bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 78,293
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Post by bob on Dec 18, 2020 6:15:33 GMT -5
2 was pretty terrible
Mostly squash matches
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 18, 2020 11:24:46 GMT -5
I think another 3 city WM could have worked given the right amount of matches. 5, 6 or 7 come to mind of events that could have worked with 3 cities given how many matches they had. As someone else mentioned, it's surprising WWE never did a foreign wrestlemania, outside of North America. Summerslam 1992 did so well, you'd think there'd be a wrestlemania there. Probably U.S. fans would be disappointed they didn't get one that year.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 18, 2020 11:31:34 GMT -5
The idea of the Fridge winning the battle royal is preposterous. The entire point was to use NFL guys to put the WWF over. Remember when the WWF did that with celebrities instead of shamelessly catering to them? With the exception of Andre all the wrestlers in the match were JTTS or rapidly being shown the door. So long as Andre was protected you could end up with Fridge eliminating John Studd to win in a feel good moment for the Chicago crowd. I agree with you about protecting wrestlers they had plans to push. Well past their primes Sika & Pedro Morales or Dan "Fake Barry Windham" Spivey were not those people.
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SmashTV
Dennis Stamp
Big Money, Big Prizes, I Love It!
The Excellence of Allocation
Posts: 4,480
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Post by SmashTV on Dec 18, 2020 14:28:21 GMT -5
I think it was a case of ego slightly getting the better of them. The WWF was huge and after the success of the first Wrestlemania I think they thought they could could handle the scope of three cities. Technical glitches and some suspect matches do mar the show, but to the WWF’s credit they ironed out all the mistakes for the glory that is WM3.
Of course, Hogan/Andre as a main event in 1987 would always do good business.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Dec 18, 2020 17:34:26 GMT -5
The idea of the Fridge winning the battle royal is preposterous. The entire point was to use NFL guys to put the WWF over. Remember when the WWF did that with celebrities instead of shamelessly catering to them? With the exception of Andre all the wrestlers in the match were JTTS or rapidly being shown the door. So long as Andre was protected you could end up with Fridge eliminating John Studd to win in a feel good moment for the Chicago crowd. I agree with you about protecting wrestlers they had plans to push. Well past their primes Sika & Pedro Morales or Dan "Fake Barry Windham" Spivey were not those people. Or you can skip a step and just put over Andre. And put over Studd, too.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 18, 2020 17:47:11 GMT -5
With the exception of Andre all the wrestlers in the match were JTTS or rapidly being shown the door. So long as Andre was protected you could end up with Fridge eliminating John Studd to win in a feel good moment for the Chicago crowd. I agree with you about protecting wrestlers they had plans to push. Well past their primes Sika & Pedro Morales or Dan "Fake Barry Windham" Spivey were not those people. Or you can skip a step and just put over Andre. And put over Studd, too. Studd was on the way out, Andre was leaving to film. There would have been no harm done by putting Fridge over in the battle royale.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 18, 2020 17:47:49 GMT -5
The Three Venue setup while unique was always a terrible idea.
For multiple reasons... timing wise the technology wasn't really there for it so it lead to a bunch of glitches for instance.
But two of the biggest reasons are as follows... no one goes to a big arena show to watch a screen.
It's why the cinematic style matches work NOW but the times they've done similar stuff live have died a death.
And tied into that... imagine being a Huge Randy Savage fans and getting tickets to Wrestlemania to see him wrestle... but you're in Chicago and he's in New York.
You are paying way more money to get a worse experience than if you had just stayed home.
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 18, 2020 18:54:59 GMT -5
And tied into that... imagine being a Huge Randy Savage fans and getting tickets to Wrestlemania to see him wrestle... but you're in Chicago and he's in New York. You are paying way more money to get a worse experience than if you had just stayed home. Were the venues announced ahead of time, in regards to which fans were getting which matches. Fans at home weren't exactly treated fairly LOL. We could have done without Susan St. James, Elvira or Cathy Lee Crosby. None seemed like they particularly knew the product or wrestlers. Susan's emotions at least made it seem like she "might" know each guy plus her husband should have known most of them. Elvira didn't seem to know and Cathy Lee could only really speak of days of old watching with her grandfather or father. I think a show with Ernie Ladd and Gorilla and one with Lord Alfred and Jesse and Vince and a partner would have been fine. Maybe keep Susan with Vince since they may have already known each other and got along. The other guest celebrities really weren't any better. Clara Peller looked like some relative just drug her out to the show.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 18, 2020 19:07:42 GMT -5
Or you can skip a step and just put over Andre. And put over Studd, too. Studd was on the way out, Andre was leaving to film. There would have been no harm done by putting Fridge over in the battle royale. TBH I was just messing when I thought of posting about the Fridge winning. The more I thought about, even before posting, convinced me it wasn't a bad idea. I mean why not give Andre a match in Chicago & then have Fridge go over? * *In this universe the planned Bret Hart vs Ricky Steamboat match would have happened as well.
