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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 24, 2021 10:20:43 GMT -5
Christian just debuting at Revolution without the mystery announcement in the Wight/Schiavone segment might have gone over better. Pretty much was my point, that and in conference calls Tony and Cody hyped it up as a huge signing. I like Christian but this isn't a guy coming I'm with a lot of momentum. Had he showed up and interrupted someone? That would have been a pretty cool debut and got him more hype Yea, exactly what I said If they didn't hype it up and Christian just showed up or we got a surprise signing like they did with Big Show, people would been buzzing. Hyping it up as HOF talent (which he is) ain't it tho. 5 days or a month, he was hyped as someone on the PPV and it fell flat but good to see he is taking it in stride
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Celgress
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Post by Celgress on Mar 24, 2021 10:37:00 GMT -5
TK already has the base locked he should be trying to grow the audience now. I call BS when people say Wrestling is a niche product. It isn't historically a niche product (look at the boom periods of the 1980s and the Monday Night Wars) rather it has become a niche product due largely to the actions of one man Vince once he monopolized the industry. These same people loved Shaq and were disappointed Show did not make a cameo during that segment. I as a diehard fan had no problem with Shaq either and enjoyed him. Again, I disagree with the premise that "TK has the base locked." There is no such thing. It's a new company and they could all disappear tomorrow. Fans are loyal to the product because the product tries to be loyal to the fans. It's a company that loves professional wrestling, from top to the bottom, and is trying to make the fans happy. The second they start ignoring that, they will lose their fans. This happens to TV shows, comic books, musicians. You have to ALWAYS and FOREVER care about your base fans, they can be gone overnight. It's not a niche product. Again, AEW does amazing in ratings, finishing sometimes number 2 in Males 18-49. That's out of 200 shows on cable. That's a mainstream product. They're not getting more mainstream by being #1, they're already there. I think this thing about "growing" the audience, as if AEW is finishing #150 in cable ratings, when it is a top 10 show, is ignoring their numbers. They're doing PPV numbers unseen since the 90s. When there were live audiences, they were doing numbers unseen since the 90s. The best way to "grow" the audience is when the world opens up again, they can tour, and friends take other friends to shows. Or Shaq has a match, or they do some cross promotion with some other Warners' property, like DC comics or NBA on TNT. I think anyone who thinks signing CM Punk will help them "grow", or Brock Lesnar, really doesn't understand what makes a business popular and what doesn't. Signing veterans with name recognition who are beloved backstage is a good thing, signing assholes who only care about a paycheck because they have a "name" is a recipe for disaster.It has worked before see Hogan AWA to WWE and assorted, also see the nWo and company (who came with Hogan) many of whom were "assholes" out for themselves but had high name value. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand the history of this industry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2021 11:03:05 GMT -5
He's right. But you can't hype up that signing like it's gonna shock the world and then have it be Christian. Most of us were speculating Lesnar, Punk, Cena, etc.
And don't say "Its YOUR fault for getting your hopes up"... The company knew what it was doing. They wanted to create that buzz for extra viewers.
Well, jokes on them because those people who never turned in before are now bitterly disappointed and probably won't be coming back.
I like Christian by the way. But he was a solid upper mid carder at best.
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Post by toodarkmark on Mar 24, 2021 11:06:15 GMT -5
Again, I disagree with the premise that "TK has the base locked." There is no such thing. It's a new company and they could all disappear tomorrow. Fans are loyal to the product because the product tries to be loyal to the fans. It's a company that loves professional wrestling, from top to the bottom, and is trying to make the fans happy. The second they start ignoring that, they will lose their fans. This happens to TV shows, comic books, musicians. You have to ALWAYS and FOREVER care about your base fans, they can be gone overnight. It's not a niche product. Again, AEW does amazing in ratings, finishing sometimes number 2 in Males 18-49. That's out of 200 shows on cable. That's a mainstream product. They're not getting more mainstream by being #1, they're already there. I think this thing about "growing" the audience, as if AEW is finishing #150 in cable ratings, when it is a top 10 show, is ignoring their numbers. They're doing PPV numbers unseen since the 90s. When there were live audiences, they were doing numbers unseen since the 90s. The best way to "grow" the audience is when the world opens up again, they can tour, and friends take other friends to shows. Or Shaq has a match, or they do some cross promotion with some other Warners' property, like DC comics or NBA on TNT. I think anyone who thinks signing CM Punk will help them "grow", or Brock Lesnar, really doesn't understand what makes a business popular and what doesn't. Signing veterans with name recognition who are beloved backstage is a good thing, signing assholes who only care about a paycheck because they have a "name" is a recipe for disaster.It has worked before see Hogan AWA to WWE and assorted, also see the nWo and company (who came with Hogan) many of whom were "assholes" out for themselves but had high name value. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand the history of this industry. So your best example is something from 38 years ago and 27 years ago? Name an asshole in the last 25 years who signed with a wrestling company and put them on "another" level.
