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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 3, 2021 21:58:51 GMT -5
The thing that hurts Nikki the most IMO is quite frankly not even really her booking...it is how she looks. We are in an age where superheros are argueably bigger than they have ever been atleast in movies and tv and kids in particualr see how cool those costumes look and then we get to Nikki who looks f***ing terrible and there is no doubt kids are like...that is a superhero? and probably then comparing in their mind this compared to all the other female comicbook characters they have been watching and going...yuck. This is something that pop culture in general is going to have to reckon with. Nikki's costume is very, very much of the era where "superhero" meant Adam West or Christopher Reeve. That's very distant from the last 15 years of superheroes in movies and TV. Not only does it fall short in that light, but when you compare it to cosplay. Superheroes are a hugely popular cosplay option and for years now we have seen hobbyists and semi-professionals put together incredibly accurate and incredibly good looking superhero costumes. Not just two primary colours and a logo. It'd be one thing if these sorts of outfits were still the realms of big Hollywood productions, but it's got to deal with the last 15 years of people in their basement making sick Venom costumes too. It looks so bad and looks so cheap that it's honestly a mark against whoever made the gear. An amateur in 2021 should be putting together something that looks better than that shit.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Aug 3, 2021 22:52:37 GMT -5
I don't really feel like doing actual design work right now, maybe later, but if I were doing a costume for this Nikki ASH concept, off the top of my head I would probably do something like...
- Instead of a mask, face paint. It gives you a lot more freedom to do something dynamic with the visuals and would probably look a lot cooler.
- Ditch the blue for kind of a splotchy dark grey, really play into the whole ash thing even if they're refusing to actually say it for some idiot reason.
- Kickpads instead of the generic boots / kneepads combo she has now, it's just a better look and a lot more superhero-ish.
- Go with ash arm sleeves instead of the stripey wrist band things she has now.
- Try and do a logo themed around the ASH letters rather than the generic butterfly. If you want to keep the butterfly symbolism you can do that but it should be made more clear in the character how a butterfly is a metaphor for the gimmick as a whole instead of just being this kind of weird tacked-on nonsense like it is now.
- Ditch the shitty little cape for an entrance jacket. I'm picturing kind of a Black Canary-esque look for her entrance, it feels more appropriate.
Those are all just rough ideas off the top of my head, probably be refined to be a lot better than what I'm laying out here, but I think they'd be gigantic improvements.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 3, 2021 23:32:35 GMT -5
I think the real magic with this gimmick, and what makes it special, in that across the several threads we've had on it, people have lots of different fixes and ideas or how this could be done better and suggestions on even just minor presentational things to perk it up a bit, and they span a lot of interesting and diverse options. Which tells me there are a lot of ways to do these kinds of gimmicks that could work better and WWE has settled on maybe the worst, laziest, and most poorly presented version of the wrestling superhero.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2021 23:33:57 GMT -5
Not to get on her for her gear but she needs to hit up Ricochet. He's got a lot of gear that looks like he'd fit in as a "modern superhero" from just him coming out. Not even talking about the music and entrance but from a look? He's got it.
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Post by sarkerpolseng on Aug 3, 2021 23:37:27 GMT -5
Pretty awesome she main events a Raw and she won clean.
Edit: Nikki Cross (A.S.H.) pinned Charlotte Flair clean, one on one, in the main event on Raw, in Chicago. Kind of disappointed that it took four pages for this to be said.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Aug 4, 2021 1:02:39 GMT -5
Not to get on her for her gear but she needs to hit up Ricochet. He's got a lot of gear that looks like he'd fit in as a "modern superhero" from just him coming out. Not even talking about the music and entrance but from a look? He's got it. Those are just flat out Nightwing costumes though? Not a wholly original idea... but like straight up Nightwing cosplay. Like Rey does. Edit: That said I think the outfit she has now is fine for a base/starter outfit.. the problem is she's already the champion... so like she should be in the fully formed outfit by now... the mask can use a lot of work and facepaint might be a good starting point (hell the Hurricane's outfit for multiple generations of the otufit was facepaint.) but the blue spandex unitard thing is fine for a base outfit... But like the Logo needs to better represent the gimmick I get the butterfly metaphor for the overall idea but... she's still called Nikki A.S.H. which has nothing to do with butterflies... I will also state the outfit is a hell of a lot better than Helms' fisrt gear... which was like a black shirt with a brown H and black pants >_>
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Post by Banjo Is Broken on Aug 4, 2021 1:54:55 GMT -5
How can you all talk jive about Nikki's costume? Have you seen how good her butt looks in it?!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 2:53:47 GMT -5
Not to get on her for her gear but she needs to hit up Ricochet. He's got a lot of gear that looks like he'd fit in as a "modern superhero" from just him coming out. Not even talking about the music and entrance but from a look? He's got it. Those are just flat out Nightwing costumes though? Not a wholly original idea... but like straight up Nightwing cosplay. Like Rey does. Edit: That said I think the outfit she has now is fine for a base/starter outfit.. the problem is she's already the champion... so like she should be in the fully formed outfit by now... the mask can use a lot of work and facepaint might be a good starting point (hell the Hurricane's outfit for multiple generations of the otufit was facepaint.) but the blue spandex unitard thing is fine for a base outfit... But like the Logo needs to better represent the gimmick I get the butterfly metaphor for the overall idea but... she's still called Nikki A.S.H. which has nothing to do with butterflies... I will also state the outfit is a hell of a lot better than Helms' fisrt gear... which was like a black shirt with a brown H and black pants >_> Yeah it's Nightwing. He's done other things such as All Might from MHA as well but it's mostly just different variations of the style.
