Hogan/Flair issue

[Edge of Insanity]

First off, I want to say in no way is this me defending or justifying anything. But why is it that Hogan is vilified and disliked so much by alot of fans due to his racism and the video. But Ric Flair doesn't get the same hate when there have been people who have spoken about his racism. Teddy Long mentions it in his shoot interviews saying Flair would call him the n word.

[Mozenrath]

I think this is a valid question. Honestly, I think a major reason is Hogan is the bigger name*, so it comes up more, but more importantly, his spiel was caught on camera, where in addition to saying the n-word, he also essentially said he didn't want black people in his gene pool, which is on a whole other tier of racist.

(*. I mean, he IS the bigger name. That isn't me denigrating the NWA or whatever, but in terms of spotlight and crossover fans, etc. There's a reason Ric worked Hogan so many times when some other WCW stars were reluctant, and that because Flair coveted Hogan's stardom outside of the wrestling sphere, which eluded him until quite late in his career.)

But yeah, even if I think some of it also comes from people who otherwise didn't like Hogan having a more concrete reason to point to, the biggest thing is that having video/audio evidence is more damning to a lot of people than testimony.

[cassonova]

I definitely think it is a combination of concrete evidence and accessibility.
Hogan was caught on tape stating his racist thoughts. That tape also went viral.
As for Flair, we really only have anecdotes and second hand stories. As horrible as it is, there's nothing concrete to sway opinions. Add to the fact that shoot interviews, however common nowadays, aren't widely viewed, compared to a lot of media.

[DiBiase is Good]

I genuinely think workrate has a factor in it.
I do think Hogan is maybe a little bit underrated but as he’s not in the same league as other wrestlers who have said or done things just as bad (or worse) than Hogan it’s easier to dislike him.
I mentioned this before and I still stand by it. Kliq-era Shawn Michaels was a bigger politician than Hogan, was a bigger dick backstage and dick onstage. Yet, his (rightful) status as one of the greatest workers ever seems to dull the dickishness for some. And I’m not excusing “born-again” Shawn either as there are plenty of stories about his behaviour since the comeback.
Flair sometimes gets a free pass because he’s “naitchin’”. Because exposing yourself to people is somehow acceptable when you’re staggering around drunk.

I admit, I’m a Hogan mark and I cannot for one second condone the shit that he said (or anything else he did for that matter) but I do think there’s a double-standard when it comes to him.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Hogan is on tape saying it

If Flair was on tape saying anything crazy he would be absolutely vilified but I really haven't looked or heard of anything Flair saying stuff like that. If there is enough fire it would gain traction like how everything gained traction when Tessa said what she said and had a bunch of people back it up

[Mozenrath]

Aug 8, 2021 16:19:35 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Hogan is on tape saying it

If Flair was on tape saying anything crazy he would be absolutely vilified but I really haven't looked or heard of anything Flair saying stuff like that. If there is enough fire it would gain traction like how everything gained traction when Tessa said what she said and had a bunch of people back it up

Yeah, there had been murmurings of Tessa being a bully, obviously, or otherwise a jerk, and there was stuff that remains unsubstantiated, like claiming she revealed Mae Young Classic spoilers as revenge for being eliminated, which I think is more dubious, but yeah, the heat only really caught up to Tessa when she started running her mouth on social media around the time of her winning the world title, with Priscilla Kelly and a lot of other people getting tired of her two-faced behavior, rallying for women to support women, while also having screwed with them professionally.

That was I think followed by the La Rosa Negra/Black Rose incident coming to light, with, was it Shanna who mentioned it first? I forget, I know La Rosa Negra herself hadn't pursued it but confirmed it as having happened, along with people like Big Swole who had apparently tried to mediate a cleaning of the slate, with Tessa not going for it despite La Rose Negra saying she forgives Tessa but that Tessa needs to grow up and own up that it happened.

[Viking Hall]

I think for the same reason as Hogan gets called out for a lot of shit other people have also done, he's spent the majority of his career painting himself as this whiter than white, clean cut hero when in reality, he was actually quite shitty some of the time.

Flair has never painted himself as being some kind of Angel, quite the opposite in fact.

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

It is a double standard. But we can't discount how we know about it. In Flair's case we've only heard about it second hand from people. With Hogan, well there it is at the end of his horrifying sex tape. It's one thing to hear someone say something, another thing entirely to actually see it. So, it's terrible either way but Hogan flat out going on a racist tirade on tape makes it a lot more real, if that makes any sense. I'm also going to say that when the sex tape/racist rant came out, people were already sick of him for a lot of other reasons, whereas Flair (somewhat inexplicably when you really think of it) still had and has a lot of good will with fans.

[Push R Truth]

I honestly think kayfabe is also in play just a little bit: Hogan was portrayed mostly as a good guy and Flair mostly as a son of a bitch. Therefore it's more noteworthy for Hogan to be outed as a piece of shit. For Flair you get a little bit of "well he's a heel and he is from the South" so it's not especially surprising.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

A lot of people had a previous intense, irrational hatred of Hogan, so his racist rant finally gave them a reasonable justification for hating the guy.

[Tiger Millionaire]

Video.

[Deleted]

Aug 8, 2021 18:11:27 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

A lot of people had a previous intense, irrational hatred of Hogan, so his racist rant finally gave them a reasonable justification for hating the guy.

I don't think it's irrational when you think about Hogan's history.  I mean, the guy never really respected anyone in the industry, was arguably the most selfish wrestler in history, never wanted to work with anybody unless it benefitted him in the end, and spent decades lying and bullshitting events by saying whoppers that you just have to shake your head at him.  All the while spending years trying to protect this wholesome, All-American image that was on TV.  In short, Hulk Hogan only cared for Hulk Hogan.  And anyone who fell for him was a total dumbass who deserved ruination, and shame on them.

