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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Sept 24, 2021 14:11:54 GMT -5
It's always hilariously obvious when Flair is using a social media handler to make statements for him due to the Always Capitalize writing style he has when he's actually tweeting.
Kanyon had so many deep-rooted issues. Won't touch on the religious aspect on here, but man, that stuff about him being scolded for his sexuality infuriates me. I had no idea they did that Boy George thing, but wow...that was terrible. It's so sad that he couldn't have been around nowadays; society has changed so much in regards to mental health and acceptance. I feel like he was never comfortable in his own skin, even after coming out, and his bipolar issues complicated it even further.
Mortis was one of my favorite wrestling characters ever. I feel like his career will have a newfound appreciation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2021 14:47:22 GMT -5
I feel bad for the man who had to suffer this much, but this is no one's fault.
His struggles got the best of him in the end, but there is no finger pointing to be done here, IMO.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 24, 2021 15:03:22 GMT -5
It's always hilariously obvious when Flair is using a social media handler to make statements for him due to the Always Capitalize writing style he has when he's actually tweeting. Kanyon had so many deep-rooted issues. Won't touch on the religious aspect on here, but man, that stuff about him being scolded for his sexuality infuriates me. I had no idea they did that Boy George thing, but wow...that was terrible. It's so sad that he couldn't have been around nowadays; society has changed so much in regards to mental health and acceptance. I feel like he was never comfortable in his own skin, even after coming out, and his bipolar issues complicated it even further. Mortis was one of my favorite wrestling characters ever. I feel like his career will have a newfound appreciation. I'm reminded of Hurricane's shoot when he talked about Kanyon coming out. He talked about how most people kind of knew and were accepting and supportive, but there was so much else going on in Kanyon's head that nobody knew about and they wish they did
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Sept 24, 2021 15:11:07 GMT -5
Is Howard Stern a wrestling fan? I know he's had them on before but him saying Flair was a member of management seems to say he doesn't really follow wrestling. Was Flair a "manager" on screen at the time and Stern mixed the two roles up? It was pretty funny hearing Stern not exactly sure about things, Flair didn't seem too thrilled. It would be interesting, a few weeks ago with Flair still with WWE, if he made the same statement as he did last night-that he was towing the company line. Pretty sure Howard hates wrestling itself, but through interviews has made some wrestler friends over the years.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,460
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Post by msc on Sept 24, 2021 15:32:17 GMT -5
Genuinely Kanyon was one of the best talents in late stage WCW, and he started getting attention quickly as the Alliance MVP. But then his knee started playing up, and soon after he had that horrific medical allergic reaction that nearly killed him/f***ed his lungs up, and he was never the same wrestler again after that. His demons were terrible, and people who bigots to him can go to hell, but his luck was frankly horrendous too, and I'm not sure he ever recovered mentally from that medical crisis either.
I wish he'd never got injured, and find a niche to be a star in WWE or TNA and show his skills, but more important, I wish he was still around today. Even though it wasn't a surprise when it happened, his death was one of the few wrestling deaths that properly knocked me for six.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,460
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Post by msc on Sept 24, 2021 15:33:12 GMT -5
Is Howard Stern a wrestling fan? I know he's had them on before but him saying Flair was a member of management seems to say he doesn't really follow wrestling. Was Flair a "manager" on screen at the time and Stern mixed the two roles up? It was pretty funny hearing Stern not exactly sure about things, Flair didn't seem too thrilled. It would be interesting, a few weeks ago with Flair still with WWE, if he made the same statement as he did last night-that he was towing the company line. Pretty sure Howard hates wrestling itself, but through interviews has made some wrestler friends over the years. Foley said Stern hated wrestling and went into their first interview ready to shoot him down, but that Foley made him laugh in his first comment and that immediately lightened the atmosphere and chat.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,100
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Post by Mecca on Sept 24, 2021 15:41:40 GMT -5
I will always remember when Kanyon did the DDP gimmick and used the Kanyon cutter on random people like dudes backstage, camera guys, dude outside the arena.
It was great.