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Post by toodarkmark on Mar 24, 2021 11:14:30 GMT -5
He's right. But you can't hype up that signing like it's gonna shock the world and then have it be Christian. Most of us were speculating Lesnar, Punk, Cena, etc. And don't say "Its YOUR fault for getting your hopes up"... The company knew what it was doing. They wanted to create that buzz for extra viewers. Well, jokes on them because those people who never turned in before are now bitterly disappointed and probably won't be coming back. I like Christian by the way. But he was a solid upper mid carder at best. Honestly, if people tuned in because they thought Brock Lesnar or CM Punk were coming, and aren't coming back, then how long would those fans be around anyways? I mean seriously, that is literally the definition of fickle. If it wasn't this, then they'd be gone for another dumb reason. That's not the kind of fan you build a business around. They would be "bitterly disappointed" at some other thing very soon, and would move on anyways.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
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Post by Celgress on Mar 24, 2021 11:18:44 GMT -5
He's right. But you can't hype up that signing like it's gonna shock the world and then have it be Christian. Most of us were speculating Lesnar, Punk, Cena, etc. And don't say "Its YOUR fault for getting your hopes up"... The company knew what it was doing. They wanted to create that buzz for extra viewers. Well, jokes on them because those people who never turned in before are now bitterly disappointed and probably won't be coming back. I like Christian by the way. But he was a solid upper mid carder at best. I hate that it is such a disingenuous argument. It shifts blame from AEW to fans and potential fans.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Mar 24, 2021 11:31:47 GMT -5
Don't know why he didn't keep the whole "Peeps" deal either, even if it had to be tweaked for trademark reasons. "Good wrestler" isn't a unique character to just him. When I think of babyface Christian in WWE, TNA, ECW or his first few AEW appearances his character is usually always good wrestler/fighting champion/workhorse. For someone nicknamed Captain Charisma he only seems to fully show his charisma when he's a heel. Edge has the same problem. Any babyface run is always short lived because they're both much more entertaining as heels. He was much more snarky in TNA and ECW. He's only had one promo, but it was way more serious than what he used to do. He's a much better babyface than Edge, but this booking isn't doing him a favor
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Post by Hypnosis on Mar 24, 2021 11:42:04 GMT -5
When I think of babyface Christian in WWE, TNA, ECW or his first few AEW appearances his character is usually always good wrestler/fighting champion/workhorse. For someone nicknamed Captain Charisma he only seems to fully show his charisma when he's a heel. Edge has the same problem. Any babyface run is always short lived because they're both much more entertaining as heels. He was much more snarky in TNA and ECW. He's only had one promo, but it was way more serious than what he used to do. He's a much better babyface than Edge, but this booking isn't doing him a favor I remember Christian calling JBL "David Spade in a fat suit" on commentary after JBL made Vince-like jokes about Christian being "ugly".
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Mar 24, 2021 15:56:47 GMT -5
Fans overhyped this one for themselves. Pretty much the only "hype" AEW gave it is saying it's someone HOF calibre, but that's such a broad term these days anyway.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Mar 24, 2021 18:53:56 GMT -5
Fans overhyped this one for themselves. Pretty much the only "hype" AEW gave it is saying it's someone HOF calibre, but that's such a broad term these days anyway. Cody and Tony also hyped it in the Revolution press call as well to be fair. Now Tony did come out and say people are gonna think Punk and it wasn't him but he also said the signing was just as as big and was one of his favorite wrestlers. So sounds like Tony just geeked out a bit
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Post by jordo34 on Mar 24, 2021 19:40:23 GMT -5
it was never going to work when tony kahn and big show hyped it up too much, if it was a suprise debut it wouldn't have the negative reaction
hes right though, talking it up no matter who it was going to be, some fans are just gonna whinge and whine it wasn't who they wanted
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Post by edgestar on Mar 28, 2021 16:13:23 GMT -5
I'll watch (or dvr) aew, to see my favorites. Christian is one of them. If he's happy, then why be mad at him, when he didn't hurt my feelings? When my husband and I met him at comic con, a few years ago, he talked with us for a while. He didn't have to do that, especially after he signed pictures and took a picture with us. He'll always be one of my favorites.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 28, 2021 20:49:36 GMT -5
I mean if Christian isn't sweating people who wanted someone like Punk, Lesnar, or Cena, then I don't think anyone else should Wrestling fans play themselves, that's all these is to it. You could say AEW overhyped it but the fans in the end who made those unattainable expectations were always, and I mean ALWAYS, going to lose. That was my impression of the matter from my limited perspective on AEW. I feel like that section of ultra fans are waiting for something or someone that would be a massive dagger blow to WWE, something that would be like "Yeah, we f***ing got you now, you bastards". To me, the only people that could possibly do that are The Rock and John Cena, maybe Brock Lesnar. Christian Cage, with all due respect to the man, isn't that level of guy. But to the average AEW fan, I think they would have been satisfied because that audience by and large respects Cage for his abilities, generally are aware of his struggles to find main event level success in WWE and would be interested in seeing him have another shot outside that system, seven year absence or not. Yeah and the thing I've said all along though is... Cena/The Rock/Brock... or Punk... those aren't the people you pull the "we have a mystery signing coming on a PPV" hype with ... You just flat out say... John Cena is coming to AEW tune into the PPV for his arrival/first match/ whatever...
