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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2021 21:47:29 GMT -5
Might be time for Drew Mac to switch brands? Being the dude to end two big bad heel title runs within a span of two years would be a big credibility booster. Drew needs a change of scenery in the worst way. He's starting to become boring again because there's just nothing left for him to do on Raw. But you know he'll be on Raw tomorrow acting like he's entitled to another title shot.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2021 21:48:51 GMT -5
Hell in a Cell's now in June so the question is...what the Reigns match will be. Money in the Bank is in July and Summerslam is in August. Apparently fans will be at MITB too. I would say Nakamura but do people really wanna see Nakamura killed especially as he is now he seems to be recovering from his years of just treated like trash idk because it will do nothing to change the perception that SD is just the land of misery where Roman just bowls through all the babyfaces. Yeah that wouldn't make sense if it were him. Cesaro lost clean, no reason for him to get a HIAC match. Maybe it'll be Edge returning. If not Edge then maybe Jimmy so he can get his shot? I don't know. For all we know Reigns won't even get a cell match.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2021 21:50:16 GMT -5
I would say Nakamura but do people really wanna see Nakamura killed especially as he is now he seems to be recovering from his years of just treated like trash idk because it will do nothing to change the perception that SD is just the land of misery where Roman just bowls through all the babyfaces. Yeah that wouldn't make sense if it were him. Cesaro lost clean, no reason for him to get a HIAC match. Maybe it'll be Edge returning. If not Edge then maybe Jimmy so he can get his shot? I don't know. For all we know Reigns won't even get a cell match. Yea I do not think he is gonna wrestle on that show I think it is setting up the Uce bros against one another with Roman fanning that flame. And then maybe one of them winning the MITB the following month.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 16, 2021 21:50:49 GMT -5
See I think that's the problem though; that's the least interesting possible character to be running with. Roman is not some cold, numb powerbeast who only craves violence. He's an unstable, vain egomaniac whose cool control is all a massive front he's putting on. Just earlier in the show, he sent his goon to the back for implying there was a chance Cesaro might have him and that he'd need to interfere. That should have been foreshadowing for Roman almost getting caught and him being pissed over it. The comeuppance people wanted was pretty expressly for an opponent to take give him such a fight that the cracks showed more blatantly, and when he immediately goes into 'Yeah I'm such a badass and don't feel anything' mode right after the match, it represents the failure on Cesaro's part to give him that kind of challenge. In a way it's not about the match result at that point; Cesaro losing but undermining Roman in the process is still a kind of victory. This is true in just about any form of media ever unless you're trying to make an artistic statement with it, but "Guy who doesn't let anything effect him emotionally" is a trash character. IMO, they should've gone with the angle of the Swing being the most potent weapon in Cesaro's arsenal and Roman desperately trying to avoid getting caught in it. Which leads to him getting Swung around and therefore bruising his ego. In any even remotely well written company, that would be the case. Cesaro would try to work Roman into the swing and we'd have spots where Roman has to fight his way out of position multiple times. Have him gut kick Cesaro, have him hold onto the ropes, have him do anything to avoid being put into the swing and avoid being humiliated. That's a thing that happens in wrestling when matches are meant to tell a story; the psychology focuses around respective moves that people want to be in a better position to hit, and their opponent does anything possible to avoid them. But this is WWE, where matches aren't supposed to tell a story and every match is all the same shit every time, so it gets ignored entirely and they don't even consider having Cesaro shake his confidence by putting him into that move.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on May 16, 2021 21:52:33 GMT -5
IMO, they should've gone with the angle of the Swing being the most potent weapon in Cesaro's arsenal and Roman desperately trying to avoid getting caught in it. Which leads to him getting Swung around and therefore bruising his ego. In any even remotely well written company, that would be the case. Cesaro would try to work Roman into the swing and we'd have spots where Roman has to fight his way out of position multiple times. Have him gut kick Cesaro, have him hold onto the ropes, have him do anything to avoid being put into the swing and avoid being humiliated. That's a thing that happens in wrestling when matches are meant to tell a story; the psychology focuses around respective moves that people want to be in a better position to hit, and their opponent does anything possible to avoid them. But this is WWE, where matches aren't supposed to tell a story and every match is all the same shit every time, so it gets ignored entirely and they don't even consider having Cesaro shake his confidence by putting him into that move. Like, it would've been an interesting twist where Roman wins, but he's still pissed that he got caught in the Swing, as it cracks the facade of him being "the Head of the Table". (Think a coach unhappy that his team allowed points in a big blowout win).
