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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 19, 2021 11:47:24 GMT -5
Well, on the other side they never booked him like a top guy and it didn't make for anything interesting either I do wish more promoters would take the Gedo/Okada approach of this is my guy and i'm riding this momentum until the wheels fall off. I don't want Roman on a 3 year title reign tho and I have stated that I believe he will drop the title at Summerslam If he still holds the title after Summerslam I will be a little salty I was bored of that reign too. Albeit mostly because they killed Naito twice for it, and I swear he had about 5 matches in a row that had the exact same finish Okada for that first year and a half was on a whole diff level but then he just kept repeating even if his matches were still top notch. He could lost the title a few times and one can only wonder if Shibata would been champ at some point if not for the brain injury While I praise Gedo level of sticking by his mans, he also pisses me off with his payoffs coming a year after the fact. Naito should have won the title at WK NO QUESTIONS ASKED!!!
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 19, 2021 11:52:34 GMT -5
If you don’t create a tier where there are megastars that are kayfabe above the others, you get that 50/50 booking where everyone is similar and no one is a huge star, unless they have such magnetic charisma that they are undeniable, like a Rock, Austin, Taker who didn’t necessarily always have the belt (although Austin and Taker very rarely would job clean). Why do you think Roman, Brock, Cena feel more like big stars than say other main eventers that didn’t get as strong of booking like Owens and Rollins? I’d say a large part of that is the booking of them so strongly. Now some may believe in a different mindset in booking where it’s more like we have 8 equal main eventers and they trade wins and the belt back and forth. That can work for a while but then I feel like you miss out on creating that legendary/megastar type figure. Because if a company makes only one guy look more important than all the others and he gets injured, then they have to scramble to suddenly re-build the wrestlers who had already lost to the injured megastar. Booking where a promotion puts its eggs in one basket is not sustainable long-term. See I don’t think that’s accurate, because I don’t think the rest of the roster remaining would be in a worse position when the alpha gets hurt than they would if you do that spread out 50/50 booking with 8 main eventers. When you do it the latter way, none of them feel special in my opinion. And booking a promotion with all their eggs in one basket is exactly how WWE has done things for a large majority of the time and the promotion has certainly been sustainable long-term.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jun 19, 2021 12:06:38 GMT -5
I was bored of that reign too. Albeit mostly because they killed Naito twice for it, and I swear he had about 5 matches in a row that had the exact same finish Okada for that first year and a half was on a whole diff level but then he just kept repeating even if his matches were still top notch. He could lost the title a few times and one can only wonder if Shibata would been champ at some point if not for the brain injury While I praise Gedo level of sticking by his mans, he also pisses me off with his payoffs coming a year after the fact. Naito should have won the title at WK NO QUESTIONS ASKED!!! I think one of Okada's main strengths is the call-back booking of follow up matches he has with people, where one of them learns from the mistakes they made before, and comes in with a great game plan. Unfortunately, that long reign to my memory seemed to mostly be "here's a new challenger, I'm surviving all his best shots, doing the same German into Rainmaker finish and then never facing him again." I'm just glad they at least had the decency to not have him kick out of One Winged Angel in that G1 match.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Jun 19, 2021 12:27:07 GMT -5
All of the most successful wrestling shows and programs have *some* sort of babyface lean. What I mean by that is, when you go back and watch something like 80s NWA with Flair and the Horsemen on top, so many of those shows were booked through Dusty's or Sting's or Luger's perspective as the heroes, driving Flair nuts and he'd sell for them. It does sorta go the same way with making sure your face on top can make the heel challenger look somewhat strong, but you can't make money with a heel running roughshod and no opposition.
Your babyface can chase, but they still need to feel like they're the man. Austin didn't have any super-long reigns as champ, but when Vince was scheming and keeping him from the belt, Austin was always humiliating Vince. Edge and Cena made money because while Edge was strong, he was still a scumbag weasel, and John always frustrated him and made him pull his hair out regardless which guy was champion at the time. The fans love seeing the hero win little battles, even if the war isn't over.