Maybe she's just starting off like this and she'll gradually get a better outfit. I don't know but I doubt she'll look like this 2-3 years from now. She's probably evolving over time so yeah, we'll see.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Aug 4, 2021 2:55:14 GMT -5
Those are just flat out Nightwing costumes though? Not a wholly original idea... but like straight up Nightwing cosplay. Like Rey does. Edit: That said I think the outfit she has now is fine for a base/starter outfit.. the problem is she's already the champion... so like she should be in the fully formed outfit by now... the mask can use a lot of work and facepaint might be a good starting point (hell the Hurricane's outfit for multiple generations of the otufit was facepaint.) but the blue spandex unitard thing is fine for a base outfit... But like the Logo needs to better represent the gimmick I get the butterfly metaphor for the overall idea but... she's still called Nikki A.S.H. which has nothing to do with butterflies... I will also state the outfit is a hell of a lot better than Helms' fisrt gear... which was like a black shirt with a brown H and black pants >_> Yeah it's Nightwing. He's done other things such as All Might from MHA as well but it's mostly just different variations of the style.
Maybe she's just starting off like this and she'll gradually get a better outfit. I don't know but I doubt she'll look like this 2-3 years from now. She's probably evolving over time so yeah, we'll see.
again I said the biggest issues is that she basically started the gimmick and is now the champion while still in the feeling otu stages of the gimmick... it's just way rushed basically.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Aug 4, 2021 9:46:43 GMT -5
I don't know if it's just them waiting for SummerSlam or what but the idea that she doesn't have merch already is kind of wacky.
I do agree the costume needs an overhaul. I think the color palette needs to be darker - like black leather/kevlar style material with blue and yellow accents. Then again, it is for the kids, so I get BRIGHT COLORS!
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 4, 2021 10:03:25 GMT -5
Not to get on her for her gear but she needs to hit up Ricochet. He's got a lot of gear that looks like he'd fit in as a "modern superhero" from just him coming out. Not even talking about the music and entrance but from a look? He's got it. Those are just flat out Nightwing costumes though? Not a wholly original idea... but like straight up Nightwing cosplay. Like Rey does. Edit: That said I think the outfit she has now is fine for a base/starter outfit.. the problem is she's already the champion... so like she should be in the fully formed outfit by now... the mask can use a lot of work and facepaint might be a good starting point (hell the Hurricane's outfit for multiple generations of the otufit was facepaint.) but the blue spandex unitard thing is fine for a base outfit... But like the Logo needs to better represent the gimmick I get the butterfly metaphor for the overall idea but... she's still called Nikki A.S.H. which has nothing to do with butterflies... I will also state the outfit is a hell of a lot better than Helms' fisrt gear... which was like a black shirt with a brown H and black pants >_> It's just a Nightwing cosplayu, but the idea is in all the details that it has. That's how superheroes look right now, and everyone is just compressed down to make it into a suit one can wear while wrestling. The sensibilities are what need to be looked at there. What Nikki has now is dead basic in a "school kid's notebook superhero doodle from the 1970s" kind of way. The patterns, the general lack of detail or accent. It's a gimmick for kids, but its visual language is completely foreign to what kids see from superheroes. The ones they see even in cartoons have more detail than this.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Aug 4, 2021 10:05:53 GMT -5
I think the real magic with this gimmick, and what makes it special, in that across the several threads we've had on it, people have lots of different fixes and ideas or how this could be done better and suggestions on even just minor presentational things to perk it up a bit, and they span a lot of interesting and diverse options. Which tells me there are a lot of ways to do these kinds of gimmicks that could work better and WWE has settled on maybe the worst, laziest, and most poorly presented version of the wrestling superhero. IDK how you make a f***ing wrestling superhero cookie cutter and bland but WWE did it. Amazing stuff, borderlining on horrifying. They really can suck the fun out of ANYTHING, haha.
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thehottag
Don Corleone
We're here for one reason only: fame, fortune, & the World Wrestling Federation Tag Team Champions!