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 16, 2021 22:01:24 GMT -5
In any even remotely well written company, that would be the case. Cesaro would try to work Roman into the swing and we'd have spots where Roman has to fight his way out of position multiple times. Have him gut kick Cesaro, have him hold onto the ropes, have him do anything to avoid being put into the swing and avoid being humiliated. That's a thing that happens in wrestling when matches are meant to tell a story; the psychology focuses around respective moves that people want to be in a better position to hit, and their opponent does anything possible to avoid them. But this is WWE, where matches aren't supposed to tell a story and every match is all the same shit every time, so it gets ignored entirely and they don't even consider having Cesaro shake his confidence by putting him into that move. Like, it would've been an interesting twist where Roman wins, but he's still pissed that he got caught in the Swing, as it cracks the facade of him being "the Head of the Table". (Think a coach unhappy that his team allowed points in a big blowout win). That 100% should have been the story, and I'd say the absence of it stands as one of the most sloppy and blatant oversights in this whole mess. Things happen arbitrarily and mean nothing. This is the sort of thing you'd be told to fix on a first draft rewrite if your beta reader was five years old.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on May 16, 2021 23:57:38 GMT -5
Hell in a Cell's now in June so the question is...what the Reigns match will be. Money in the Bank is in July and Summerslam is in August. Apparently fans will be at MITB too. I would say Nakamura but do people really wanna see Nakamura killed especially as he is now he seems to be recovering from his years of just treated like trash idk because it will do nothing to change the perception that SD is just the land of misery where Roman just bowls through all the babyfaces. Shinsuke is absolutely on deck to be demolished by Reigns lol
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on May 17, 2021 1:45:39 GMT -5
Roman is just gonna keep winning until until the next superpushed face of the company comes a long.
Or they need an old timer for the Saudi show.
and repeat forever
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Post by Hit Girl on May 17, 2021 1:59:20 GMT -5
Reign will never be accepted as the top guy. They've been trying for years. The casual audience bailed long ago and the hardcore audience is all they've got left, and they are even less likely to accept him.
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Post by Edge of Insanity on May 17, 2021 2:56:48 GMT -5
Ya, i dont really see who the next challenger is going to be.