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Post by 5count5count on Sept 24, 2021 16:45:45 GMT -5
Hated the episode. It painted Kanyon himself to be the only guy responsible for his demise, with the rest being on "different times", as if those different times weren't riddled with homophobes. It also treated his sexuality as a dark secret, which is super appalling. Then I saw Jericho with his usual blank expression saying that everybody loved Kanyon, when the episode spend a whole lot of time showing little love for him. Just rotten. Not many knew Kanyon very well and he did hide his sexuality and mental illness for a very long time. So in hindsight he was responsible for his own demise. He would have violent outbursts and seeing how it was the 90's many might have mistaken it for roid rage.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 24, 2021 17:09:14 GMT -5
I will always remember when Kanyon did the DDP gimmick and used the Kanyon cutter on random people like dudes backstage, camera guys, dude outside the arena. It was great. He was the bright spot in so much crap in WCW. Mortis was the best performer in the Blood Runs Cold angle, both in terms of ringwork and charisma, it takes a lot of charisma to make a silent gimmick work after all. He made the wannabe flock member gimmick work too, and made the Raven losing streak gimmick tolerable with the trying to cheer him up skits. Kanyon made his DDP wannabe gimmick work too, kanyon cutting everyone, just because, and ultimately he was one of the few people who always felt like he was trying when the company was a never ending dumpster fire. Who better than Kanyon?
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Post by wildojinx on Sept 24, 2021 17:39:55 GMT -5
Minor nitpick, the Mortis gimmick debuted AFTER the NWO, I believe around early 1997, and the Glacier gimmick may also have debuted after the NWO (I'm pretty sure it happened after Hall and Nash's debuts at least).
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Sept 24, 2021 17:57:11 GMT -5
I've been in a similar boat as your friend. I always read that as "goddam I'm so attracted to you, but society won't let me express it in a healthy manner, so I have to reaffirm it over and over to make it okay with my own cognitive dissonance about myself". Imagine a world where bisexual men were allowed to be comfortable being bisexual men. I'm not sure the bigot was secretly bisexual because he said a bunch of other super bigoted things about race and religion. Eventually he got kicked out of the group for screaming at the DM's wife for "not playing right" so there was a bit more to it than that. You may well be right about a lot of people though. True, it was a blanket statement, but I've found the people who have to yell the loudest are doing so to distract you from the secrets they're trying to hide. The herd mentality abides, and the skeletons are safe in the closet. But that goes into a whole ball of wax that's against the board rules
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y4j1981
Dennis Stamp
Rowsdower
Posts: 4,653
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Post by y4j1981 on Sept 24, 2021 18:02:01 GMT -5
Minor nitpick, the Mortis gimmick debuted AFTER the NWO, I believe around early 1997, and the Glacier gimmick may also have debuted after the NWO (I'm pretty sure it happened after Hall and Nash's debuts at least). I might have dates wrong but... Couldn't find all the info but the nWo "debuted" at Bash at the Beach, July 7 1996. Mortis "debuted" in 1997. Mortis vs Glacier first ppv match was Uncensored, March 1997, which had the Team nWo vs Team Piper vs Team WCW match. Also Buff vs Riggs
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sfvega
Grimlock
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Post by sfvega on Sept 24, 2021 18:55:15 GMT -5
Props to Cage for being honest when I'm sure a lot of people would have painted themselves in a better light. Though disappointing, a lot of people in the mid-2000s were still homophobic. Glad that his trepidation about Kanyon coming out didn't manifest itself in treating him any differently.
Taker is a shithead, no one will convince me otherwise.
Not sure why the AEW exec gives the WWE blind benefit of the doubt on the Boy George stuff when they've repeatedly torpedoed their own talent for no good reason. Much less one who would have been ostracized completely by the meathead old guard as well as Vince's inner circle. Meanwhile Jericho, who spent many a year there, thinks it's infinitely possible.
