Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,069
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 2, 2020 20:45:32 GMT -5
I'm in this weird position where I like Batman Forever but I just find Batman & Robin unwatchable. Maybe it'd be better if I revisited it since it's been a few years but last time I watched it I just found it incredibly dull any time Freeze wasn't onscreen. It has its moments, but yeah, it's honestly just less interesting than Forever for the most part.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 2, 2020 21:47:44 GMT -5
I'm in this weird position where I like Batman Forever but I just find Batman & Robin unwatchable. Maybe it'd be better if I revisited it since it's been a few years but last time I watched it I just found it incredibly dull any time Freeze wasn't onscreen. I’d be surprised if that wasn’t the majority opinion on the two films. Batman Forever is a decent Batman movie with an interesting aesthetic. Batman and Robin is a bad acid trip version of Batman 66 that just mutilated the Bane character beyond recognition.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 2, 2020 22:15:13 GMT -5
I'm in this weird position where I like Batman Forever but I just find Batman & Robin unwatchable. Maybe it'd be better if I revisited it since it's been a few years but last time I watched it I just found it incredibly dull any time Freeze wasn't onscreen. I’d be surprised if that wasn’t the majority opinion on the two films. Batman Forever is a decent Batman movie with an interesting aesthetic. Batman and Robin is a bad acid trip version of Batman 66 that just mutilated the Bane character beyond recognition. PArt of the issue is they didn't seem to know what type of direction they wanted to go with for Batman And Robin. Freeze is an amalgamation of three different takes on the character that don't fit together. The Sympathetic unfeeling villain of Batman TAS that we are supposed to feel sorry for. The wacky goofball that lives in a frozen food building and sings Snow Miser. and a straight up monster that kills people willing and gleefully... if he's a goofball making puns and singing showtunes... he's not unfeeling ... openly killing people makes him lose the sympathetic angle... and being a goofball makes him lose a lot of his bite as a monster... and Bane is a mostly silent hench... for "Reasons" they literally could have just made a plant monster be Ivy's heavy... but... no they wanted name recognition...
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 2, 2020 22:16:26 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think B&R is in any way "good". But it's a fascinating, wild car wreck. Plus it's not as bleak as BvS.
I can take dumb BatCard jokes, Arnold being insane, and a braindead goofy Bane. Dawn of Justice was just non-stop joylessness.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 2, 2020 22:24:02 GMT -5
My lizard brain read this as "Batman Reigns" at first and wondered if Roman was dropping the Tribal Chief gimmick for becoming Batman.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 2, 2020 23:02:17 GMT -5
For me, Begins is the best live-action Batman movie, period. It's far from perfect, but it strikes a solid balance between traditional Batman tropes and the more realistic aspects that Nolan wanted to adhere to.
Plus Bale's Batman voice isn't as absurd as it got in the sequels. That really gets it some brownie points.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2020 23:06:42 GMT -5
If nothing else I do think it's pretty hard to argue against the idea that Forever has the best live-action Gotham put onscreen.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 3, 2020 0:08:53 GMT -5
If nothing else I do think it's pretty hard to argue against the idea that Forever has the best live-action Gotham put onscreen. Schumacher's Gotham is almost perfect. Easily my favourite.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 3, 2020 0:25:51 GMT -5
If nothing else I do think it's pretty hard to argue against the idea that Forever has the best live-action Gotham put onscreen. Schumacher's Gotham is almost perfect. Easily my favourite. I always felt Burton's Gotham was way too small scale... and obviously a set. Schumaker's certainly had both scope and the strange art deco architecture I'd expect for a place like Gotham... Nolan's like most seemed too much like just a city... it didn't feel as much like a place where costumed villains and vigilantes would run around... like a lot of the Nolan stuff it leaned a bit too hard into trying to be realistic in a situation that is pretty much by design fantastical.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 3, 2020 1:13:35 GMT -5
Nolan's like most seemed too much like just a city... it didn't feel as much like a place where costumed villains and vigilantes would run around... like a lot of the Nolan stuff it leaned a bit too hard into trying to be realistic in a situation that is pretty much by design fantastical. I'd argue Begins at least felt like Gotham. There were some traditional big city landscapes, but a lot of run down and gritty areas, plus an outright slum. There were a couple of recognisable real-world locations, but they were sparingly used. The Gotham in latter two movies were literally just Chicago and Pittsburgh, and made no attempt to disguise that.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,695
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Post by 4real on Dec 3, 2020 6:17:23 GMT -5
I remember the first time I watched it with a friend around his house and we both didn’t like it and thought it was boring.