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msc
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Post by msc on May 17, 2021 5:05:32 GMT -5
Two PPVs till Summerslam. So two Reigns filler matches till Big E.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 17, 2021 5:16:45 GMT -5
I would say Nakamura but do people really wanna see Nakamura killed especially as he is now he seems to be recovering from his years of just treated like trash idk because it will do nothing to change the perception that SD is just the land of misery where Roman just bowls through all the babyfaces. Yeah that wouldn't make sense if it were him. Cesaro lost clean, no reason for him to get a HIAC match. Maybe it'll be Edge returning. If not Edge then maybe Jimmy so he can get his shot? I don't know. For all we know Reigns won't even get a cell match. Bring back the family drama Do Jimmy vs Roman at HIAC. Jey has to choose between his brother or his family and being the right hand man. Would lead perfect into a Big E Summerslam feud
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Post by CeilingFan on May 17, 2021 5:50:53 GMT -5
SummerSlam needs to be the coronation of Big E.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 17, 2021 6:13:49 GMT -5
I’ve always said the problem is lack of balance. Ironic in a company that loves the 50/50, but it’s true. It’s either dominant heels putting away challengers cleanly or cowardly heels escaping through the usual tropes (which, yeah, the point is to make you mad, but still), or babyfaces easily dropping the heels without breaking so much as a sweat, which also gets old fast. Yeah, they're too focused on "how do we book a finish to this particular match in this particular moment?" and not "what's the larger, overarching story we're trying to tell here?" That latter question is especially important when you're booking a long term title reign, and even MORE important when it's a heel title reign, as those have a potential to drive fans or viewers away if they feel they're caught in, as this thread says, "misery booking". Like, what's the endgame for Roman, here? Is it that he puts Big E over at SummerSlam? If so, what journey does Roman take to get to that point? What story beats happen, what revelations are made, what changes occur over his long title run that get him to the point where Big E has a real chance to dethrone him? Those are the things you need to consider well before you get to SummerSlam, especially if he's going to be champion for this long; otherwise, the matches are all basically the same and don't serve any bigger purpose beyond "Roman won again". Again, this is why lengthy babyface or tweener title reigns can be a bit easier to work with: people want to see the babyface champ win (Hogan), or want to see them outsmart/outwork their opponents and reveal hidden depths in the process (Moxley), or want to see if they'll achieve records that signify their standing as an all-time great (Okada), etc. Each defense contributes to that overall story, ideally. Long term heel reigns can work, too, but there has to be a story to them and there has to be a message to fans of "this is leading somewhere". Otherwise you risk doing something like, I dunno, having Thanos snap half of existence away in Infinity War, but instead of going into Endgame and setting up his demise you instead have another movie or two that's just Thanos doing his farming or whatever because, y'know, he won. Like, you COULD do multiple movies between "villain wins" and "villain falls", but you have to be showing your audience "this is HOW the villain will eventually fall, so hang tight, it's bleak now, but it'll get better." Again, WWE's always too obsessed with in the moment booking, the 50/50 mentality, not letting anyone "lose heat", etc., but they're really, really not invested in telling stories with A to B to C progression, and haven't been in well over a dog's age.
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Post by Mozenrath on May 17, 2021 6:17:25 GMT -5
Reign will never be accepted as the top guy. They've been trying for years. The casual audience bailed long ago and the hardcore audience is all they've got left, and they are even less likely to accept him. Eh, that's like the opposite of their problem right now. Reigns is actually a good heel and plenty credible, but the problem is that they have done a really awful job of giving him any credible top faces since WWE is just really, really spotty at face booking.
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Post by Ben Wyatt on May 17, 2021 6:53:55 GMT -5
They need to pull the trigger at Summerslam, otherwise, they're repeating the mistake with pretty much all of Brock's reigns
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on May 17, 2021 6:56:31 GMT -5
Reign will never be accepted as the top guy. They've been trying for years. The casual audience bailed long ago and the hardcore audience is all they've got left, and they are even less likely to accept him. Eh, that's like the opposite of their problem right now. Reigns is actually a good heel and plenty credible, but the problem is that they have done a really awful job of giving him any credible top faces since WWE is just really, really spotty at face booking. I’ve always found it weird that a company that prides itself on their fans and making them happy is largely booked so that the people fans want to cheer for tend to look like losers.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on May 17, 2021 7:20:11 GMT -5
I thought the match was great and Cesaro looked like a million bucks. However I did turn it off before the post match shenanigans.
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knightboat
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Post by knightboat on May 17, 2021 7:21:52 GMT -5
Seth's fighting Roman at some point after they longingly looked into each other's eyes tonight. Maybe that's Money In The Bank?
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on May 17, 2021 7:32:23 GMT -5
Seth's fighting Roman at some point after they longingly looked into each other's eyes tonight. Maybe that's Money In The Bank? I saw someone on r/squared circle say Rollins is going to try to pull a Loki on Reigns, but he's forgetting that Reigns is Thanos.
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