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sfvega
Grimlock
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Post by sfvega on Sept 24, 2021 19:04:28 GMT -5
Minor nitpick, the Mortis gimmick debuted AFTER the NWO, I believe around early 1997, and the Glacier gimmick may also have debuted after the NWO (I'm pretty sure it happened after Hall and Nash's debuts at least). I might have dates wrong but... Couldn't find all the info but the nWo "debuted" at Bash at the Beach, July 7 1996. Mortis "debuted" in 1997. Mortis vs Glacier first ppv match was Uncensored, March 1997, which had the Team nWo vs Team Piper vs Team WCW match. Also Buff vs Riggs Apparently listening to the TiJ episode on Kanyon, they kept moving the Mortal Kombat angle back and also got a lawsuit on them in the process. I can find where they ran a promo for Glacier in June of 96, which obviously lines up well with the formation of the NWO. I don't think anything changes, as Cat and Glacier were never gonna be that entertaining being as green and having no mic skills at the time. But the NWO was a hurricane of creative, ruining most everything in their path. It's possible they undercut this angle, but very unlikely.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Sept 24, 2021 19:07:23 GMT -5
Wrath, Mortis, and Glacier all definitely existed during the glory days of the NWO run (the latter part of 1996 through 1997). It started to get phased-out around 1998 if I recall. That's when Kanyon was unmasked, Wrath returned and was repacked as less of a dark character, Ernest Miller was repackaged as a funky dancer, and Glacier was phased-out before returning as Buzz Stern. But perhaps there was a feeling that the characters no longer fit and were closer to the 1995 version of WCW rather than the things that were taking off like NWO, the new version of Sting, and DDP. So, it's not exactly true that the NWO's arrival on the scene killed off the characters, you could argue that things like the NWO catching on is what led to those characters feeling out of touch with what was making WCW popular.
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"Magic" Mark Hurr
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Here, have some chili dogs
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Sept 25, 2021 1:42:42 GMT -5
Wrath, Mortis, and Glacier all definitely existed during the glory days of the NWO run (the latter part of 1996 through 1997). It started to get phased-out around 1998 if I recall. That's when Kanyon was unmasked, Wrath returned and was repacked as less of a dark character, Ernest Miller was repackaged as a funky dancer, and Glacier was phased-out before returning as Buzz Stern. But perhaps there was a feeling that the characters no longer fit and were closer to the 1995 version of WCW rather than the things that were taking off like NWO, the new version of Sting, and DDP. So, it's not exactly true that the NWO's arrival on the scene killed off the characters, you could argue that things like the NWO catching on is what led to those characters feeling out of touch with what was making WCW popular. Which makes sense. But at this time, WCW had many shows. And a lot of tv time to fill. Which is plenty of time to have different character types to book in there own space. But once NWO became a thing, a lot of common sense went out of the f***ing window. Not like they booked that way to begin with, lol. Things didn't have to be Dungeon of Doom goofy, but the Glacier, Wrath, Mortis, Earnest Miller types could have had their own lane. Like the luchadores. Like the "hardcore gimmick" match guys. And things of that nature. Like Raven and his Flock were the middle ground between the cartoon character gimmicks and the more straight forward guys. Instead of using the guys with different gimmicks/programs to balance out the other, they went in a direction that delegitimized their other options.which is a common occurrence in pro wrestling. Once the NWO was played out, what was left other than familiarity with the legacy talent.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Sept 25, 2021 9:22:35 GMT -5
I will always remember when Kanyon did the DDP gimmick and used the Kanyon cutter on random people like dudes backstage, camera guys, dude outside the arena. It was great. I f***ing loved Positively Kanyon. BOOM Kanyon Cutter!!! My friends and I actually used to joke about it all the time
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Sept 25, 2021 9:39:36 GMT -5
With them tackling homophobia, maybe they can cover more about racism? I think they touched on racism in wrestling a little in the Moolah and New Jack episodes. But I was just reading the Undertaker thread and there’s no shortage of material to work with. Also this (language warning): youtu.be/yFG42Wxkjt8Yeah…Ric Flair makes another appearance.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Sept 25, 2021 10:48:07 GMT -5
What Taker did is really f***ed up and close to Benoit level shit. He may have given him CTE and f***ed his whole brain up
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Post by fortknox on Sept 25, 2021 11:19:31 GMT -5
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