Roman doesn't have a successful consistent foil, which was the issue with Hunter and the Reign of Terror in 2003 (and was also possibly a problem with Brock as champion in later years, despite the name-value he brings). He was "the guy who works with the big draws", but that's a very important role to play. The reason he has the all-time Wrestlemania loss record is because that's the role of the final boss in the end, to fall to the hero. Terry Bogard always knocks Geese Howard off the building, and HHH for a while was WWE's Geese. And in promotions like NJPW and AEW, Okada, Ibushi and Tanahashi are an ever-present threat to Bullet Club, and Inner Circle and Moxley/Kingston are always in the Elite and Pinnacle's faces.
Who's always in Roman's face that doesn't get inevitably demolished? WWE needs to start grooming whoever is going to be the next Smackdown champion as someone who Roman consistently can't figure out.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jun 19, 2021 12:43:12 GMT -5
Your babyface can chase, but they still need to feel like they're the man. Austin didn't have any super-long reigns as champ, but when Vince was scheming and keeping him from the belt, Austin was always humiliating Vince. Edge and Cena made money because while Edge was strong, he was still a scumbag weasel, and John always frustrated him and made him pull his hair out regardless which guy was champion at the time. The fans love seeing the hero win little battles, even if the war isn't over. Even then, when the babyface lost, it meant something because they were on top for so long. The rare times Vince won, it meant something because his schemes always flopped before then. When Edge or whoever got an advantage, it meant something because Cena was on top. Hell, you look at how big a deal Earthquake became because he took down Hulk Hogan, someone who overcame odds from heels who wanted blood. Like, the problem with the other way around, it's like..."Ok, the bad guy has the cards all the time and no good guy can touch him on their best day so...whatever".
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 76,592
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Post by Chiral on Jun 19, 2021 12:45:23 GMT -5
I enjoy title runs like this where someone is being established as an alpha. This is how you create legendary stars like Hogan, Cena, Lesnar, etc. Has Roman really been booked that strong as some in this thread are saying? He’s needed to cheat to win multiple times. He’s had setbacks on weekly TV from his cousins, from Cesaro, from Owens and from Bryan (maybe Edge stood tall one episode to, I can’t remember). I wouldn’t mind that short Luger run before they get to the ultimate dethroning, but not sure they’ll go that route unless it’s with a MITB cash in and then Roman regaining the title at the following PPV. I think there’s still plenty of feuds for Roman as well, with Cena, Rock, Lesnar, Drew if he gets traded over, face Rollins, Jimmy, Bálor when he comes back up, and Big E and Keith Lee when they’re ready to rocket ship them to the top. He was more vulnerable at the start but still was winning everything, at some point they dropped all his mental cracks showing and just made him cool villain guy. Literally WHAT narrative setbacks has he faced? What part of this actually made him show fear in the last few months, or even slightly got him off his game? When his Pearce match got changed he just beat up Pearce then won against Owens again. He just laughs off his opponents in promos now AND wins clean since they presumably realized Jey saving his ass every time was getting too much. But then they didn't give him any weakness so now he's even more invincible.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,552
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Jun 19, 2021 13:09:39 GMT -5
Hopefully he can lose A match so someone else can be linear champion
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Post by 06vwgti on Jun 19, 2021 13:17:24 GMT -5
I enjoy title runs like this where someone is being established as an alpha. This is how you create legendary stars like Hogan, Cena, Lesnar, etc. Has Roman really been booked that strong as some in this thread are saying? He’s needed to cheat to win multiple times. He’s had setbacks on weekly TV from his cousins, from Cesaro, from Owens and from Bryan (maybe Edge stood tall one episode to, I can’t remember). I wouldn’t mind that short Luger run before they get to the ultimate dethroning, but not sure they’ll go that route unless it’s with a MITB cash in and then Roman regaining the title at the following PPV. I think there’s still plenty of feuds for Roman as well, with Cena, Rock, Lesnar, Drew if he gets traded over, face Rollins, Jimmy, Bálor when he comes back up, and Big E and Keith Lee when they’re ready to rocket ship them to the top. He was more vulnerable at the start but still was winning everything, at some point they dropped all his mental cracks showing and just made him cool villain guy. Literally WHAT narrative setbacks has he faced? What part of this actually made him show fear in the last few months, or even slightly got him off his game? When his Pearce match got changed he just beat up Pearce then won against Owens again. He just laughs off his opponents in promos now AND wins clean since they presumably realized Jey saving his ass every time was getting too much. But then they didn't give him any weakness so now he's even more invincible. He doesn't even show any post match vulnerability either, I'll gladly take a face doing something goofy to embarrass him at this point, ala New Day goofiness on SRS Roman
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2021 16:05:55 GMT -5
Another thing is I really don't see a reason to give the slightest semblance of a f*** about this Usos storyline. They're not on his level, it's been firmly established that they're not on his level, neither of them is going to be the one to take the title from him, so why is family drama the entire focal point of SmackDown right now?
