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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 3, 2021 22:38:55 GMT -5
@kn you might want to jump in on this So yeah, let's talk about it. The black wrestler has evolved from the same old tired and racist shuck and jive character. For as much constraints and BS WWE has, for the black wrestlers they feel like they have a ton of freedom over what they do and how they are presented more so then ever before Bianca who has been as a rising star for years looks to be making good on that prediction. She became the 2nd Black person ever to win the Royal Rumble in its history Big E, the man everyone wants to change into a serious character because this silly shit will never work is doing it his own way. The Hurt Business could easily been some black gang BS but this is a group about they business dressing classy and willing to f*** people up on sight. You got acts like R-Truth who is still a fan favorite and always killing it in his role. Street Profits just had a low key historic combined tag title reign right behind New Day who have also been a big pioneer for change in how you are excepted as a black act Everyone is coming in their doing it their own way and it is great to see and i'm here for it
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 3, 2021 22:45:03 GMT -5
The black wrestlers have been the best thing obout WWE recently,top notches atheletes and charismatics
Man MVP himself would have EASILY been a mega star if WWE gave him the chance.
It also says how long they came ,when New Day themselves were a bad stereotype at first
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 3, 2021 23:01:40 GMT -5
The black wrestlers have been the best thing obout WWE recently,top notches atheletes and charismatics Man MVP himself would have EASILY been a mega star if WWE gave him the chance. It also says how long they came ,when New Day themselves were a bad stereotype at first And it took Vince to get his finger out his ass and listen to them for that to finally change
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 3, 2021 23:05:28 GMT -5
The black wrestlers have been the best thing obout WWE recently,top notches atheletes and charismatics Man MVP himself would have EASILY been a mega star if WWE gave him the chance. It also says how long they came ,when New Day themselves were a bad stereotype at first And it took Vince to get his finger out his ass and listen to them for that to finally change Turns out if you listen to African Americans you get positive and very successful African American Stars To be fair to Vince it does seem he learned from the New Day when it comes to that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2021 23:21:42 GMT -5
I'm glad this thread was made and it's like we said the other day, they've really changed what the idea of a "black wrestler" is in WWE. There was once a day where you'd have one black wrestler who stood out, possibly 2, the others were stereotypes whether that be the angry big mad guy or whatever. Now though things have changed and I'm heavily grateful for it. I'd say the change started with New Day and that continued with other superstars. They initially wanted them to be stereotypes but they fought against it to become one to the greatest tag teams and personalities in wrestling history. Then you had Sasha Banks and so on and so forth.
In all the years I've watched WWE I've never seen black talent be represented from all sides of the spectrum as today. Many different personalities, multiple segments dedicated to them, multiple looks and sizes, multiple champions and it's become so ingrained in WWE that it's seamless enough that sometimes it's easy to miss. I love it.
Shoutout to WWE for that as out of all the major promotions they do us the most justice.
You know, when I started watching wrestling again in 2011 there were only 2 black stars who were on TV. Heel Hall of Pain Mark Henry who was amazing and Ezekiel Jackson. As dope as Henry was, they had some similarities and some of those traits fit those stereotypes. Now however we have New Day, Hurt Business, Sasha Banks, Naomi, Keith Lee, R-Truth, Bianca Bel-Air, Street Profits, Swerve, just a lot to choose from. Most of these units break out of that classic stereotype and not only that, they break the mold.
It's amazing.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Feb 4, 2021 0:25:37 GMT -5
In terms of pushing African American superstars, WWE is way ahead of the curb, which is shocking to me, since they haven't been the most progressive company. Props to the New Day and Mark Henry's "Hall of Pain" run to help solidify African American wrestlers and shatter their ceilings in a top global company, to go higher than previously before.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Feb 4, 2021 2:02:29 GMT -5
To be fair, black wrestlers have always gotten a fair push in WWE as long as I was watching -
King Mable and Ahmed Johnson had the rocket strapped on them in 95 and 96 respectively, but it's not Vince's fault either fizzled out quick - especially when various podcasts confirm Johnson would have been in line for a World championship
The Rock became a megastar, and King Booker was entertaining and respectively pushed.
Mid card acts like D-Lo, Godfather and APA Faarooq were always popular and winning championships. Let's not get bent up that neither of these three got any higher up when Austin was at his peak.
I think the only miss was MVP but wasn't his push halted because of a heart issue?
