The Main Event Racial Diversity Is Getting Better In AEW

[kingoftheindies]

I do think that AEW does clearly have big plans for Will Hobbs, Dante Martin (and Darius when healthy), Jade Cargill, and Rosa Mendes. Also think that AEw really like The Acclaimed too despite Caster's controversy. But yes at some point the getting the POC talent and featuring them needs to advance to more prominent story lines.

I dont want to use this as an excuse but I do wonder how much big names becoming available changed plans for other people as well.

[markymark]

If Andrade keeps up putting the same performance as vs Pac he is going to reach the main event picture soon.

[EP 54 is banned from Collision]

Miro is white obviously, but as a Bulgarian he is a slav, and slavs have had a long history of discrimination. Even in wrestling slavic wrestlers have been pigeonholed as Russian bad guys, so the fact that Miro is presented as a strong, proud Bulgarian slav who's a bad guy because he's a crazy asshole, not because he's somehow the last remnant of the Soviet regime is a point in AEW's favour in my book.

[lucas_lee]

I'm betting we're gonna have the same conversation next year and we'll have the same folks saying to be patient and wait. At some point we need to put AEW to task for putting their money where their mouth is.

[Deleted]

Sept 11, 2021 6:20:33 GMT -5 @negan said:

Honest question.

Do you think someone should be put in the main event because of their skin color?

Right now, I'm not seeing any black wrestlers in AEW who I would consider main event quality. Maybe Scorpio Sky after a push. But then... Who? Powerhouse Hobbs? It's way too early for him right now but maybe after some build.

Unless they get Keith Lee, Ricochet or someone like that then the main event scene is where it should be right now in my opinion.

That's not what we are saying. Nobody is saying they need to slide in a black dude in the main event tomorrow.

What we are saying is this: AEW will be 3 years old in a few months. This company was planned for a while. They saw how minorities were treated in wrestling as a whole and they've mentioned it including diversity, mentioned hating racism and from the jump they've mentioned AEW would be a different wrestling company. Politicians were posting Cody's diversity speeches when it comes to AEW and talent. So here we are years later and nothing has really changed. I'm seeing a lot of responses mention today's talent but what they fail to mention is that we are talking about the years that led up to this point. We aren't talking about them seeing who they have and then going "alright you are a main eventer now", we are talking about years ago when they've decided the kind of company they wanted to be and what they've set out to be and then from that you form your ideal company.

I highly highly doubt that the talent pool was completely taken up by everyone and they couldn't find anyone prior to this, that's impossible. WWE always finds talent at these performance center tryouts, we see wrestlers in other companies such as smaller indies go viral on social media, we know people and their contract statues less compared to those actually in the industry so ideas can be thrown out, talent is there. What likely happened is they were so focused on other things to the point where minority represention was pushed to the back exactly like how we are pushed to the back in other things. So with Cody cutting those diversity speeches, it just sounds like bullshit really. After Kofi's WM win they saw how important represention was and given that, it's easy to adapt. It would be easy to see that and go "alright, that was dope, man let's look for some people now who can fulfill a similar role" in our new company and build them up.

Basically, had they started working on this in the very beginning we could have more minority talent doing well in AEW right now rather than now it getting to the point where they're saying "alright, now let's do it" which is 3 years later. On social media this week there was a huge topic toward black/minority representation to the point where wrestlers like Jade, former WWE writers, people in the industry were all talking about it and it's for a reason. It's very important.

It was a bad plan by AEW and I expected better. Just look at a few people, years ago mind you, and build them up like they've done Darby and that would be it. It's very very very easy to do.

Now, years from now that won't be an issue because we've got the talent they've signed but more than that you've got new talent who will come into the company. You've got guys like Keith Lee and Ricochet who will probably be here, maybe Sasha Banks. Cedric will absolutely be here soon. New Day all signed new contracts in 2019 for a similar deal (Kofi took less money just so he can give his boys more money and the same time as him) so when they jump over together in like 2023-2024 the main event will be fine for them. That's 3 people who will immediately make an impact. Basically at this point we gotta hope that someone who's known and is hot gotta sign to the company all because AEW didn't start building their dudes earlier line they did other areas.

It sucks. People, for as much as they say they can see it, really don't understand how much it sucks not seeing yourself represented. Shit is nasty and it means something to kids to see themselves. So me? No, I'm not just going to "hey sit tight guys and wait" when it comes to it, it's a disconnect to me and it's something that a lot of people cannot fathom as they've never been in similar situations. I will keep watching AEW but I just can't be completely invested in everything until that happens because that is so important to me so when I see WWE having Lashley,, New Day, Bianca, Street Profits, Hit Row, The Bloodline, when I see this it gives more validation to check em out in some areas. The "wait and see" thing is a backhanded comment especially when people online use that "hey guys wait and see" comment when yall are clowning storylines and booking but now you're saying it to people who wanna see themselves represented.

It will be fixed in time (because people will sign to the company) but the fact it isn't fixed after 3 years is a problem. 6 years from now, once New Day gets here, it won't be one but that's 6 years rather than now. Either AEW didn't plan this out well enough, they didn't see how important diversity is or they pushed that to the back like others do.

[kidkamikaze10]

I do think we gotta separate the male and female side of this, because there is a disparity here. AEW's second women's champ is black, and has never lost her prominence in the women's division besides when she was out during the pandemic. Nyla counts. Jade gets a lot of play despite being new to the business, as does Red Velvet, and well, Swole had to force her way into prominence, which really sucks.