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Post by chronocross on Dec 18, 2020 19:21:08 GMT -5
And tied into that... imagine being a Huge Randy Savage fans and getting tickets to Wrestlemania to see him wrestle... but you're in Chicago and he's in New York. You are paying way more money to get a worse experience than if you had just stayed home. Were the venues announced ahead of time, in regards to which fans were getting which matches. Fans at home weren't exactly treated fairly LOL. We could have done without Susan St. James, Elvira or Cathy Lee Crosby. None seemed like they particularly knew the product or wrestlers. Susan's emotions at least made it seem like she "might" know each guy plus her husband should have known most of them. Elvira didn't seem to know and Cathy Lee could only really speak of days of old watching with her grandfather or father. I think a show with Ernie Ladd and Gorilla and one with Lord Alfred and Jesse and Vince and a partner would have been fine. Maybe keep Susan with Vince since they may have already known each other and got along. The other guest celebrities really weren't any better. Clara Peller looked like some relative just drug her out to the show. I'm pretty sure they announced it ahead of time, you can see the Wrestlemania 2 Press Conference on the network in the Hidden Gems section where they talk about it. In a sign of things to come they have technical difficulties on the conference as well. The boxing match was atrocious and I always fast-forwarded through it whenever we would watch the tape of WM2. I also remembered the ring mat in Chicago having a lot more spring to it than usual.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,897
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 18, 2020 20:48:31 GMT -5
The Three Venue setup while unique was always a terrible idea. For multiple reasons... timing wise the technology wasn't really there for it so it lead to a bunch of glitches for instance. But two of the biggest reasons are as follows... no one goes to a big arena show to watch a screen.It's why the cinematic style matches work NOW but the times they've done similar stuff live have died a death. And tied into that... imagine being a Huge Randy Savage fans and getting tickets to Wrestlemania to see him wrestle... but you're in Chicago and he's in New York. You are paying way more money to get a worse experience than if you had just stayed home. While true, it’s also slightly unfair because unless you were in one of those 3 cities, that’s exactly what you were doing to see the show.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Dec 18, 2020 21:47:46 GMT -5
Studd was on the way out, Andre was leaving to film. There would have been no harm done by putting Fridge over in the battle royale. TBH I was just messing when I thought of posting about the Fridge winning. The more I thought about, even before posting, convinced me it wasn't a bad idea. I mean why not give Andre a match in Chicago & then have Fridge go over? * *In this universe the planned Bret Hart vs Ricky Steamboat match would have happened as well. Because the entire point of the battle royal was "NFL vs. WWF." That's how they hyped it--who's tougher, football players or wrestlers? It's completely self-defeating to put a football player over. If Andre's leaving to make a movie, that's even LESS reason to finagle an elimination for him if he's not going to have a program coming out of it. And Studd had another 6-7 months before he was gone, and in fact booker George Scott was beginning to book a babyface turn and feud with Bundy for him before he left and the angle got axed.
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Post by sungod2020 on Dec 24, 2020 21:07:51 GMT -5
TBH I was just messing when I thought of posting about the Fridge winning. The more I thought about, even before posting, convinced me it wasn't a bad idea. I mean why not give Andre a match in Chicago & then have Fridge go over? * *In this universe the planned Bret Hart vs Ricky Steamboat match would have happened as well. Because the entire point of the battle royal was "NFL vs. WWF." That's how they hyped it--who's tougher, football players or wrestlers? It's completely self-defeating to put a football player over. If Andre's leaving to make a movie, that's even LESS reason to finagle an elimination for him if he's not going to have a program coming out of it. And Studd had another 6-7 months before he was gone, and in fact booker George Scott was beginning to book a babyface turn and feud with Bundy for him before he left and the angle got axed. You can't deny the Chicago crowd would go nuts(in a good way), if he won the whole thing. He could even be in the final two(with Andre), and put up a helluva fight only to come up short. Either result would've been satisfying. Afterwards, they could've signed him to work a part-time/special attraction sort of deal. Have him work special occasions like Saturday Night's Main Event or The Big Event against someone like Big John Studd or King Kong Bundy. I'm sure the audience would've bought him as "one of the guys." It's not like the WWF/E hasn't put outsiders over before. 9 years afterwards, they had Lawrence Taylor go over Bam Bam Bigelow, and sometime in 2013, they had either a football or basketball player(I forgot who exactly) no sell hip tosses by Titus O'neil and The Miz, only to give it to them themselves. If there was money to be made, the WWF would have no problem putting The Fridge over their talent.
