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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on May 23, 2022 15:27:20 GMT -5
It is interesting that Meltzer mentioned on Observer Radio that Roman was getting cheered over Drew in London. I think the split in September could still favor Drew but I do think Roman has reached the point of being over as a cool heel since all he does is win and fans love winners. Drew is cool and has his fans but I don't think it's going to be anything close to a Goldberg/Hogan in Atlanta situation. The fact that Roman is over is another reason that I don’t really buy into it being complete misery booking. He gets cheered a lot, especially in certain cities. The crowds aren’t usually majorly upset that he’s winning big matches. I think they were more upset when he was a face and winning. This is exactly the plan. Dominant heels often get cheered because who else are we gonna cheer, these loser faces who always lose? They finally, finally get their megaface top star Reigns run. (it won't work)
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,470
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Post by Dub H on May 23, 2022 15:45:53 GMT -5
I mean after 8 years of only Roman, if you dont like Roman why are you even watching?
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thehottag
Don Corleone
We're here for one reason only: fame, fortune, & the World Wrestling Federation Tag Team Champions!
Posts: 1,668
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Post by thehottag on May 23, 2022 15:54:48 GMT -5
WWE must be totally confused why fans are cheering someone who always wins considering 'wins & losses don't matter'. It's almost like the two things are connected & people like getting behind a winner.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,891
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Post by khali on May 23, 2022 17:11:58 GMT -5
This is a reason people don't take SRS well... serious. Because he enjoyed it? I thought that was a great main event with a hot crowd. And helps set up the next two challengers to Roman (if reports are true). Yeah, that’s all well and good that it set up challengers, but why should I care? Part of the reason why every Roman title match is so uninteresting is that the results are a foregone conclusion. Where’s the drama, this many months upon months into domination? An emotional investment in who could possibly win matters. A predictable outcome can still be good with a clear endgame. We’re getting predictable results with no endgame in sight.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 23, 2022 19:18:08 GMT -5
Because he enjoyed it? I thought that was a great main event with a hot crowd. And helps set up the next two challengers to Roman (if reports are true). Yeah, that’s all well and good that it set up challengers, but why should I care? Part of the reason why every Roman title match is so uninteresting is that the results are a foregone conclusion. Where’s the drama, this many months upon months into domination? An emotional investment in who could possibly win matters. A predictable outcome can still be good with a clear endgame. We’re getting predictable results with no endgame in sight. Is every Roman title match uninteresting though? I’ve found the vast majority of them to be interesting, with top notch ring work. I mean his matches with Jey Uso were fantastic and no one thought there was a shot of Jey winning. Foregone conclusion as to the winner isn’t always a deciding factor in whether a match is interesting or not.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,796
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Post by fw91 on May 23, 2022 19:19:28 GMT -5
Yeah, that’s all well and good that it set up challengers, but why should I care? Part of the reason why every Roman title match is so uninteresting is that the results are a foregone conclusion. Where’s the drama, this many months upon months into domination? An emotional investment in who could possibly win matters. A predictable outcome can still be good with a clear endgame. We’re getting predictable results with no endgame in sight. Is every Roman title match uninteresting though? I’ve found the vast majority of them to be interesting, with top notch ring work. I mean his matches with Jey Uso were fantastic and no one thought there was a shot of Jey winning. Foregone conclusion as to the winner isn’t always a deciding factor in whether a match is interesting or not. In ring the matches have been top notch, but everything feels like filler.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 23, 2022 19:25:22 GMT -5
Is every Roman title match uninteresting though? I’ve found the vast majority of them to be interesting, with top notch ring work. I mean his matches with Jey Uso were fantastic and no one thought there was a shot of Jey winning. Foregone conclusion as to the winner isn’t always a deciding factor in whether a match is interesting or not. In ring the matches have been top notch, but everything feels like filler. Not really to me. Maybe if people read online reports about the Rock potentially coming in next year they decide that everything in between won’t matter. But just from watching the TV week to week, there’s typically some thought that he might lose the title. People thought Edge would win it, in-match it seemed that Balor was going to win, some thought Bryan would win it, many thought Lesnar would win, same with Seth at the Rumble. People thought Cena might win and then drop it the next month to get his record breaking reign. The only filler challengers in the two years were probably Cesaro, Kevin Owens and Goldberg.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,379
