in and out of wrestling. Bret, for his part...didn't really care that much at first. Austin was just another guy looking to make his name at the Hitman's expense; sure, Bret recognized what a great wrestler Austin was, but he had seen that story play out a million times before, why should he get too worked up about Austin? Then they have their first big match, Austin desperately wants to win and prove his worth, but he forgets that Bret has a notable reversal out of sleeper-style holds, so Hart just uses his technique to pin Austin...not beat him, not brutalize him, not match his anger, Bret just...pins him. 1-2-3, match over. Tough luck, Steve, them's the breaks. Of course, Stone Cold's gimmick was that he was basically a serial killer, so while Bret was ready to move on right away, Austin's obsession was just getting started. It's funny how it all worked out to create a storyline from the prologue (Austin calls out Bret in October 96) to the double turn at Wrestlemania 13 & it's after affects (The Hart Foundation is reunited as a faction) when both Steve & Bret are on the record that whole program after the initial match was largely thrown together due to the chaos happening behind the scenes in early 97. It's the importance of having strong characters with something to do at all times: you can run into backstage chaos of all kinds and navigate it on the fly successfully if you allow your characters to stay legitimate in the eyes of the fans and if you leave some fuel in the tank for some feuds and not just blow them off completely right away.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 28, 2020 16:17:13 GMT -5
It's funny how it all worked out to create a storyline from the prologue (Austin calls out Bret in October 96) to the double turn at Wrestlemania 13 & it's after affects (The Hart Foundation is reunited as a faction) when both Steve & Bret are on the record that whole program after the initial match was largely thrown together due to the chaos happening behind the scenes in early 97. It's the importance of having strong characters with something to do at all times: you can run into backstage chaos of all kinds and navigate it on the fly successfully if you allow your characters to stay legitimate in the eyes of the fans and if you leave some fuel in the tank for some feuds and not just blow them off completely right away. Having two top notch workers didn't hurt either
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,164
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Post by agent817 on Sept 30, 2020 0:34:56 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2020 15:22:25 GMT -5
The Mania match is legit one of my favorite matches ever.
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Post by mauled on Oct 3, 2020 1:03:29 GMT -5
Incredible feud. Should've been Austin who faced Bret at Montreal and beat him imo. The best thing that happened to Bret was Shawn losing his smile. There is no way there rematch from 12 would've been as good as his match was with Austin at 13.
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Post by sungod2020 on Oct 3, 2020 16:00:15 GMT -5
I watched Hart vs. Austin at Survivor Series 1996. That was a great match which gets overshadowed by Hart vs. Michaels in Montreal. Hart reverses an Austin sleeper, gets both feet on the turnbuckles, and propels himself onto Austin and pinning him for the win. It's a similar finish to Hart's match with Rowdy Piper at Wrestlemania 8. I wondered why Vince McMahon didn't have Bret drop the title to Austin at Survivor Series '97 instead of Shawn Michaels. They didn't have any animosity with each other backstage and Hart wouldn't have any issues with losing to Austin in Montreal. I think McMahon wanted Austin's coronation to occur at WrestleMania. Also, he had a gripe to settle with Owen Hart who put him on the shelves for three months because of that botched piledriver.
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Post by sungod2020 on Oct 3, 2020 16:14:53 GMT -5
You basically need a Venn Diagram to explain Bret Hart's last year with the WWF. You have 1996, where he's coping with the change in scenery. Then you have 1997, where he's frustrated with the scenery. Overlap both years and you have the core of all his drama with Austin and Michaels. Which ironically enough, I find that to be his best work. His character up until then was a fighting champion who was a back up plan when all Vince's other pet projects(Lex Luger, Diesel etc) have failed. In 97 with being screwed over time after time, he actually showed some substance in his character, even if it was stemming from behind the scenes.
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Post by MrElijah on Oct 3, 2020 18:33:51 GMT -5
You basically need a Venn Diagram to explain Bret Hart's last year with the WWF. You have 1996, where he's coping with the change in scenery. Then you have 1997, where he's frustrated with the scenery. Overlap both years and you have the core of all his drama with Austin and Michaels. Which ironically enough, I find that to be his best work. His character up until then was a fighting champion who was a back up plan when all Vince's other pet projects(Lex Luger, Diesel etc) have failed. In 97 with being screwed over time after time, he actually showed some substance in his character, even if it was stemming from behind the scenes. It can also be applied to Kayfabe. He get f***ed over by Fuji at WM9, betrayed by his Jealous Brother, got screwed out of the title again by said bro and hurt by Psycho Mr. Bob Backlund, gets a Title shot at the '95 Rumble but match gets thrown out during to interference, gets beleaguered by Lawler, gets betrayed by Bulldog, loses Title again after Monsoon restarts the Iron Man Match that ended in a Draw. And all that is before Austin decided to ruin any hope of Bret enjoying any type of success.
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Post by mauled on Oct 4, 2020 1:37:37 GMT -5
Which ironically enough, I find that to be his best work. His character up until then was a fighting champion who was a back up plan when all Vince's other pet projects(Lex Luger, Diesel etc) have failed. In 97 with being screwed over time after time, he actually showed some substance in his character, even if it was stemming from behind the scenes. It can also be applied to Kayfabe. He get f***ed over by Fuji at WM9, betrayed by his Jealous Brother, got screwed out of the title again by said bro and hurt by Psycho Mr. Bob Backlund, gets a Title shot at the '95 Rumble but match gets thrown out during to interference, gets beleaguered by Lawler, gets betrayed by Bulldog, loses Title again after Monsoon restarts the Iron Man Match that ended in a Draw. And all that is before Austin decided to ruin any hope of Bret enjoying any type of success. Then on top of all that he goes to WCW and gets screwed over by Hogan AGAIN amd then injured by Goldberg
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Oct 6, 2020 14:46:03 GMT -5
Low key mention of Bret Hart kicking out of the Stunner in the 1996 Survivor Series match before it was "the Stunner".
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Oct 6, 2020 14:50:12 GMT -5
The promos Austin cut before Survivor Series with the black and white filter, barking dogs, and music in the background are probably my all time favorites. There was a grittiness there that the current WWE product is severely lacking. www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7yLbfNywhIMan, those promos were game-changing.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,672
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Post by 4real on Oct 6, 2020 15:14:15 GMT -5
I think McMahon wanted Austin's coronation to occur at WrestleMania. Also, he had a gripe to settle with Owen Hart who put him on the shelves for three months because of that botched piledriver. And it was Austin’s first match since the injury so he just wasn’t ready in late 97 psychically
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 6, 2020 16:41:19 GMT -5
Pretty much one of the best examples of perfect booking.
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