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 24, 2020 21:31:08 GMT -5
I can't see Andre allowing an NFL player to win the battle royal. The way it went down was the best way. Bret is probably the second most famous/popular wrestler after Andre. Bruno is probably third. Perry was famous at the time, sure, but how long did his football career last? He was literally the football version of Clara Peller that year. If he had been 100 pounds slimmer would people have even paid attention to him? Andre probably would have no showed in a heart beat if he was presented with the idea of a football player winning the battle royal, even if he wasn't the last one eliminated, and not much Vince McMahon could have done. Andre was worth more to him than Perry. Perry is a footnote in the NFL now, if even that.
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Post by britishbulldog on Dec 24, 2020 23:28:48 GMT -5
The Three Venue setup while unique was always a terrible idea. For multiple reasons... timing wise the technology wasn't really there for it so it lead to a bunch of glitches for instance. But two of the biggest reasons are as follows... no one goes to a big arena show to watch a screen. It's why the cinematic style matches work NOW but the times they've done similar stuff live have died a death. And tied into that... imagine being a Huge Randy Savage fans and getting tickets to Wrestlemania to see him wrestle... but you're in Chicago and he's in New York. You are paying way more money to get a worse experience than if you had just stayed home. Actually people did go to arenas to watch a screen. I have a soft spot for 2 as I went to a arena and watched it in closed circuit. The area was half full. We were a B or C market. But they came to town every 6 weeks. The main event was actually great from a story point. As was savage/Steele. Funks/tour and jyd was solid. Bulldogs and dream team was one of the best tag matches for years.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Dec 24, 2020 23:38:27 GMT -5
Because the entire point of the battle royal was "NFL vs. WWF." That's how they hyped it--who's tougher, football players or wrestlers? It's completely self-defeating to put a football player over. If Andre's leaving to make a movie, that's even LESS reason to finagle an elimination for him if he's not going to have a program coming out of it. And Studd had another 6-7 months before he was gone, and in fact booker George Scott was beginning to book a babyface turn and feud with Bundy for him before he left and the angle got axed. You can't deny the Chicago crowd would go nuts(in a good way), if he won the whole thing. Chicago was so rabid to see the Fridge in the wrestling ring that the Rosemont Horizon had a cozy 9,000 fans in an arena twice that size. You're also asking a lot for a football player with pretty much no wrestling training to work out a watchable sequence as one of the last two guys in a battle royal. It's not an accident that Russ Francis was the last NFL guy to go out--he was an actual part-time wrestler from a wrestling family.
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Post by lildude8218 on Dec 25, 2020 1:22:02 GMT -5
Best part of this show is when I realized Joan Rivers misread her card and thought the word "Cowboy" was "Comedy" so she adlibbed and threw in "Funny Man" as well and came up with an overlooked botch where she calls Bob Orton "The Ace Comedy, Funny Man, Bob Orvin"
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Post by sungod2020 on Dec 25, 2020 10:55:10 GMT -5
You can't deny the Chicago crowd would go nuts(in a good way), if he won the whole thing. Chicago was so rabid to see the Fridge in the wrestling ring that the Rosemont Horizon had a cozy 9,000 fans in an arena twice that size. You're also asking a lot for a football player with pretty much no wrestling training to work out a watchable sequence as one of the last two guys in a battle royal. It's not an accident that Russ Francis was the last NFL guy to go out--he was an actual part-time wrestler from a wrestling family. Did The Fridge(or any of the NFL players) have some pro wrestling training before the match in preparation for it? It's not like they'd have him go over the entire roster one-by-one or make him WWF champion(now THAT would be bad), it's just giving the Chicago fans a feel good moment, and if it works out, capitalize on his popularity at the time by hiring him for an extra appearance or two. If you want to protect the roster from being "buried" by a football player, you can have a popular wrestler(such as Junkyard Dog) mentor him in the build up to his advertised match, or even make it a tag match, where his tag partner does most of the work, and The Fridge ends up getting the pin after performing a shoulder tackle or something. All-in-all it would just be a publicity stunt that would make sense for the time frame.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Dec 25, 2020 12:47:09 GMT -5
I doubt very seriously that Coach Ditka and Bears GM Jerry Vanisi would have allowed the Fridge to do any more than he already did.
Chicago's feel-good moments came with Andre's victory as well as the Bulldogs' tag title victory. That's what you want the fans to leave feeling good about--wrestling.
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Dec 25, 2020 14:34:18 GMT -5
It's such such an unintentionally hilarious show. If there were ever a Mania that would be perfect for MST3K riffing, it's this one, thanks to all the gaffes and '80s camp and general cheesiness.
How can one, in earnest, resist commentary from the Uh Oh Queen herself, Susan Saint James?
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