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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 9, 2021 14:18:44 GMT -5
There is a statute of limitation on public opinion. Anything racist Flair did (that has been acknowledged publicly) is back dated enough to where it doesn't register with people. Same reason why Austin beating Debra up repeatedly is virtually ignored now because it happened a long time ago. Hogan's tape was made public in 2015, right when social media (and outrage culture) was starting to boom. If Flair said the N-Word in 2015 and Teddy Long accused Hogan of racism from 20-30 years ago, then Flair would be exiled and Hogan would be much higher in public perception. Unfortunately, that's just the way society is now. From shoot interviews I've heard over the years, former talent that worked with Hogan (even the ones that hate him) never mentioned racism. If Flair said the N-Word to a black person in a negative manner, then that's worse than what Hogan did, IMO. It really isn't It gets brought up constantly on here. People remember but there is also a thing of 2nd chance and him not being that type of man anymore
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2021 16:55:12 GMT -5
There is a statute of limitation on public opinion. Anything racist Flair did (that has been acknowledged publicly) is back dated enough to where it doesn't register with people. Same reason why Austin beating Debra up repeatedly is virtually ignored now because it happened a long time ago. Hogan's tape was made public in 2015, right when social media (and outrage culture) was starting to boom. If Flair said the N-Word in 2015 and Teddy Long accused Hogan of racism from 20-30 years ago, then Flair would be exiled and Hogan would be much higher in public perception. Unfortunately, that's just the way society is now. From shoot interviews I've heard over the years, former talent that worked with Hogan (even the ones that hate him) never mentioned racism. If Flair said the N-Word to a black person in a negative manner, then that's worse than what Hogan did, IMO. It really isn't It gets brought up constantly on here. People remember but there is also a thing of 2nd chance and him not being that type of man anymore Sure but the level of forgiveness for a man beating his wife (more than once) versus the vitriol Hogan gets for saying racist things in private is definitely a sign of bias. When the much lesser of the two acts is more vilified, something is wrong. Even Flair calling Long the N word is worse. Of the three, Hogan did something that should be the most forgivable and yet he’s held most accountable. It makes no sense. I’m not supporting Hulk in this. What he said was obviously wrong, but just pointing out the hypocrisy.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 9, 2021 17:25:22 GMT -5
It really isn't It gets brought up constantly on here. People remember but there is also a thing of 2nd chance and him not being that type of man anymore Sure but the level of forgiveness for a man beating his wife (more than once) versus the vitriol Hogan gets for saying racist things in private is definitely a sign of bias. When the much lesser of the two acts is more vilified, something is wrong. Even Flair calling Long the N word is worse. Of the three, Hogan did something that should be the most forgivable and yet he’s held most accountable. It makes no sense. I’m not supporting Hulk in this. What he said was obviously wrong, but just pointing out the hypocrisy. Yes and no What happened with Steve and by extension Flair (if it did happen), happened 20 years ago or more. Hogan was recent. He's on camera. His "apology" or lack thereof was hot garbage. It makes sense because if he was truly sorry about what he said it would came across but it didn't There is no hypocrisy here. What Steve did was wrong but it did not happen recently and the hope is he is a much better man than he was before. With Hogan, he doomed himself. He is own worst enemy. Flair is only rumor
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 9, 2021 17:42:51 GMT -5
Steve has shown remorse. A lot of people have not in fact given him any benefit of the doubt since, but a lot have because he regrets it. Hogan hasn't found nearly as much because his apologies have all been complete disasters. He has been absolutely abysmal time and again with expressing any kind of remorse of realization for his actions beyond the fact he got caught. I dunno, this whataboutism always starts to get into the territory of that time someone complained everyone's mad at Hulk Hogan's racism but not the Ultimate Warrior's bigotry when buried an entire page deep in the WWE section was a huge thread about how WWE has been whitewashing Warrior's legacy. Mike Tyson can't show up on Dynamite without a conversation on the merits of 'serving his time'. The reductionism and the general ignoring of what people actually say on these topics while turning them into malformed, half-thought-out gotchas is really weak, and the bad faith of "You don't actually care about racism you just want to be mad at Hulk Hogan" is one of the most insidious takes you can broadly project across pretty much a whole board's population.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Aug 9, 2021 17:57:52 GMT -5
With Flair, there's a degree of uncertainty about what was said or if it was said because veterans say all kinds of things in shoots that may or may not be true, personally I'm inclined to believe it as there's too much of that smoke for there not to be fire, but I can see why others don't. With Hogan, there is no doubt, he said it, it's out there and his reaction wasn't to apologise or even to try and do damage control, he tried to go on like nothing happened, with people like Booker T reaching out to try and help him only to be told, 'Nah, I'm good brother'. He went on a nonpology tour when pretending it was all fine didn't work, sued Gawker and to this day, he doesn't seem sorry he said it, only that he got caught, same as when he got in trouble for steroids, same as when he told his son the guy he left needing lifelong medical care deserved it, or when he said he thought Coronavirus was god's wrath and humanity deserved it.