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Post by Nosnorb on May 23, 2022 19:25:33 GMT -5
Yeah, that’s all well and good that it set up challengers, but why should I care? Part of the reason why every Roman title match is so uninteresting is that the results are a foregone conclusion. Where’s the drama, this many months upon months into domination? An emotional investment in who could possibly win matters. A predictable outcome can still be good with a clear endgame. We’re getting predictable results with no endgame in sight. Is every Roman title match uninteresting though? I’ve found the vast majority of them to be interesting, with top notch ring work. I mean his matches with Jey Uso were fantastic and no one thought there was a shot of Jey winning. Foregone conclusion as to the winner isn’t always a deciding factor in whether a match is interesting or not. It's not just the foregone conclusion, it's that the Status Quo stays the same. Roman wins and stays the same, and there is no advancement to the story. It looked as though it might be different when Seth Rollins made Roman lose his shit at the Royal Rumble, but it was back to the same old story within days.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,796
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Post by fw91 on May 23, 2022 19:28:06 GMT -5
In ring the matches have been top notch, but everything feels like filler. Not really to me. Maybe if people read online reports about the Rock potentially coming in next year they decide that everything in between won’t matter. But just from watching the TV week to week, there’s typically some thought that he might lose the title. People thought Edge would win it, in-match it seemed that Balor was going to win, some thought Bryan would win it, many thought Lesnar would win, same with Seth at the Rumble. People thought Cena might win and then drop it the next month to get his record breaking reign. The only filler challengers in the two years were probably Cesaro, Kevin Owens and Goldberg. I really only thought Roman was in danger of losing at Mania 37
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on May 23, 2022 19:48:30 GMT -5
Not really to me. Maybe if people read online reports about the Rock potentially coming in next year they decide that everything in between won’t matter. But just from watching the TV week to week, there’s typically some thought that he might lose the title. People thought Edge would win it, in-match it seemed that Balor was going to win, some thought Bryan would win it, many thought Lesnar would win, same with Seth at the Rumble. People thought Cena might win and then drop it the next month to get his record breaking reign. The only filler challengers in the two years were probably Cesaro, Kevin Owens and Goldberg. I really only thought Roman was in danger of losing at Mania 37 Yeah, No one legitimately thought Cena was winning. Balor was treated like an afterthought in his feud... upto and including the match. People only thought he would win towards the end when they busted out an entirely new hulk up power... up until that point Roman basically shrugged off everything Finn had done to him, and then Roman still won in the dumbest f***ing fashion possible and maked Finn look like an idiot.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on May 23, 2022 22:37:01 GMT -5
I really only thought Roman was in danger of losing at Mania 37 Yeah, No one legitimately thought Cena was winning. Balor was treated like an afterthought in his feud... upto and including the match. People only thought he would win towards the end when they busted out an entirely new hulk up power... up until that point Roman basically shrugged off everything Finn had done to him, and then Roman still won in the dumbest f***ing fashion possible and maked Finn look like an idiot. And then Finn basically was so ashamed by it, he fled the country and popped back up a couple of times to lose before coming back properly. That’s the only explanation I could have for his absence because they didn’t address it at all.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on May 23, 2022 22:45:24 GMT -5
Yeah, No one legitimately thought Cena was winning. Balor was treated like an afterthought in his feud... upto and including the match. People only thought he would win towards the end when they busted out an entirely new hulk up power... up until that point Roman basically shrugged off everything Finn had done to him, and then Roman still won in the dumbest f***ing fashion possible and maked Finn look like an idiot. And then Finn basically was so ashamed by it, he fled the country and popped back up a couple of times to lose before coming back properly. That’s the only explanation I could have for his absence because they didn’t address it at all. and went to the opposite show...
