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Post by jivesoulbrah on Jun 22, 2021 20:17:10 GMT -5
Serious question not attempting to make anyone mad but who cares who she sleeps with? Seriously does it change if you enjoy her work? It doesn’t, not one bit, however despite it being 2021it’s something that irrationally bothers people to the point where they’re not accepting of it. I hope one day we get to the point where it matters as much as the color of someone’s hair.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jun 22, 2021 20:18:40 GMT -5
Serious question not attempting to make anyone mad but who cares who she sleeps with? Seriously does it change if you enjoy her work? It doesn’t, not one bit, however despite it being 2021it’s something that irrationally bothers people to the point where they’re not accepting of it. I hope one day we get to the point where it matters as much as the color of someone’s hair. I’ma firm believer of the more you make it a big deal the harder it is to become normal. I don’t care who you go to bed with I’ll judge you based upon yourself. I’ll judge you work based upon it.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jun 22, 2021 21:24:06 GMT -5
It doesn’t, not one bit, however despite it being 2021it’s something that irrationally bothers people to the point where they’re not accepting of it. I hope one day we get to the point where it matters as much as the color of someone’s hair. I’ma firm believer of the more you make it a big deal the harder it is to become normal. I don’t care who you go to bed with I’ll judge you based upon yourself. I’ll judge you work based upon it. The problem is that there's a lot of people for whom it's not normal and it's not acceptable, and the strongest way to push back against that is to come down this firmly. Any of a number of people can and should endeavor not to judge people for their orientation, but that doesn't stop the homophobes who do. That just isn't how the world works. She's not saying "Oh yeah this should change how you see my matches". Frankly it has nothing to do with wrestling? That's the worst way to look at this. There's also the factor in this of people feeling comfortable in coming forward about their identities about things that within their lifetimes have been illegal. Toni was born all of a year after homosexuality was no longer deemed a crime in Australia. Also, this is Toni being honest about her identity. That's it. If you're looking at this and thinking "Why should I care? This doesn't effect your matches" then maybe that's the kind of sentiment you shouldn't be voicing.
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john84
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Post by john84 on Jun 22, 2021 21:47:48 GMT -5
Thought she'd already come out as bi but, hey ho she definitely has now.
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Post by avenger on Jun 22, 2021 21:51:27 GMT -5
Serious question not attempting to make anyone mad but who cares who she sleeps with? Seriously does it change if you enjoy her work? It doesn’t, not one bit, however despite it being 2021it’s something that irrationally bothers people to the point where they’re not accepting of it. I hope one day we get to the point where it matters as much as the color of someone’s hair. When I was a kid the government in my country introduced a law saying it was illegal for schools to even mention that there was any sexuality that wasn't straight. I knew I was differeny when I was eight years old, but the first time I heard the word 'bisexual', I was in my twenties. I had no bisexual role models growing up. Also, even within the LGBTQIA+ community there is a lot of biphobia, and repeating of biphobic tropes. Surveys show that there are more bisexual people than there are gays and lesbians, yet there are fewer out bisexuals than gays and lesbians. Bisexual men, especially are more likely to be in the closet (I came out at the age of 42). Representation, and visible role models matter, after all, if you can see it, you can be it. So yeah, if you're straight, it might not matter. Good for you, but for kids that are LGBT, seeing openly gay wrestlers like Darren Young, Jake Atlas and Sonya Deville, and bisexual wrestlers like Tegan Nox, Piper Niven and Toni Storm is important, and seeing the acceptance of them (and of Carl Nassib) is important.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Jun 22, 2021 23:29:07 GMT -5
Serious question not attempting to make anyone mad but who cares who she sleeps with? Seriously does it change if you enjoy her work? It doesn’t, not one bit, however despite it being 2021it’s something that irrationally bothers people to the point where they’re not accepting of it. I hope one day we get to the point where it matters as much as the color of someone’s hair. Yup pretty much. My wife has been bi for so long with no issues to the point where it doesn’t even phase me when a celebrity comes out as bi. It doesn’t even seem like a problem when two of her sisters are bi as well.....until you get to the last sister who’s husband would disown any of his sons if they ever liked guys. Hence we see why it’s still a big deal in this day and age.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 23, 2021 0:24:38 GMT -5
I’ma firm believer of the more you make it a big deal the harder it is to become normal. I don’t care who you go to bed with I’ll judge you based upon yourself. I’ll judge you work based upon it. The problem is that there's a lot of people for whom it's not normal and it's not acceptable, and the strongest way to push back against that is to come down this firmly. Any of a number of people can and should endeavor not to judge people for their orientation, but that doesn't stop the homophobes who do. That just isn't how the world works. She's not saying "Oh yeah this should change how you see my matches". Frankly it has nothing to do with wrestling? That's the worst way to look at this. There's also the factor in this of people feeling comfortable in coming forward about their identities about things that within their lifetimes have been illegal. Toni was born all of a year after homosexuality was no longer deemed a crime in Australia. Also, this is Toni being honest about her identity. That's it. If you're looking at this and thinking "Why should I care? This doesn't effect your matches" then maybe that's the kind of sentiment you shouldn't be voicing. And before the pandemic, WWE toured in countries where homosexual activities were varying levels of illegal (and not just Saudi Arabia, either). In some instances, punishment included death.
Despite rapidly growing of acceptance in the US, there's still millions of people in this country alone who won't accept a gay or trans child as theirs. Gay conversion therapy is still legal in a distressing amount of states. Bisexual people face a lot of awful stereotypes both within and without the community. Trans people and those outside the gender binary still face a major uphill battle for the same basic access to physical and mental health services cisgender people take for granted. Members of the community, especially younger ones, are also far more likely to commit suicide due to a combination of these factors.