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 4, 2021 2:13:03 GMT -5
To be fair, black wrestlers have always gotten a fair push in WWE as long as I was watching - King Mable and Ahmed Johnson had the rocket strapped on them in 95 and 96 respectively, but it's not Vince's fault either fizzled out quick - especially when various podcasts confirm Johnson would have been in line for a World championship The Rock became a megastar, and King Booker was entertaining and respectively pushed. Mid card acts like D-Lo, Godfather and APA Faarooq were always popular and winning championships. Let's not get bent up that neither of these three got any higher up when Austin was at his peak. I think the only miss was MVP but wasn't his push halted because of a heart issue? It isn't about the push per se it is about the freedom of choice they have gained over the last 10 years All those gimmicks you mentioned were stereotypes. Some by their own design and others by what was chosen for them. BUT now, you can clearly tell that they have more command of what they want as opposed to either being an angry black man, a militant, rap artst, or the worst term "athlete"
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 4, 2021 2:19:20 GMT -5
I'll take WWE to task for a lot of shit, and I stand behind it, but Bianca in particular is someone they are wisely seeing a huge ceiling for. The obstacle course really seemed to pick up attention outside of wrestling circles, and I do think her star can shine bright if they nurture it and don't screw this up.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Feb 4, 2021 2:35:07 GMT -5
To be fair, black wrestlers have always gotten a fair push in WWE as long as I was watching - King Mable and Ahmed Johnson had the rocket strapped on them in 95 and 96 respectively, but it's not Vince's fault either fizzled out quick - especially when various podcasts confirm Johnson would have been in line for a World championship The Rock became a megastar, and King Booker was entertaining and respectively pushed. Mid card acts like D-Lo, Godfather and APA Faarooq were always popular and winning championships. Let's not get bent up that neither of these three got any higher up when Austin was at his peak. I think the only miss was MVP but wasn't his push halted because of a heart issue? It isn't about the push per se it is about the freedom of choice they have gained over the last 10 years All those gimmicks you mentioned were stereotypes. Some by their own design and others by what was chosen for them. BUT now, you can clearly tell that they have more command of what they want as opposed to either being an angry black man, a militant, rap artst, or the worst term "athlete" That's true. But it feels like a cultural shift across the company. The grey area for me is most wrestlers were gimmick stereotypes - white hog farmers if you happened to be a wrestler from Arkansas, Samoan wild-men if you were from the A'naoi family, not just black wrestlers. Even Triple H was a stereotype rich white guy gimmick originally based off Vince's real life rich neighbours in Conneticut. Most giant wrestlers ended up becoming a dancing fool (Show, Khali) at some point. It was only the upper echelon of talent that could be something else other than a stereotype of some walk of life.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 4, 2021 2:48:54 GMT -5
It isn't about the push per se it is about the freedom of choice they have gained over the last 10 years All those gimmicks you mentioned were stereotypes. Some by their own design and others by what was chosen for them. BUT now, you can clearly tell that they have more command of what they want as opposed to either being an angry black man, a militant, rap artst, or the worst term "athlete" That's true. But it feels like a cultural shift across the company. The grey area for me is most wrestlers were gimmick stereotypes - white hog farmers if you happened to be a wrestler from Arkansas, Samoan wild-men if you were from the A'naoi family, not just black wrestlers. Even Triple H was a stereotype rich white guy gimmick originally based off Vince's real life rich neighbours in Conneticut. Most giant wrestlers ended up becoming a dancing fool (Show, Khali) at some point. It was only the upper echelon of talent that could be something else other than a stereotype of some walk of life. Def, everybody has their own stereotype but it hits diff when you're black Samoans even with their bad stereotypes have at least been able to jump on the backs of a diff gimmick albeit also racist as well but if they don't work one way, they change. Despite being Samoan, Rodney (Yokozuna) was able to flip to the Japanese gimmick. Rikishi is another one jumping through gimmicks because they could do that with him The color of our skin boxed us in two maybe 3 diff scenarios we can choose from. In the end, the thread is made more so to focus on Black History Month and the black wrestler success but their is def credence for a wider talk for how the industry has changed as a whole as Asian wrestlers had it just as bad as Black wrestlers and that mold didn't break until Shinsuke and Asuka (Jimmy Wang Yang withstanding)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2021 15:28:02 GMT -5
That's true. But it feels like a cultural shift across the company. The grey area for me is most wrestlers were gimmick stereotypes - white hog farmers if you happened to be a wrestler from Arkansas, Samoan wild-men if you were from the A'naoi family, not just black wrestlers. Even Triple H was a stereotype rich white guy gimmick originally based off Vince's real life rich neighbours in Conneticut. Most giant wrestlers ended up becoming a dancing fool (Show, Khali) at some point. It was only the upper echelon of talent that could be something else other than a stereotype of some walk of life. Def, everybody has their own stereotype but it hits diff when you're black Samoans even with their bad stereotypes have at least been able to jump on the backs of a diff gimmick albeit also racist as well but if they don't work one way, they change. Despite being Samoan, Rodney (Yokozuna) was able to flip to the Japanese gimmick. Rikishi is another one jumping through gimmicks because they could do that with him The color of our skin boxed us in two maybe 3 diff scenarios we can choose from. In the end, the thread is made more so to focus on Black History Month and the black wrestler success but their is def credence for a wider talk for how the industry has changed as a whole as Asian wrestlers had it just as bad as Black wrestlers and that mold didn't break until Shinsuke and Asuka (Jimmy Wang Yang withstanding) We've seen Samoans go from the bad stereotypes to "every single Samoan is a great wrestler who is mega-tough" which is mad dope. Asian wrestlers as well, they've done a great job changing the outdated script.