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Post by "American Nightmare" B.B. Bart on May 24, 2022 1:29:14 GMT -5
Is every Roman title match uninteresting though? I’ve found the vast majority of them to be interesting, with top notch ring work. I mean his matches with Jey Uso were fantastic and no one thought there was a shot of Jey winning. Foregone conclusion as to the winner isn’t always a deciding factor in whether a match is interesting or not. It's not just the foregone conclusion, it's that the Status Quo stays the same. Roman wins and stays the same, and there is no advancement to the story. It looked as though it might be different when Seth Rollins made Roman lose his shit at the Royal Rumble, but it was back to the same old story within days. Now would be the point where Roman's weaknesses start to become more evident and you have a scenario where the guy who beats him ends up exploiting these weaknesses in order to win. But that would require WWE to tell a story other than "Roman wins LOL".
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on May 24, 2022 2:33:52 GMT -5
Is every Roman title match uninteresting though? I’ve found the vast majority of them to be interesting, with top notch ring work. I mean his matches with Jey Uso were fantastic and no one thought there was a shot of Jey winning. Foregone conclusion as to the winner isn’t always a deciding factor in whether a match is interesting or not. In ring the matches have been top notch, but everything feels like filler. That's been true for a lot of WWE this past decade or so, in my opinion. They've had countless top-tier in-ring talents, highly respected titans of wrestling from around the world, with huge legacies in the indie scene, many years experience moving through ROH, TNA, Japan, Mexico, and high workrate up-and-comers who've progressed through WWE's own talent machine in NXT. They've had some of the absolute best of the best. Names who people would never have thought would ever be part of WWE. Even some who have been long-time WWE names who I used to think of as generic, uninteresting garbage from the Ruthless Aggression era, like Ziggler, who they've made me want to see win from time to time, who I've come to appreciate and want to invest in. But then what? They just run them through this muddled mish-mash of repeats, nothing matches, pointless go-nowhere feuds, angles that build them up just to crush them again, humiliate them, or just meander off into meaningless boring shrug-a-thons. Just as soon as they make me start thinking "hey, I'm starting to get behind this guy, I kinda liked his in-ring work, but now I'm emotionally invested, I want him to win!", they switch it around like that never happened and, whoops, he's back on a meaningless losing streak again, and all my giving-a-damn was for nothing. The actual wrestling talent is something I don't think anybody could question, on the whole, and I appreciate that they've been able to amass that kind of roster line-up. But it needs to have some sort of meaningful narrative, logic, purpose, continuity, character development, structure, dynamics, tonal up and downs, lasting impacts that make me wonder what these characters will do next. Without that I might as well just be watching a super-indie exhibition show. There's nothing wrong with that, just pure wrestling for the sake of wrestling, if that's what you're into. But it's not what I'm into. I'm here for the showmanship, the story, the fictional universe these characters live in, their development, their lives, their trials and tribulations, their triumphs and validating successes. I need it to have some sort of ongoing meaning, not just "two guys who are really good at wrestling are putting on a clinic for the 9th week in a row together" or a bunch of arbitrary wins and losses which leave me unconvinced as to my potential favourite guy's place in this promotion, or in wrestling in general.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on May 24, 2022 4:33:28 GMT -5
Honestly I don't even think most of Reigns' matches are very good. They're all the same structurally and every one of them has a shit finish because he always just goes, "Welp, done selling now," and then wins super decisively. There's never any drama in it, he just decides he's ready to win and his opponent from then on lies there helpless as he beats them to death. I mean after 8 years of only Roman, if you dont like Roman why are you even watching? Because there are plenty of other people on the roster I do like, and wish they'd get some shine every once in awhile. And these days more often than not I'm not watching and Roman is a substantial part of why.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,372
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Post by Push R Truth on May 24, 2022 6:00:18 GMT -5