If someone like Toni Storm coming out can give even one LGBTQ+ youth some sort of strength to go on without killing themselves, then it's worth it.
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Heartbreaker
King Koopa
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Post by Heartbreaker on Jun 23, 2021 0:37:18 GMT -5
Toni was born all of a year after homosexuality was no longer deemed a crime in Australia. Also, gay marriage was not legal in Australia until December 2017. It doesn’t, not one bit, however despite it being 2021it’s something that irrationally bothers people to the point where they’re not accepting of it. I hope one day we get to the point where it matters as much as the color of someone’s hair. When I was a kid the government in my country introduced a law saying it was illegal for schools to even mention that there was any sexuality that wasn't straight. I knew I was differeny when I was eight years old, but the first time I heard the word 'bisexual', I was in my twenties. I had no bisexual role models growing up. Also, even within the LGBTQIA+ community there is a lot of biphobia, and repeating of biphobic tropes. Surveys show that there are more bisexual people than there are gays and lesbians, yet there are fewer out bisexuals than gays and lesbians. Bisexual men, especially are more likely to be in the closet (I came out at the age of 42). Representation, and visible role models matter, after all, if you can see it, you can be it. So yeah, if you're straight, it might not matter. Good for you, but for kids that are LGBT, seeing openly gay wrestlers like Darren Young, Jake Atlas and Sonya Deville, and bisexual wrestlers like Tegan Nox, Piper Niven and Toni Storm is important, and seeing the acceptance of them (and of Carl Nassib) is important. I think the first time I ever heard somebody actually say the word "bisexual" in media was when Rosa came out in Brooklyn Nine-Nine. That wasn't even four years ago.
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Post by karl100589 on Jun 23, 2021 0:41:55 GMT -5
Serious question not attempting to make anyone mad but who cares who she sleeps with? Seriously does it change if you enjoy her work? Unfortunately there’s a lot of people who are still very narrow minded, and some people fear coming out will harm their marketability. I think there are a lot of female MMA fighters who are out, but won’t reveal as such through fear of driving away the Instagram horndogs.
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Kyn
Don Corleone
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Post by Kyn on Jun 23, 2021 1:03:48 GMT -5
Serious question not attempting to make anyone mad but who cares who she sleeps with? Seriously does it change if you enjoy her work? In the context of her career, I don't think it's about how it changes our view of her work. It's about how it changes a person's view of the type of person who can be a professional wrestler. It could change the future for a kid being bullied for their sexuality, who's afraid to chase their dream career. Seeing someone they identify with making it on a huge stage makes a difference. Society on the whole might be more progressive these days, but the reason people have to come out in the first place is because prejudice still exists. Until people can just grow up being queer/straight/purple/Tasmanian with no one giving a shit, visibility matters for reasons other than 'but it doesn't change how they wrestle'.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jun 23, 2021 1:08:07 GMT -5
Utopian thinking is all well and good, but I think putting aside the ways that it's not realistic, if you're saying "Who cares?" whenever someone comes out, you aren't being even remotely as supportive and accepting as you actually think you are.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 23, 2021 2:29:48 GMT -5
Serious question not attempting to make anyone mad but who cares who she sleeps with? Seriously does it change if you enjoy her work? That is a question for all the straight folks, not us, I can assure you
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Post by thechase on Jun 23, 2021 3:28:38 GMT -5
She'll take 'em both, she's hardcore!
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jun 23, 2021 3:33:38 GMT -5
What if someone is attracted to men, women, and nonbinary peoples? That does that make them trisexual?
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Totorob101
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Post by Totorob101 on Jun 23, 2021 4:05:45 GMT -5
Good for her,I might be wrong but quite a few women on the roster are bi/gay which is so cool,not to many on the male side of things which I hope changes one day.Im actually asexual myself,so I'd love to see an asexual talent in the future.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 6:21:47 GMT -5
What if someone is attracted to men, women, and nonbinary peoples? That does that make them trisexual? :P Pansexual is typically the term used for that, though really most bi people probably wouldn't take issue with nonbinary people anyway and bi / pan are while not completely interchangeable depending on how someone chooses to define them still largely an overlap.
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Post by avenger on Jun 23, 2021 8:52:24 GMT -5
Toni was born all of a year after homosexuality was no longer deemed a crime in Australia. Also, gay marriage was not legal in Australia until December 2017. Same sex marriage. Bi/pan people marry people of their own gender too.
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Jun 23, 2021 8:54:59 GMT -5
Serious question not attempting to make anyone mad but who cares who she sleeps with? Seriously does it change if you enjoy her work? The world will be a better place when the answer to this is "You're right". However, I don't think we are there yet.
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Heartbreaker
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Post by Heartbreaker on Jun 23, 2021 9:09:03 GMT -5
Also, gay marriage was not legal in Australia until December 2017. Same sex marriage. Bi/pan people marry people of their own gender too. Of course. I could have worded it better.
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67 more
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Post by 67 more on Jun 23, 2021 9:12:01 GMT -5
Also, gay marriage was not legal in Australia until December 2017. Same sex marriage. Bi/pan people marry people of their own gender too. This probably isn't the place for it and I'm probably not the person to speak about it, but I don't think the term gay marriage is necessarily one of bi erasure, as the actual relationship (assuming it is between two cisgender people of the same sex) itself would be homosexual. I can see why same sex would be preferred though, just not sure the term gay marriage should be one to jump on, as gay here is referring to the sexes of the two parties and not automatically the orientations.
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