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Post by HMARK Center on May 24, 2022 13:16:26 GMT -5
I'll say this again, since it always kind of ate at me regarding people's discussion of "workrate vs. storytelling" or however else it often gets or used to be framed: I just remember years and years of being told how ROH was a "workrate company with no psychology" and how WWE is "where they tell stories", yet I've long held and still hold that the exact opposite is the case, as WWE matches tend to be very minimal in storytelling impact while companies like classic ROH often placed a premium on match psychology or storytelling to further angles or character arcs. Like, in western media art the saying is "show, don't tell", yet WWE's house style tends to be "motivations and arcs are communicated almost entirely through promos, matches fit the basic 'face starts hot, heel takes over, build to comeback' dynamic, all that really matters is the booking of the finish." That's the opposite of "show, don't tell". Promos are meant to be just that: promotional. They draw people in to get them excited for the actual payoff, which is the match itself and what happens in it, yet that's not really what speaking segments do on WWE TV, it seems. Obviously there are exceptions, I'm not saying WWE never tells in ring stories or never shows character progression via what goes on in the ring, but it feels minimal compared with a ton of other promotions, where what occurs in the ring isn't just there to impress the viewer but asks viewers to actively pay attention to things like choices of moves, pacing, facial expressions and mannerisms, etc. I rarely feel like those matter in WWE, since once the bell rings the basic "house style" just seems to set in most of the time. I think if you watched you’d be surprised at the amount of in-ring storytelling the WWE talent does, especially in big PPV matches. They typically don’t feel like house show matches. I've given it too many tries over the years, and I never feel satisfied when I do. I fully admit I don't regularly watch any of WWE's content, but if I'd get invited to watch a PPV at a friend's house, for example, I usually walked away not thinking a lot of the matches, and what there was to sink your teeth into often felt like it'd get negated by whatever they'd do the next night on Raw or whatever. WWE's gospel tends to be "status quo"; that's not inherently a bad thing, consistency is often welcome, but it's not so much when it means you don't really feel like you've gone on a journey with the characters you're supposed to be following and watch grow and change.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 24, 2022 13:24:33 GMT -5
I think if you watched you’d be surprised at the amount of in-ring storytelling the WWE talent does, especially in big PPV matches. They typically don’t feel like house show matches. I've given it too many tries over the years, and I never feel satisfied when I do. I fully admit I don't regularly watch any of WWE's content, but if I'd get invited to watch a PPV at a friend's house, for example, I usually walked away not thinking a lot of the matches, and what there was to sink your teeth into often felt like it'd get negated by whatever they'd do the next night on Raw or whatever. WWE's gospel tends to be "status quo"; that's not inherently a bad thing, consistency is often welcome, but it's not so much when it means you don't really feel like you've gone on a journey with the characters you're supposed to be following and watch grow and change. Without the benefit of watching the angles, and the weeks and months leading to the match that you may have seen, couldn’t that affect your view of whether the match you saw had any story behind it and story developing through it, as opposed to viewing it as a cold stand alone match? I do agree, though, that things are sometimes too status quo after a big event where major events happen (usually Wrestlemania when the part-timers/celebs disappear).
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on May 24, 2022 15:14:42 GMT -5
Honestly I don't even think most of Reigns' matches are very good. They're all the same structurally and every one of them has a shit finish because he always just goes, "Welp, done selling now," and then wins super decisively. There's never any drama in it, he just decides he's ready to win and his opponent from then on lies there helpless as he beats them to death. I mean after 8 years of only Roman, if you dont like Roman why are you even watching? Because there are plenty of other people on the roster I do like, and wish they'd get some shine every once in awhile. And these days more often than not I'm not watching and Roman is a substantial part of why. Someone gave me a good analogy for this. Imagine you went to a buffet restaurant that just opened. You go in and see the wide variety of food available and yeah there are going to be options you don't like but for the most part it's all good. Now years go by the quality of the food drops, slowly, steadily. The baked mac and cheese that was once delicious is now just sort of bland and slightly undercooked but there is this one dish, The main dish, that is still amazing. Eventually, you realize that every other option despite being your favorite once is now unappetizing, They don't get promoted in the flyers the restaurant hands out and the workers and cooks that bring out the food never mention them but sing the praises of that main dish. Hell, they even lowered the lighting on the other options and installed a spotlight to emphasize the main dish. This is what the WWE is now. I ask what if any is the stopping point? Do you just keep on having the same thing over and over for years to come until they decide the next guy to shift all focus to?
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Post by Hypnosis on May 24, 2022 21:59:57 GMT -5
Honestly I don't even think most of Reigns' matches are very good. They're all the same structurally and every one of them has a shit finish because he always just goes, "Welp, done selling now," and then wins super decisively. There's never any drama in it, he just decides he's ready to win and his opponent from then on lies there helpless as he beats them to death. Because there are plenty of other people on the roster I do like, and wish they'd get some shine every once in awhile. And these days more often than not I'm not watching and Roman is a substantial part of why. Someone gave me a good analogy for this. Imagine you went to a buffet restaurant that just opened. You go in and see the wide variety of food available and yeah there are going to be options you don't like but for the most part it's all good. Now years go by the quality of the food drops, slowly, steadily. The baked mac and cheese that was once delicious is now just sort of bland and slightly undercooked but there is this one dish, The main dish, that is still amazing. Eventually, you realize that every other option despite being your favorite once is now unappetizing, They don't get promoted in the flyers the restaurant hands out and the workers and cooks that bring out the food never mention them but sing the praises of that main dish. Hell, they even lowered the lighting on the other options and installed a spotlight to emphasize the main dish. This is what the WWE is now. I ask what if any is the stopping point? Do you just keep on having the same thing over and over for years to come until they decide the next guy to shift all focus to? Basically, a 70+ year old man with constant mood swings shouldn't be running the company anymore, but is unwilling to step down because he keeps lucking his way into profits.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 24, 2022 22:39:12 GMT -5
People just want to see different guys lumber the belt to the ring. As though booking is suddenly gonna be magic if Cody Rhodes and Drew were champions. It's still the same aimless booking with no point.