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Jun 19, 2021 16:19:00 GMT -5
He was more vulnerable at the start but still was winning everything, at some point they dropped all his mental cracks showing and just made him cool villain guy. Literally WHAT narrative setbacks has he faced? What part of this actually made him show fear in the last few months, or even slightly got him off his game? When his Pearce match got changed he just beat up Pearce then won against Owens again. He just laughs off his opponents in promos now AND wins clean since they presumably realized Jey saving his ass every time was getting too much. But then they didn't give him any weakness so now he's even more invincible. He doesn't even show any post match vulnerability either, I'll gladly take a face doing something goofy to embarrass him at this point, ala New Day goofiness on SRS Roman Big E getting under Roman’s skin just by being Big E would be amazing… if they commit to it.
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Post by Hypnosis on Jun 19, 2021 16:51:52 GMT -5
He doesn't even show any post match vulnerability either, I'll gladly take a face doing something goofy to embarrass him at this point, ala New Day goofiness on SRS Roman Big E getting under Roman’s skin just by being Big E would be amazing… if they commit to it. They need to get Big E away from APOLLOOOOOO and Commandah AZEEEEZ first.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Jun 19, 2021 17:27:40 GMT -5
While I do feel Roman’s been built up pretty well, and there are times the champion has to be able to take people out just to show they’re legit and wear the belt for good reason, they can still stand to let him get embarrassed a little bit. As many bodies Hunter left in his wake, he did have a fair amount of moments as a heel where he looked like a fool, like getting thrown into a cake one week or Scott Steiner stripping his suit a la Ric in the 80s. And I never saw Ric as unlegitamite,even with his flopping and begging off-eye poke, he felt more like a capable but cocky champion who’s underestimated his opponent. Roman doesn’t need to start begging, but a few more moments where he looks on the edge of losing, desperate to hold onto his title, or having a babyface clown on him somehow and leave him fuming and angry would help him get more heat. He needs a Cena to his Edge, a Rock to his Kurt Angle. If Big E wasn't seemingly permanently relegated to IC Title feuding with Apollo & Azeez, I'd just do it already and make him Roman's biggest threat.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,822
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jun 19, 2021 17:32:05 GMT -5
I think Cesaro can pull off a helluva feud with Reigns.
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Dub H
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Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Post by Dub H on Jun 19, 2021 18:18:21 GMT -5
I enjoy title runs like this where someone is being established as an alpha. This is how you create legendary stars like Hogan, Cena, Lesnar, etc. Has Roman really been booked that strong as some in this thread are saying? He’s needed to cheat to win multiple times. He’s had setbacks on weekly TV from his cousins, from Cesaro, from Owens and from Bryan (maybe Edge stood tall one episode to, I can’t remember). I wouldn’t mind that short Luger run before they get to the ultimate dethroning, but not sure they’ll go that route unless it’s with a MITB cash in and then Roman regaining the title at the following PPV. I think there’s still plenty of feuds for Roman as well, with Cena, Rock, Lesnar, Drew if he gets traded over, face Rollins, Jimmy, Bálor when he comes back up, and Big E and Keith Lee when they’re ready to rocket ship them to the top. He was more vulnerable at the start but still was winning everything, at some point they dropped all his mental cracks showing and just made him cool villain guy. Literally WHAT narrative setbacks has he faced? What part of this actually made him show fear in the last few months, or even slightly got him off his game? When his Pearce match got changed he just beat up Pearce then won against Owens again. He just laughs off his opponents in promos now AND wins clean since they presumably realized Jey saving his ass every time was getting too much. But then they didn't give him any weakness so now he's even more invincible. See im just saying if maybe I had an entire tv show revolve around me for 5 year and never looked weak maybe I would be considered one of the best wrestlers ever . Obvioisly exaggeration but they are obviously still going hard with the god Roman figure even as a heel. The end game is always putting roman over.