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Nr1Humanoid
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Aug 10, 2021 10:34:59 GMT -5
Hogan would have gone under the radar more too if he had the brains to shut the f*** up about it afterwards, yet, alas.
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Post by jason1980s on Aug 10, 2021 10:52:24 GMT -5
I saw a good photo on google images not too long ago, it shows Piper, Warrior and Savage and had the quote "die young and become a hero" and had a photo of Hogan which said "or live long and become the villain" and it is very true. Not that the other guys were perfect saints but Hogan I think is on a different level of disgusting behavior. The lies, the jailhouse conversation and the sex tape comments are just a bit too much to like this guy.
I get wrestling is based on a work but how low can you go claiming you met a fan backstage dying of cancer and dedicated a song to him and yet YOU definitely were not at the show. I first started seeing how bad he was during the jailhouse conversation with pulling the carny bullcrap code so no one listening in could understand what they were saying although it was pretty obvious along with the entertaining his son's thoughts about having a realty show after everything was finished.
I am also proud of Linda for taking Hogan for what she did, I wish it had been more. She learned from the best, use everyone you can on your way to the top without a care in the world for anyone but yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2021 12:29:32 GMT -5
Sure but the level of forgiveness for a man beating his wife (more than once) versus the vitriol Hogan gets for saying racist things in private is definitely a sign of bias. When the much lesser of the two acts is more vilified, something is wrong. Even Flair calling Long the N word is worse. Of the three, Hogan did something that should be the most forgivable and yet he’s held most accountable. It makes no sense. I’m not supporting Hulk in this. What he said was obviously wrong, but just pointing out the hypocrisy. Yes and no What happened with Steve and by extension Flair (if it did happen), happened 20 years ago or more. Hogan was recent. He's on camera. His "apology" or lack thereof was hot garbage. It makes sense because if he was truly sorry about what he said it would came across but it didn't There is no hypocrisy here. What Steve did was wrong but it did not happen recently and the hope is he is a much better man than he was before. With Hogan, he doomed himself. He is own worst enemy. Flair is only rumor I agree recency plays a part. Like I said before, if Hogan was a racist in 2001 and Austin beat his wife in 2015, their roles in the court of public opinion would be reversed despite the actions being the same. But the OP asked why Hogan got flack while others (Flair in particular) don't for doing similar or worse things (in this case racism). I'd include Piper in there as well who has been accused of it in shoot interviews. I'm not sure what the answer could be other than bias or hypocrisy, and it's not just wrestling fans, it is everyone who likes to flex their morality on social media. It's very common to see people bring up one thing for someone, and ignore it for someone else. I mean, it's their choice to dislike whoever they want, but I don't think it's wrong to call out the hypocrisy. For the record, I don't judge Austin or Flair or whoever for stuff they said or did. It happened in the past and you can't change the past, only learn from it. I'm talking about the people who constantly harp on these things. That's where the bias can set in because naturally we like certain people more than others and the bias can be unintended. The unfortunate reality is that wrestling in the 70's and 80's was predominantly white and southern. There's a good chance most of them were racist or had racist views.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 11, 2021 14:50:12 GMT -5
It’s harder for Hogan than Flair not just because we heard Hulk saying all that revolting crap and Ric only has hearsay, Ric has also become a bit of an idol in hip hop culture. And given that artform’s origins, that’s obviously going to trickle down to Black culture somewhat.
If Ric really said that stuff, then shame on him obviously and hopefully he’s grown past those kinds of attitudes, but no one saw him with “the knife”.
We’ve got Hulk’s bloody knife of stupidity in the forensic bag, and his yellow footprints at the crime scene. Perry Mason couldn’t acquit him.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Aug 11, 2021 18:47:01 GMT -5
It’s harder for Hogan than Flair not just because we heard Hulk saying all that revolting crap and Ric only has hearsay, Ric has also become a bit of an idol in hip hop culture. And given that artform’s origins, that’s obviously going to trickle down to Black culture somewhat. If Ric really said that stuff, then shame on him obviously and hopefully he’s grown past those kinds of attitudes, but no one saw him with “the knife”. We’ve got Hulk’s bloody knife of stupidity in the forensic bag, and his yellow footprints at the crime scene. Perry Mason couldn’t acquit him. Hogan also keeps coming back and saying "I'm not racist y'all but why does Obama get to say the N word and I don't?!?!?". It's like he thinks "maybe this time they'll agree and I won't be reminding people of why they dislike me at all!"
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Post by kingoftheindies on Aug 11, 2021 18:55:46 GMT -5
Didn't Hulk also try to do the "it's cool Titus and the New Day forgave me" angle when that wasn't the case?