I think what really pisses me of is that we have this supposed Brand Split yet they let Roman and the Uso's come spread their stank all over RAW whenever they want. At least it's easy to just not watch Smackdown for a couple years to avoid the misery, but that's not even enough anymore.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 24, 2022 7:33:16 GMT -5
In ring the matches have been top notch, but everything feels like filler. That's been true for a lot of WWE this past decade or so, in my opinion. They've had countless top-tier in-ring talents, highly respected titans of wrestling from around the world, with huge legacies in the indie scene, many years experience moving through ROH, TNA, Japan, Mexico, and high workrate up-and-comers who've progressed through WWE's own talent machine in NXT. They've had some of the absolute best of the best. Names who people would never have thought would ever be part of WWE. Even some who have been long-time WWE names who I used to think of as generic, uninteresting garbage from the Ruthless Aggression era, like Ziggler, who they've made me want to see win from time to time, who I've come to appreciate and want to invest in. But then what? They just run them through this muddled mish-mash of repeats, nothing matches, pointless go-nowhere feuds, angles that build them up just to crush them again, humiliate them, or just meander off into meaningless boring shrug-a-thons. Just as soon as they make me start thinking "hey, I'm starting to get behind this guy, I kinda liked his in-ring work, but now I'm emotionally invested, I want him to win!", they switch it around like that never happened and, whoops, he's back on a meaningless losing streak again, and all my giving-a-damn was for nothing. The actual wrestling talent is something I don't think anybody could question, on the whole, and I appreciate that they've been able to amass that kind of roster line-up. But it needs to have some sort of meaningful narrative, logic, purpose, continuity, character development, structure, dynamics, tonal up and downs, lasting impacts that make me wonder what these characters will do next. Without that I might as well just be watching a super-indie exhibition show. There's nothing wrong with that, just pure wrestling for the sake of wrestling, if that's what you're into. But it's not what I'm into. I'm here for the showmanship, the story, the fictional universe these characters live in, their development, their lives, their trials and tribulations, their triumphs and validating successes. I need it to have some sort of ongoing meaning, not just "two guys who are really good at wrestling are putting on a clinic for the 9th week in a row together" or a bunch of arbitrary wins and losses which leave me unconvinced as to my potential favourite guy's place in this promotion, or in wrestling in general. I'll say this again, since it always kind of ate at me regarding people's discussion of "workrate vs. storytelling" or however else it often gets or used to be framed: I just remember years and years of being told how ROH was a "workrate company with no psychology" and how WWE is "where they tell stories", yet I've long held and still hold that the exact opposite is the case, as WWE matches tend to be very minimal in storytelling impact while companies like classic ROH often placed a premium on match psychology or storytelling to further angles or character arcs. Like, in western media art the saying is "show, don't tell", yet WWE's house style tends to be "motivations and arcs are communicated almost entirely through promos, matches fit the basic 'face starts hot, heel takes over, build to comeback' dynamic, all that really matters is the booking of the finish." That's the opposite of "show, don't tell". Promos are meant to be just that: promotional. They draw people in to get them excited for the actual payoff, which is the match itself and what happens in it, yet that's not really what speaking segments do on WWE TV, it seems. Obviously there are exceptions, I'm not saying WWE never tells in ring stories or never shows character progression via what goes on in the ring, but it feels minimal compared with a ton of other promotions, where what occurs in the ring isn't just there to impress the viewer but asks viewers to actively pay attention to things like choices of moves, pacing, facial expressions and mannerisms, etc. I rarely feel like those matter in WWE, since once the bell rings the basic "house style" just seems to set in most of the time.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 24, 2022 8:57:32 GMT -5