Posts: 1,668
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Post by thehottag on Aug 4, 2021 10:51:17 GMT -5
Pretty awesome she main events a Raw and she won clean. Edit: Nikki Cross (A.S.H.) pinned Charlotte Flair clean, one on one, in the main event on Raw, in Chicago. Kind of disappointed that it took four pages for this to be said. Sounds great on paper. Do you know how many offensive moves Nikki got in during the 14 minute match? Four. Four moves. The announcers also mentioned it was a 'miracle' that Nikki won. She's the champion! Why aren't they treating her like one?
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Post by sarkerpolseng on Aug 4, 2021 12:33:55 GMT -5
Pretty awesome she main events a Raw and she won clean. Edit: Nikki Cross (A.S.H.) pinned Charlotte Flair clean, one on one, in the main event on Raw, in Chicago. Kind of disappointed that it took four pages for this to be said. Sounds great on paper. Do you know how many offensive moves Nikki got in during the 14 minute match? Four. Four moves. The announcers also mentioned it was a 'miracle' that Nikki won. She's the champion! Why aren't they treating her like one? I agree. There is SOME positive in this though.
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deezy
Don Corleone
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Post by deezy on Aug 4, 2021 14:25:37 GMT -5
Pretty awesome she main events a Raw and she won clean. Edit: Nikki Cross (A.S.H.) pinned Charlotte Flair clean, one on one, in the main event on Raw, in Chicago. Kind of disappointed that it took four pages for this to be said. Sounds great on paper. Do you know how many offensive moves Nikki got in during the 14 minute match? Four. Four moves. The announcers also mentioned it was a 'miracle' that Nikki won. She's the champion! Why aren't they treating her like one? Probably because how she won it. Didn't defeat Charlotte straight up so now she is having to prove she is worthy of the title. Last week losing Didn't help. But this week regardless of how much offense she got in it still counts as a victory. So she is starting to show she is worthy. Seems like its a step by step process though. That's just my opinion of how it's going down. Might not be the best approach of making her a legit champ.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
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Post by Chiral on Aug 4, 2021 14:31:34 GMT -5
I don't know if it's just them waiting for SummerSlam or what but the idea that she doesn't have merch already is kind of wacky. I do agree the costume needs an overhaul. I think the color palette needs to be darker - like black leather/kevlar style material with blue and yellow accents. Then again, it is for the kids, so I get BRIGHT COLORS! Yeah the merch not existing reeks of "we decided we're doing this NOW no planning necessary who cares about merch money we'll get to it eventually everyone shut up" style WWE rushing headfirst into something then getting bored of it almost as quickly.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Aug 4, 2021 14:38:01 GMT -5
I don't know if it's just them waiting for SummerSlam or what but the idea that she doesn't have merch already is kind of wacky. I do agree the costume needs an overhaul. I think the color palette needs to be darker - like black leather/kevlar style material with blue and yellow accents. Then again, it is for the kids, so I get BRIGHT COLORS! Yeah the merch not existing reeks of "we decided we're doing this NOW no planning necessary who cares about merch money we'll get to it eventually everyone shut up" style WWE rushing headfirst into something then getting bored of it almost as quickly. As I said even the gear reeks of first draft we'll work on it as we build the gimmick up... but now she's the champion... without the fully formed gimmick... it'd be like if Hurricane did all of his schtick with the black pants, block yellow H attire he started with... edit: for reference as to what I'm talking about
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 14:38:06 GMT -5
Not to get on her for her gear but she needs to hit up Ricochet. He's got a lot of gear that looks like he'd fit in as a "modern superhero" from just him coming out. Not even talking about the music and entrance but from a look? He's got it. God, not to completely change the subject, but this feels like 10 billion years ago when Ricochet wasn't the laughing stock of the roster.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 14:48:13 GMT -5
Not to get on her for her gear but she needs to hit up Ricochet. He's got a lot of gear that looks like he'd fit in as a "modern superhero" from just him coming out. Not even talking about the music and entrance but from a look? He's got it. God, not to completely change the subject, but this feels like 10 billion years ago when Ricochet wasn't the laughing stock of the roster. What's sadder is that it doesn't take much to make Ricochet a highlight again. The Morrison stuff, the MITB ladder match, he's proven within the past few weeks he's still that dude. He just needs to keep on with these feuds. What he's doing now with Morrison, Miz and Priest is pretty cool. Just keep him in that realm of midcarders who can work and he'll be fine. But he needs to be above that. It's like they forget he can really go. Once he busts out a move they remember again.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Aug 5, 2021 0:52:52 GMT -5
God, not to completely change the subject, but this feels like 10 billion years ago when Ricochet wasn't the laughing stock of the roster. What's sadder is that it doesn't take much to make Ricochet a highlight again. The Morrison stuff, the MITB ladder match, he's proven within the past few weeks he's still that dude. He just needs to keep on with these feuds. What he's doing now with Morrison, Miz and Priest is pretty cool. Just keep him in that realm of midcarders who can work and he'll be fine. But he needs to be above that. It's like they forget he can really go. Once he busts out a move they remember again. Just do a few weeks of vignettes of him as the human highlight reel stuff and he's pretty much back.
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