The belts aren't even props anymore, they accessories.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on May 25, 2022 5:16:20 GMT -5
Basically, a 70+ year old man with constant mood swings shouldn't be running the company anymore, but is unwilling to step down because he keeps lucking his way into profits. Also because the big wigs involved with stocks and shares for said company love said 70+ year old man with constant mood swings because he keeps lucking his way into profits.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 25, 2022 5:30:25 GMT -5
Happy 50 pages everyone, here's to 100 more before this is over probably!
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Post by Beets by Schrute on Jul 31, 2022 11:55:22 GMT -5
Still here.
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Post by thechase on Jul 31, 2022 11:59:36 GMT -5
Page 50 We'll all be 50 when this ends
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Jul 31, 2022 12:32:42 GMT -5
Hate aspects of it myself but the success can’t be denied. Roman’s over AF. In the exact way they want. He’s putting in the best work of his career and this title reign will be looked back upon. I don’t think Drew gets it. Think this still goes to The Rock. Maybe Cody.
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jhbboy198917
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Post by jhbboy198917 on Jul 31, 2022 12:54:05 GMT -5
Hate aspects of it myself but the success can’t be denied. Roman’s over AF. In the exact way they want. He’s putting in the best work of his career and this title reign will be looked back upon. I don’t think Drew gets it. Think this still goes to The Rock. Maybe Cody. Cody Drew Lashley GUNTHER Those are my choices on who should beat Reigns
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Post by canceled4truth on Jul 31, 2022 13:08:26 GMT -5
Hate aspects of it myself but the success can’t be denied. Roman’s over AF. In the exact way they want. He’s putting in the best work of his career and this title reign will be looked back upon. I don’t think Drew gets it. Think this still goes to The Rock. Maybe Cody. I don't think there's any way they put the title on Rocky at this point, but hell I've been surprised before. Cody is the most narratively satisfying choice, IMO, with Drew as a close second
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Jul 31, 2022 13:44:48 GMT -5
I'm going to continue beating the drum that it doesn't have to be a choice between Drew and Cody. You don't have to deny Drew his moment for Cody to get his. You can easily do both.
Drew wins at CATC, gets an iconic victory in front of the massive UK crowd, finally gets to hold a world title in front of fans then Roman regains the title around Rumble time. That's a solid 4-5 month run for Drew which is fine. Then Cody returns, wins the Rumble and beats Roman at Wrestlemania. Two babyfaces get career defining moments and it's not going to kill Roman to lose twice in 6 months after all the equity he's built up.
No one will think any less of Cody's victory because he's not ending a super long reign. Main eventing Wrestlemania and winning the world title from Roman is the important thing. I personally don't think it matter a great deal whether Roman goes into the match with a 2 year reign or a 2 month reign.
I compare it to Rock/Punk in 2013. WWE was so insistent that Punk had to go into that match on the back of a 400+day reign so they sacrificed Ryback at his hottest. They could easily have Ryback get the rub from beating Punk then drop it back a month or two later. That would have been way better for him than never getting the moment in the first place.
Speaking of Rock, he's the wildcard here. Obviously if he's able to work Wrestlemania you have to do Rock/Roman. In that case Cody can win the title from Seth to end their feud after Seth beats Drew at some point. Rock/Roman can main event one night and Cody's title win main events the other. If Vince was in charge I would say there's little chance of that happening. He would probably insist on Rock/Roman being a title match even if it's not necessary but I'm hoping there's now a chance that it could go the other way.
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bob
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Post by bob on Jul 31, 2022 17:56:50 GMT -5
Page 50 We'll all be 50 when this ends
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jul 31, 2022 18:33:33 GMT -5
Finding out what happened last night the age old adage is true, the more things change the more they stay the same.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Jul 31, 2022 18:56:06 GMT -5
Finding out what happened last night the age old adage is true, the more things change the more they stay the same. Did you want them to put the title on Brock???
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Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Jul 31, 2022 20:56:26 GMT -5
Finding out what happened last night the age old adage is true, the more things change the more they stay the same. Did you want them to put the title on Brock??? Seriously. The new regime was working with the hand they were dealt. At least give them ONE big show on their own with their own storytelling. And shit they did a damn good job at turning chicken shit into chicken salad given the circumstances of no one wanting to see that match for the 1000th time.
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Post by darbus alan on Jul 31, 2022 21:04:26 GMT -5
You're still going to be dealing with the last vestiges of Vince creative for awhile yet. It's not like Triple H can just press the reset button and start over from scratch immediately. He's already making quicker strides than I expected, but I wouldn't be surprised if the last gasps of Vince's stranglehold on creative direction are still around for a few months, maybe even as long as Wrestlemania.
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bob
Backup Wench
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 80,620
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Post by bob on Jul 31, 2022 21:58:21 GMT -5
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Jul 31, 2022 22:08:40 GMT -5
You're still going to be dealing with the last vestiges of Vince creative for awhile yet. It's not like Triple H can just press the reset button and start over from scratch immediately. He's already making quicker strides than I expected, but I wouldn't be surprised if the last gasps of Vince's stranglehold on creative direction are still around for a few months, maybe even as long as Wrestlemania. Yea, I’m giving it like close to a year to a year and six months before the products full change is fulfilled.
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