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Post by eJm on Mar 28, 2021 20:52:55 GMT -5
That was my impression of the matter from my limited perspective on AEW. I feel like that section of ultra fans are waiting for something or someone that would be a massive dagger blow to WWE, something that would be like "Yeah, we f***ing got you now, you bastards". To me, the only people that could possibly do that are The Rock and John Cena, maybe Brock Lesnar. Christian Cage, with all due respect to the man, isn't that level of guy. But to the average AEW fan, I think they would have been satisfied because that audience by and large respects Cage for his abilities, generally are aware of his struggles to find main event level success in WWE and would be interested in seeing him have another shot outside that system, seven year absence or not. Yeah and the thing I've said all along though is... Cena/The Rock/Brock... or Punk... those aren't the people you pull the "we have a mystery signing coming on a PPV" hype with ... You just flat out say... John Cena is coming to AEW tune into the PPV for his arrival/first match/ whatever... As I said before, management seems open to the fact TNT is working with them on stuff, even going as far as to recommend the Dark Elevation name for the new online show, you think the second they find out AEW signed someone of that nature, they wouldn’t move heaven and Earth to get them to announce it on the show that Wednesday with big fanfare? Come on. Like, the Shaq match happened on TNT for a reason.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 28, 2021 21:12:45 GMT -5
Still don't see how this couldn't be a huge surprise that could shock everyone when Christian was in the WWE Royal Rumble a month ago and everyone was absolutely under the impression he was under some sort of WWE deal to continue working there after the fact
Say what you want about the stature of Christian as a performer, but people saying it either wasn't a surprise or enough of one when the guy competed in WWE a month before he showed up on AEW is absolutely one of the shockers of the last few years that WWE would just let him walk like that, but still put him on a major PPV and last till the final four of the Rumble anyway.
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Glitch
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Post by Glitch on Mar 29, 2021 1:12:50 GMT -5
The major question is has a mystery signing announcement ever worked out? Especially if you say he's a huge deal.
And I have yet to hear a reason why Christian couldn't just simply been announced ahead of time or have made a surprise debut.
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Post by lavelleuk on Mar 29, 2021 2:13:29 GMT -5
Bit late on this
Why does it make people fickle? Some fans enjoy something, others dont. Its like people see wrestling fans as one entity so when there are conflicting thoughts and emotions theyre called fickle and people complain you csnt please them
I'm sure there's a group of fans who love Christian and wish he'd had a better career, I'm sure there's others who wish AEW wouldn't sign old guys. Both being vocal doesn't mean the guys who love him don't now hate hes in AEW!
For what its worth I've seen around 20 years of Christian matches and I watch AEW because it feels fresh so I'm not a fan at all. But I've also seen 20 years on Daniel Bryan matches snd would love him to sign. Thsts not fickle, its called being a human with human thoughts lol
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Post by eJm on Mar 29, 2021 3:05:47 GMT -5
And I have yet to hear a reason why Christian couldn't just simply been announced ahead of time or have made a surprise debut. To counter that, I’ve yet to hear why Paul Wight’s line about a “Hall of Fame level talent” debuting at a PPV 3 days later would lead to people thinking it’d be some combination of Rock/Cena/Brock/Angle or why it was bad that it didn’t.
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Post by edgestar on Mar 29, 2021 8:46:21 GMT -5
Bit late on this Why does it make people fickle? Some fans enjoy something, others dont. Its like people see wrestling fans as one entity so when there are conflicting thoughts and emotions theyre called fickle and people complain you csnt please them I'm sure there's a group of fans who love Christian and wish he'd had a better career, I'm sure there's others who wish AEW wouldn't sign old guys. Both being vocal doesn't mean the guys who love him don't now hate hes in AEW! For what its worth I've seen around 20 years of Christian matches and I watch AEW because it feels fresh so I'm not a fan at all. But I've also seen 20 years on Daniel Bryan matches snd would love him to sign. Thsts not fickle, its called being a human with human thoughts lol I think he was talking about the social media aspect of it. You speculate that it could be ANYONE, based on the announcement, and when "it's Christian", that's where the fickle explanation comes. You are absolutely allowed to enjoy, or be disappointed, with Christian. I have always been a fan, so I will continue to watch.
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 29, 2021 9:16:52 GMT -5
And I have yet to hear a reason why Christian couldn't just simply been announced ahead of time or have made a surprise debut. To counter that, I’ve yet to hear why Paul Wight’s line about a “Hall of Fame level talent” debuting at a PPV 3 days later would lead to people thinking it’d be some combination of Rock/Cena/Brock/Angle or why it was bad that it didn’t. It was more Khan’s talk about it being a “huge huge star” and one of his favorite wrestlers of all time I think that got people geeked up for a Punk-level talent.
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