That's been true for a lot of WWE this past decade or so, in my opinion. They've had countless top-tier in-ring talents, highly respected titans of wrestling from around the world, with huge legacies in the indie scene, many years experience moving through ROH, TNA, Japan, Mexico, and high workrate up-and-comers who've progressed through WWE's own talent machine in NXT. They've had some of the absolute best of the best. Names who people would never have thought would ever be part of WWE. Even some who have been long-time WWE names who I used to think of as generic, uninteresting garbage from the Ruthless Aggression era, like Ziggler, who they've made me want to see win from time to time, who I've come to appreciate and want to invest in. But then what? They just run them through this muddled mish-mash of repeats, nothing matches, pointless go-nowhere feuds, angles that build them up just to crush them again, humiliate them, or just meander off into meaningless boring shrug-a-thons. Just as soon as they make me start thinking "hey, I'm starting to get behind this guy, I kinda liked his in-ring work, but now I'm emotionally invested, I want him to win!", they switch it around like that never happened and, whoops, he's back on a meaningless losing streak again, and all my giving-a-damn was for nothing. The actual wrestling talent is something I don't think anybody could question, on the whole, and I appreciate that they've been able to amass that kind of roster line-up. But it needs to have some sort of meaningful narrative, logic, purpose, continuity, character development, structure, dynamics, tonal up and downs, lasting impacts that make me wonder what these characters will do next. Without that I might as well just be watching a super-indie exhibition show. There's nothing wrong with that, just pure wrestling for the sake of wrestling, if that's what you're into. But it's not what I'm into. I'm here for the showmanship, the story, the fictional universe these characters live in, their development, their lives, their trials and tribulations, their triumphs and validating successes. I need it to have some sort of ongoing meaning, not just "two guys who are really good at wrestling are putting on a clinic for the 9th week in a row together" or a bunch of arbitrary wins and losses which leave me unconvinced as to my potential favourite guy's place in this promotion, or in wrestling in general. I'll say this again, since it always kind of ate at me regarding people's discussion of "workrate vs. storytelling" or however else it often gets or used to be framed: I just remember years and years of being told how ROH was a "workrate company with no psychology" and how WWE is "where they tell stories", yet I've long held and still hold that the exact opposite is the case, as WWE matches tend to be very minimal in storytelling impact while companies like classic ROH often placed a premium on match psychology or storytelling to further angles or character arcs. Like, in western media art the saying is "show, don't tell", yet WWE's house style tends to be "motivations and arcs are communicated almost entirely through promos, matches fit the basic 'face starts hot, heel takes over, build to comeback' dynamic, all that really matters is the booking of the finish." That's the opposite of "show, don't tell". Promos are meant to be just that: promotional. They draw people in to get them excited for the actual payoff, which is the match itself and what happens in it, yet that's not really what speaking segments do on WWE TV, it seems. Obviously there are exceptions, I'm not saying WWE never tells in ring stories or never shows character progression via what goes on in the ring, but it feels minimal compared with a ton of other promotions, where what occurs in the ring isn't just there to impress the viewer but asks viewers to actively pay attention to things like choices of moves, pacing, facial expressions and mannerisms, etc. I rarely feel like those matter in WWE, since once the bell rings the basic "house style" just seems to set in most of the time. I think if you watched you’d be surprised at the amount of in-ring storytelling the WWE talent does, especially in big PPV matches. They typically don’t feel like house show matches.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,470
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Post by Dub H on May 24, 2022 12:14:18 GMT -5
Honestly I don't even think most of Reigns' matches are very good. They're all the same structurally and every one of them has a shit finish because he always just goes, "Welp, done selling now," and then wins super decisively. There's never any drama in it, he just decides he's ready to win and his opponent from then on lies there helpless as he beats them to death. I mean after 8 years of only Roman, if you dont like Roman why are you even watching? Because there are plenty of other people on the roster I do like, and wish they'd get some shine every once in awhile. And these days more often than not I'm not watching and Roman is a substantial part of why. I mean yeah that is kinda my point. I'm sure there is wrestlers people care about but you are being shove 24 7 about how Roman is the only thing that matters. I know this was the main reason I stopped watching
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Post by Hit Girl on May 24, 2022 12:30:43 GMT -5
Roman isn't famous enough to leave for a movie career. That's why Vince loves him.
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