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Post by sarkerpolseng on Jun 19, 2021 18:27:36 GMT -5
Broad statement here: I would rate Roman's booking close to an A+. I love it
Roman Reigns is must see TV right now. From his promos to his matches.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Jun 19, 2021 18:47:53 GMT -5
Roman acts confident and gets challenged, Roman beats them in a match, Roman beats them down afterwards.
That's his booking. WWE is obsessed with having one star and it kills the show because it means that everyone else is a geek that doesn't matter. Let Roman have ocassional tag matches that he loses because he's not a tag team wrestler and is an egomaniac.
Let him face a setback for once. He dominates on a week to week basis and then wins at the PPV.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Jun 19, 2021 18:50:24 GMT -5
But he already is a star. You can't make a Cena, Hogan, Rock, Austin, et al. It has to happen naturally. Here is my question, why does there have to just be one megastar and a bunch of bit players? It seems like their m.o is to pick one of the lower guys, give them a sudden push to justify a title opportunity, and then they get pummeled and forgotten about again. If you don’t create a tier where there are megastars that are kayfabe above the others, you get that 50/50 booking where everyone is similar and no one is a huge star, unless they have such magnetic charisma that they are undeniable, like a Rock, Austin, Taker who didn’t necessarily always have the belt (although Austin and Taker very rarely would job clean). Why do you think Roman, Brock, Cena feel more like big stars than say other main eventers that didn’t get as strong of booking like Owens and Rollins? I’d say a large part of that is the booking of them so strongly. Now some may believe in a different mindset in booking where it’s more like we have 8 equal main eventers and they trade wins and the belt back and forth. That can work for a while but then I feel like you miss out on creating that legendary/megastar type figure. Okay but there's a difference between making someone look strong and making your heel champion look invincible and face no setbacks.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 19, 2021 19:00:17 GMT -5
If you don’t create a tier where there are megastars that are kayfabe above the others, you get that 50/50 booking where everyone is similar and no one is a huge star, unless they have such magnetic charisma that they are undeniable, like a Rock, Austin, Taker who didn’t necessarily always have the belt (although Austin and Taker very rarely would job clean). Why do you think Roman, Brock, Cena feel more like big stars than say other main eventers that didn’t get as strong of booking like Owens and Rollins? I’d say a large part of that is the booking of them so strongly. Now some may believe in a different mindset in booking where it’s more like we have 8 equal main eventers and they trade wins and the belt back and forth. That can work for a while but then I feel like you miss out on creating that legendary/megastar type figure. Okay but there's a difference between making someone look strong and making your heel champion look invincible and face no setbacks. How many times has he cheated/had Jey run interference to win? He is in no way invincible. I just don’t think that’s an accurate portrayal of what’s been going on.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Jun 19, 2021 19:01:03 GMT -5
If you don’t create a tier where there are megastars that are kayfabe above the others, you get that 50/50 booking where everyone is similar and no one is a huge star, unless they have such magnetic charisma that they are undeniable, like a Rock, Austin, Taker who didn’t necessarily always have the belt (although Austin and Taker very rarely would job clean). Why do you think Roman, Brock, Cena feel more like big stars than say other main eventers that didn’t get as strong of booking like Owens and Rollins? I’d say a large part of that is the booking of them so strongly. Now some may believe in a different mindset in booking where it’s more like we have 8 equal main eventers and they trade wins and the belt back and forth. That can work for a while but then I feel like you miss out on creating that legendary/megastar type figure. Okay but there's a difference between making someone look strong and making your heel champion look invincible and face no setbacks. It’s why the nWo eventually went stale. It’s why 2003 Champion Triple H went stale. It’s why the Authority sucked. Nobody wants to watch a show where the bad guy wins all the time and never has any resistance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2021 19:05:42 GMT -5
A villan is only as good as their hero.
But there is no hero so there is no point to this title reign.
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