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Post by Slanted and Enchanted on Feb 4, 2021 16:01:40 GMT -5
Thanks for creating this thread Most of what I wanted to say has been covered so far, but I also want to give props to The New Day in terms of bringing authentic positivity to black characters in the WWE. I was concerned it would end up as another one-dimensional gimmick, but they resisted and created an act centered around legitimate brotherhood and true black joy. They were geeks, nerds, socially awkward, and they didn't worry about presenting themselves as hypermasculine or 'strong'. They were allowed to be themselves and that resonated with a fanbase far beyond young black men.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 4, 2021 16:27:17 GMT -5
Def, everybody has their own stereotype but it hits diff when you're black Samoans even with their bad stereotypes have at least been able to jump on the backs of a diff gimmick albeit also racist as well but if they don't work one way, they change. Despite being Samoan, Rodney (Yokozuna) was able to flip to the Japanese gimmick. Rikishi is another one jumping through gimmicks because they could do that with him The color of our skin boxed us in two maybe 3 diff scenarios we can choose from. In the end, the thread is made more so to focus on Black History Month and the black wrestler success but their is def credence for a wider talk for how the industry has changed as a whole as Asian wrestlers had it just as bad as Black wrestlers and that mold didn't break until Shinsuke and Asuka (Jimmy Wang Yang withstanding) We've seen Samoans go from the bad stereotypes to "every single Samoan is a great wrestler who is mega-tough" which is mad dope. Asian wrestlers as well, they've done a great job changing the outdated script. Yea, realistically Samons are essentially the cousins of the Black people when it comes to wrestling gimmicks. They couldn't speak English or really couldn't even rep their own heritage without it being full on racist like they can't speak English or is just straight savages. It's Kamala on steroids Shinsuke, Asuka and Io for that matter are just cool as hell people who happen to be Asian. They set the bar real high for any Asian person that comes into WWE because you have to bring a gimmick as well as being able to wrestle. WWE literally used to give them all the same "chopstick music" which is some BS
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Post by schiavonecuckscole on Feb 4, 2021 19:10:11 GMT -5
@kn you might want to jump in on this So yeah, let's talk about it. The black wrestler has evolved from the same old tired and racist shuck and jive character. As an old timer I have to throw a name out there. ERNIE LADD! That man was never anything close to your description. When Ernie Ladd was in that ring it wasnt some "jive black guy" it was 1 Asskicking No Names Taking Man to not be messed with. When you saw Ladd you saw 1 of the few men in his day that could be taken seriously in a match vs Andre The Giant.
Sadly I think Ladd has been mostly forgotten to the new generations except for the maybe once a year Black History Segment that wwf/e would do on him.
Ladd should get credit for not being that stereotype & being a 2 Sport Star crossing over from Pro Football to Wrestling.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 4, 2021 19:18:29 GMT -5
@kn you might want to jump in on this So yeah, let's talk about it. The black wrestler has evolved from the same old tired and racist shuck and jive character. As an old timer I have to throw a name out there. ERNIE LADD! That man was never anything close to your description. When Ernie Ladd was in that ring it wasnt some "jive black guy" it was 1 Asskicking No Names Taking Man to not be messed with. When you saw Ladd you saw 1 of the few men in his day that could be taken seriously in a match vs Andre The Giant.
Sadly I think Ladd has been mostly forgotten to the new generations except for the maybe once a year Black History Segment that wwf/e would do on him.
Ladd should get credit for not being that stereotype & being a 2 Sport Star crossing over from Pro Football to Wrestling.