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Aug 11, 2021 19:02:31 GMT -5
Didn't Hulk also try to do the "it's cool Titus and the New Day forgave me" angle when that wasn't the case? He turned his apology to the roster into a publicity stunt with all these video cameras where it was pretty obvious he was more concerned with people seeing him saying he was sorry than actually meaning it. Big E apparently left in disgust, and the sentiment was shared by pretty much every else.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Aug 11, 2021 20:00:03 GMT -5
Hogan also became more of a celebrity outside wrestling due to his reality show and other projects, and was therefore in the spotlight more than most wrestlers would be. Everybody knows who Hulk Hogan is whether they watch wrestling or not, so hearing he used the N-word would generate much more of a reaction than hearing Flair or Michael Hayes said it, or that Brian Kendrick posted a Holocaust denial video. Most people in those cases, while not condoning it, would jus say “Who?”
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Post by jimmyjames on Aug 12, 2021 3:45:40 GMT -5
Another thing is that Hulk Hogan was always seen was being close to and friends, on camera and in real life with Black people, like Mr. T at a time in wrestling and with celebrities it wasn't seen as much, even in the 8s and 90s. In the mid 90s by mother was watching LifeStyles of the Richa nd Famous or some show like ti and it was focused on him and there were pictures of him and his friends some of whom were Black. For someone who grew up in the 80sbut didn't follow wrestling, to hear Hogan saying what he said on a sex tape while talking about his daughter having sex, was pretty disgusting in many different ways, but also really shocking. The whole thing was just bad.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 12, 2021 4:04:10 GMT -5
Didn't Hulk also try to do the "it's cool Titus and the New Day forgave me" angle when that wasn't the case? He turned his apology to the roster into a publicity stunt with all these video cameras where it was pretty obvious he was more concerned with people seeing him saying he was sorry than actually meaning it. Big E apparently left in disgust, and the sentiment was shared by pretty much every else. Not shocking. Big E has said that he believes a path of redemption should be open to anyone, but I mean, Hogan would still got to actually walk it. He hasn't.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 12, 2021 4:16:00 GMT -5
Also has to be said, some corners of the media aren't exactly making him learn from it.
Like, a movie is being made about his life, or at least in production, with friggin' Thor playing him.
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Aug 12, 2021 9:28:19 GMT -5
Hogan also became more of a celebrity outside wrestling due to his reality show and other projects, and was therefore in the spotlight more than most wrestlers would be. Everybody knows who Hulk Hogan is whether they watch wrestling or not, so hearing he used the N-word would generate much more of a reaction than hearing Flair or Michael Hayes said it, or that Brian Kendrick posted a Holocaust denial video. Most people in those cases, while not condoning it, would jus say “Who?” No, not Jim Neidheart. He only played a Klansman, as far as I know.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Aug 12, 2021 11:03:20 GMT -5
I genuinely think workrate has a factor in it. I do think Hogan is maybe a little bit underrated but as he’s not in the same league as other wrestlers who have said or done things just as bad (or worse) than Hogan it’s easier to dislike him. I mentioned this before and I still stand by it. Kliq-era Shawn Michaels was a bigger politician than Hogan, was a bigger dick backstage and dick onstage. Yet, his (rightful) status as one of the greatest workers ever seems to dull the dickishness for some. And I’m not excusing “born-again” Shawn either as there are plenty of stories about his behaviour since the comeback. Flair sometimes gets a free pass because he’s “naitchin’”. Because exposing yourself to people is somehow acceptable when you’re staggering around drunk. I admit, I’m a Hogan mark and I cannot for one second condone the shit that he said (or anything else he did for that matter) but I do think there’s a double-standard when it comes to him. I agree with every word of this.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Aug 13, 2021 14:50:17 GMT -5
As well as the reasons said, for me personally it's because people seem to trip over themselves defending what he did. I still remember the initial thread when the racist comment came to light. It was FULL of people rushing to his defense. You wanna talk double standards? I've seen people claim that Hogan should be forgiven purely on the basis that he was their childhood. Flair is pretty much a running joke at this point, and if a racist tape came to light you could bet people wouldn't let him off easy. With Hogan, people DO look the other way (maybe not so much here today, but try to mention him anywhere else and you'd better have nothing but praise or god help you), so I can understand why there seems to be a need to try to really drill it into people's skulls that he flipped out over a black man daring to date his daughter.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 13, 2021 15:15:42 GMT -5
Ric Flair openly supported infamous segregationist politician Jesse Helms so I don't think his past racism is as much a secret or hearsay as people want to think it is.
I'm not a big fan of Ric Flair the person. All that said, Hogan is just such an unrepentant douchebag that the racism is just the cherry on top of the shit sundae.
Hogan could've never said the n-word in his rant (and he did use the n-word multiple times), and what he said in his rant is far worse that anything Flair was accused of in terms of his racism. Calling a Black person the n-word is awful, but Hogan used straight up white supremacist rhetoric.
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