I watched it again on my own to give it another chance and I loved it. Maybe because my attention was fully on the film it really feels like you have to be 100% focused on it to get everything that’s going on. It’s not incredibly flashy and doesn’t feature the most well known villains (Yeah I know Scarecrow & Ra’s are probably top 10 but neither were ever in 60’s Batman or the previous 4 films) but it’s the best put together film.
I agree that Two Face should have been the main villain for Dark Knight Rises not sure if they could have got Eckhart for the 3rd Nolan film or if Nolan just didn’t want to do that I don’t know.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 3, 2020 11:15:57 GMT -5
I agree that Two Face should have been the main villain for Dark Knight Rises not sure if they could have got Eckhart for the 3rd Nolan film or if Nolan just didn’t want to do that I don’t know. I said it earlier. Nolan was only signed on for two movies, and he didn't really want to make a third anyway. Originally The Dark Knight was two movies, rather than potentially leave a story half told he spliced the two together. But The Dark Knight got all the money, so he was brought back... and then basically had to start from scratch on scripting.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 3, 2020 11:43:33 GMT -5
My lizard brain read this as "Batman Reigns" at first and wondered if Roman was dropping the Tribal Chief gimmick for becoming Batman. But he’s already being managed by the Penguin.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 15:26:50 GMT -5
I still don't really understand the, "Let's do Knightfall, and No Man's Land, and kind of Dark Knight Returns all at once," decision with Rises. I feel like everything about Dark Knight logically feeds into a third movie where you have the antithesis of the Joker forcing Gotham into strict order while Batman's hunted by the police. Sort of a vigilante form of Riddler, Azrael, Lockup, any of these would have been a more sensible followup.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 3, 2020 15:33:23 GMT -5
I still don't really understand the, "Let's do Knightfall, and No Man's Land, and kind of Dark Knight Returns all at once," decision with Rises. I feel like everything about Dark Knight logically feeds into a third movie where you have the antithesis of the Joker forcing Gotham into strict order while Batman's hunted by the police. Sort of a vigilante form of Riddler, Azrael, Lockup, any of these would have been a more sensible followup. I fully expected Riddler to show up... besides there were little Easter Eggs mentioning him... the full order thing seemed like a good antithesis like you said... (especially with Harvey out of the picture) but yeah Lockup as GCPD's like supercop experiment to take on the extraordinary criminals like Batman/Joker/etc. that eventually starts responding to every minor violation with extreme force. (Granted that might work better if there seemed like there were more big time criminals in Gotham...) I could even see Bane somewhat in that role... in a might makes right type mercenary...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 15:43:22 GMT -5
I think the Dark Knight trilogy in general is very average. It just seemed awesome after Batman and Robin, and Marvel Studios wasn't a thing yet.
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cosmo
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,388
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Post by cosmo on Dec 3, 2020 20:44:26 GMT -5
Thinking about the Nolan movies, I always heard that Nolan didn't want to use the Penguin because he didn't feel Penguin fit with the whole realistic vibe Nolan was going for. Why not just do Penguin as a chubby mob boss/arms dealer type that's fascinated with birds? It'd fit in with the mob having such a deep foothold in Nolan's Gotham.
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Post by Wilfred on Dec 3, 2020 21:18:09 GMT -5
Thinking about the Nolan movies, I always heard that Nolan didn't want to use the Penguin because he didn't feel Penguin fit with the whole realistic vibe Nolan was going for. Why not just do Penguin as a chubby mob boss/arms dealer type that's fascinated with birds? It'd fit in with the mob having such a deep foothold in Nolan's Gotham. Yeah I agree he definitely could have made it work if he wanted. Same with Riddler or even Mr. Freeze. Make Riddler a Se7en or Zodiac style serial killer (which is what The Batman is doing now), and have Freeze encase his victims in ice to slowly kill them. I’m still ticked we didn’t get a Joseph Gordon-Levitt continuation in this universe as well. You could ground many of the more outrageous villains to fit in the Nolanverse, even if Nolan himself moved on.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 4, 2020 3:38:06 GMT -5
If nothing else I do think it's pretty hard to argue against the idea that Forever has the best live-action Gotham put onscreen. I will believe this to my dying day. Barbara Ling's production design was incredible.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 4, 2020 10:22:05 GMT -5
The knock off Statue of Liberty was pretty goofy in Schumacher's Gotham. It was fine, the random statues throughout the city were cool, but that one was just like "ok we're doing this now."
Then again Riddler had his headquarters in a gigantic blender that shot lasers.
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