But once again, we talking one black name compared to however many other people in that era. You can pick out a name but it wasn't universal for everyone. Ernie Ladd is indeed a legend In WWE, for the last few years a Black wrestler can come in and be what they want to be. We are talking about the mold being broken as opposed to only a few names being able to shatter that ceiling
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Post by schiavonecuckscole on Feb 4, 2021 19:20:45 GMT -5
I'll take WWE to task for a lot of shit, and I stand behind it, but Bianca in particular is someone they are wisely seeing a huge ceiling for. The obstacle course really seemed to pick up attention outside of wrestling circles, and I do think her star can shine bright if they nurture it and don't screw this up. HELLO! LOL!
I can attest to that but Inside of Wrestling Circles.
For the most part I have had no interest in the wwe womens division. Just my thing. I have been a long time fan of womens wrestling so its not a sexist thing. I just dont connect with most of the wwe women & when I do the ones I do seem missued or just on the same lazy writing to make me not care.
Bianca was another Fast Forward time for me UNTIL the obstacle Course. I already had my attention when Bayley Carried Gable.
When Bianca carried OTIS on her back Not only did she make my back Hurt from the weight ( Yes I said Made MY back Hurt ) She made me hit the rewind button 10 Times No Exaggeration.
That single course took me from not caring to having me in person & on this board during the Rumble saying BE FAIR TO BELAIR when she came out at #3. My girl was mad saying she had no chance coming out at 3 & I kept saying Its the Flair Treatment. More Ironic that I just had her watch the Flair Rumble earlier that week as I hold that up as The Greatest Rumble & the 1 Must Watch if you only can watch 1.
I kept doing my best Bobby Heenan Impression BE FAIR TO BELAIR till she won.
All because of that Course!
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Feb 4, 2021 19:41:00 GMT -5
Going to give a little credit to Ron Simmons and WCW during his run as the first black heavyweight champion, when he was giving motivational speeches to kids and stuff as well. That was probably the first time that a black guy had been portrayed like that as a complete hero to the youth.
Kind of strangely it seems like the 80s and 90s was the worst time for them to get those bad gimmicks(rapper, thug, pure athlete, militant, etc.) as way back in the territory days you had guys like Bobo Brazil, Sailor Art Thomas, and Ernie Ladd all drawing good gates despite segregation in a lot of arenas and so forth.
Anyways, the WWE is always on some other bullshit, but at least they’re finally understanding the importance of diversity and inclusiveness throughout the roster and cards.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 4, 2021 20:57:44 GMT -5
@kn you might want to jump in on this So yeah, let's talk about it. The black wrestler has evolved from the same old tired and racist shuck and jive character. As an old timer I have to throw a name out there. ERNIE LADD! That man was never anything close to your description. When Ernie Ladd was in that ring it wasnt some "jive black guy" it was 1 Asskicking No Names Taking Man to not be messed with. When you saw Ladd you saw 1 of the few men in his day that could be taken seriously in a match vs Andre The Giant.
Sadly I think Ladd has been mostly forgotten to the new generations except for the maybe once a year Black History Segment that wwf/e would do on him. Ladd should get credit for not being that stereotype & being a 2 Sport Star crossing over from Pro Football to Wrestling.
I don't even remember the context, but there was some old Superstars episode from the 70s with Vince trying to interview Ladd, and Vince is getting nowhere because Ernie's constantly all "whataya gonna do about it, mister TV announcer, huh?" It's the funniest thing ever.
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Post by schiavonecuckscole on Feb 4, 2021 21:27:54 GMT -5
As an old timer I have to throw a name out there. ERNIE LADD! That man was never anything close to your description. When Ernie Ladd was in that ring it wasnt some "jive black guy" it was 1 Asskicking No Names Taking Man to not be messed with. When you saw Ladd you saw 1 of the few men in his day that could be taken seriously in a match vs Andre The Giant.
Sadly I think Ladd has been mostly forgotten to the new generations except for the maybe once a year Black History Segment that wwf/e would do on him.
Ladd should get credit for not being that stereotype & being a 2 Sport Star crossing over from Pro Football to Wrestling.
But once again, we talking one black name compared to however many other people in that era. You can pick out a name but it wasn't universal for everyone. Ernie Ladd is indeed a legend In WWE, for the last few years a Black wrestler can come in and be what they want to be. We are talking about the mold being broken as opposed to only a few names being able to shatter that ceiling Not saying compared to the amount of stereotypes that were out there. But had to get Ernie Ladd's name out there as sadly he is mostly forgotten & he was a trailblazer as a Black Man that didnt have to be a stereotype. Also for many of us not a " Black Wrestler" just a "Damm Good Wrestler"
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