Meanwhile, Ric Flair... to his credit, he's not a perfect person.  For God's sake, he's in his 70s, and he's still drinking himself stupid.  And I can guarantee you that Flair most likely said offensive stuff.  But, the difference is... we know without a shadow of a doubt that Hogan said racist stuff, while Flair saying racist stuff is conjecture.  And the laundry list of Hogan being a rotten person versus Flair being a rotten person stacks heavily against Hogan.  This isn't saying Flair's a saint, because he sure as hell ain't.  It just makes the argument against Hogan a helluva lot easier.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Aug 8, 2021 19:34:12 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

Aug 8, 2021 18:11:27 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

A lot of people had a previous intense, irrational hatred of Hogan, so his racist rant finally gave them a reasonable justification for hating the guy.

I don't think it's irrational when you think about Hogan's history.  I mean, the guy never really respected anyone in the industry, was arguably the most selfish wrestler in history, never wanted to work with anybody unless it benefitted him in the end, and spent decades lying and bullshitting events by saying whoppers that you just have to shake your head at him.  All the while spending years trying to protect this wholesome, All-American image that was on TV.  In short, Hulk Hogan only cared for Hulk Hogan.  And anyone who fell for him was a total dumbass who deserved ruination, and shame on them.

Meanwhile, Ric Flair... to his credit, he's not a perfect person.  For God's sake, he's in his 70s, and he's still drinking himself stupid.  And I can guarantee you that Flair most likely said offensive stuff.  But, the difference is... we know without a shadow of a doubt that Hogan said racist stuff, while Flair saying racist stuff is conjecture.  And the laundry list of Hogan being a rotten person versus Flair being a rotten person stacks heavily against Hogan.  This isn't saying Flair's a saint, because he sure as hell ain't.  It just makes the argument against Hogan a helluva lot easier.

All of this is projection. All of it.

[Deleted]

Because people like Flair and dislike Hogan.

[Final Countdown Jones]

I never bought the "people like one and not the other" idea because if that were true, detractors of Triple H--who is famously loathed by what is still a very strong portion of the fandom--would be able to more loudly express their disdain for the allegations of being racist to guys like Ricardo Rodriguez. It doesn't go anywhere because it's allegations buried in shoot interviews nobody is watching compared to a rant broadcast in the mainstream news and at the center of a massive lawsuit. Lots of people dislike Flair for lots of shit; the claims of his sexual misconduct are many and they form a reason plenty of people loathe him, too. It's easier to get him for the sex stuff than it is for the accusation of racism. They just weren't filmed and broadcast nationally.

[Edge of Insanity]

Aug 8, 2021 19:34:12 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

Aug 8, 2021 18:11:27 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

A lot of people had a previous intense, irrational hatred of Hogan, so his racist rant finally gave them a reasonable justification for hating the guy.

I don't think it's irrational when you think about Hogan's history.  I mean, the guy never really respected anyone in the industry, was arguably the most selfish wrestler in history, never wanted to work with anybody unless it benefitted him in the end, and spent decades lying and bullshitting events by saying whoppers that you just have to shake your head at him.  All the while spending years trying to protect this wholesome, All-American image that was on TV.  In short, Hulk Hogan only cared for Hulk Hogan.  And anyone who fell for him was a total dumbass who deserved ruination, and shame on them.

Meanwhile, Ric Flair... to his credit, he's not a perfect person.  For God's sake, he's in his 70s, and he's still drinking himself stupid.  And I can guarantee you that Flair most likely said offensive stuff.  But, the difference is... we know without a shadow of a doubt that Hogan said racist stuff, while Flair saying racist stuff is conjecture.  And the laundry list of Hogan being a rotten person versus Flair being a rotten person stacks heavily against Hogan.  This isn't saying Flair's a saint, because he sure as hell ain't.  It just makes the argument against Hogan a helluva lot easier.

Let's be honest, they are both horrible people. There are just as many bad things about Flair as Hogan. But Flair seems to get a pass more often. Hell, I bet most of the top guys back then weren't great people.

[Feargus McReddit]

Also, has to be said, Hogan's response to said allegations has been pretty badly botched when it didn't have to be. He did write an apology but he pretty much did everything but backtrack on it since then. So much so you had actual, present WWE superstars, who likely had more to lose by saying something say that they don't feel any need to associate with the guy anymore.

And then they turned around and had Titus, one of those who were outspoken, co-host WrestleMania with Hogan so...

[Deleted]

No offense, but this is the easiest question in the world to answer.

Hogan's on tape. There's no plausible deniability, no one person's word against another's - there he is, going on an unprovoked racist tirade for the world to see. Then he poured gasoline on the fire afterwards by essentially apologizing for getting caught.

Hard video evidence > accusations and hearsay.

[Deleted]

There is a statute of limitation on public opinion. Anything racist Flair did (that has been acknowledged publicly) is back dated enough to where it doesn't register with people. Same reason why Austin beating Debra up repeatedly is virtually ignored now because it happened a long time ago. Hogan's tape was made public in 2015, right when social media (and outrage culture) was starting to boom. If Flair said the N-Word in 2015 and Teddy Long accused Hogan of racism from 20-30 years ago, then Flair would be exiled and Hogan would be much higher in public perception. Unfortunately, that's just the way society is now.

From shoot interviews I've heard over the years, former talent that worked with Hogan (even the ones that hate him) never mentioned racism. If Flair said the N-Word to a black person in a negative manner, then that's worse than what Hogan did, IMO.

[sportatorium]

Hogan was caught on tape and it went through mainstream media. The Teddy Long story about Flair has probably only been read/heard by deep die hard wrestling fans. Not saying the latter makes it excusable or acceptable, but I do think the delivery of the news makes the difference in the overall perception.