I'll avoid the Brandi Rhodes side of things (that's a whole can of worms when it comes to black wrestling), but will say they shouldn't have invested as much on Kong, that felt like a misstep.

This is a way more prominent issue on the male side, where the only black guy with accolades that matter in AEW (as in, not the FTW championship) is Scorpio Sky. Who is mid.


After three years, that's a problem. Year one or so can be blamed on WWE's talent hunt scorching the earth. After that, that's on AEW.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Male and Female side is separate

I was talking the male side

[HMARK Center]

Sept 11, 2021 12:19:51 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

I'm betting we're gonna have the same conversation next year and we'll have the same folks saying to be patient and wait. At some point we need to put AEW to task for putting their money where their mouth is.

Or we can look at the context of where things are and not do that.

Because we really don't have to do what you're saying.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

I wouldn't say be taken to task but they should be held accountable as far as keeping this a talking point just like the constant convo about women getting time

[Can you afford to pay me, Gah]

Sept 10, 2021 14:17:42 GMT -5 @kn said:

Sept 10, 2021 14:03:00 GMT -5 Can you afford to pay me, Gah said:

Will Hobbs as been booked as a all business badass. For a guy who very few knew anything about a year ago, he been coming a long way. Ricky Starks very talented and has all the tools to be a top guy, again its getting the established first because unless you watched the NWA on youtube in 2019, most may not know who he was but the match with Cody he looked amazing and got him noticed. They done a good job with him I think with team Taz. That takes time to do. AEW is 3 years old. That not a lot of time to make guys. Hell Hobbs and Starks didn't start right away. They started last Summer. People forgetting the fact Starks been in the company a year and Hobbs came after him. Scorpio Sky was the first Tag champion and even now in a big role it seems like with the UFC guy. He got to face Sting in Sting first live crowd non cinematic match since his match in WWE. Thats a big spot to be put in. The thing is most of the black talent are from the indies who a lot of fans didn't know about. They where not ex WWE, TNA, or anything like that. They where right out of the indies. So they need a lot more time to build and I don't think AEW has done a bad job in doing that.

I think they'd done a bad job, you can disagree but nah, I don't like it. This sounds like excuses to me.

AEW has been around for 3 years and from the jump they've been talking about diversity, people of color and it being a different wrestling company. I don't think we need to be waiting 3 years for people of color to finally be doing better things because if that's the case then what they said during that first year was just lip service for headlines. Cody had speeches about how much diversity means to him so for us taking this long, nah, that's not dope. Either they didn't look at the landscape well enough and plan this out or they weren't great enough in signing people of color to fulfill their plans. It's not a building issue.

I'm tired of hearing the "well they need more time" excuse when it comes to representation. How many years do we need when it takes 2 months to make somebody a hot main eventer if they wanted to? It's very very easy to make somebody hot in AEW. Even WWE had a cold bad on main roster Bianca the hottest woman on the main roster in 2 months.

The difference is NXT IS ON TV and have there own PPVs and specials and Bianca was on it before her call up and look how well they did her on Summerslam. Thats the thing that WWE has had a problem with, force feed a talent who is either not ready or over see Roman for so long as an example or Charlette who because she a flair get it handed to her. My point is none of these guys where known, and it takes time to get them known. Nobody had a clue who Will Hobbs was a year ago. When AEW started who knew who Private Party was? They didn't have NXT before hand to get exposure and big Takerover PPVs. You comparing two different situations here. How long did it take for Bobby Lashley to become WWE champion in the WWE? Did he not return years ago? And he went through hell before the push started remember that nonsense with Lana? Yea it wasn't until LAST Year he went Main Event. Will Hobbs as been build strongly. Ricky Starks strongly. Just because they are not in the last match of the night doesn't mean they are not being used greatly. They will be there soon enough. Hobbs looks like he about to face Punk. You have any idea how much stock Hobbs stock is going to raise from that? because the world knows who Punk is so eyes will watch that match and Hobbs has a great showing much like Darby, he stock is going to go up because more people are going to see how good he is. Hobbs is on his way and so is Starks who I think after Hobbs will be next to face Punk. If you facing Punk your likely in a ME match.

The point is Bianca had NXT to raise her stock and was called up close to a year ago it was not 2 months she was with street profits during the pandamic shows. So it was longer than that. The talent AEW has where guys from the indies that unless you where in the area those shows where, your not going to know who they are.

[Deleted]

Sept 11, 2021 13:17:06 GMT -5 Can you afford to pay me, Gah said:

Sept 10, 2021 14:17:42 GMT -5 @kn said:

I think they'd done a bad job, you can disagree but nah, I don't like it. This sounds like excuses to me.

AEW has been around for 3 years and from the jump they've been talking about diversity, people of color and it being a different wrestling company. I don't think we need to be waiting 3 years for people of color to finally be doing better things because if that's the case then what they said during that first year was just lip service for headlines. Cody had speeches about how much diversity means to him so for us taking this long, nah, that's not dope. Either they didn't look at the landscape well enough and plan this out or they weren't great enough in signing people of color to fulfill their plans. It's not a building issue.

I'm tired of hearing the "well they need more time" excuse when it comes to representation. How many years do we need when it takes 2 months to make somebody a hot main eventer if they wanted to? It's very very easy to make somebody hot in AEW. Even WWE had a cold bad on main roster Bianca the hottest woman on the main roster in 2 months.

The difference is NXT IS ON TV and have there own PPVs and specials and Bianca was on it before her call up and look how well they did her on Summerslam. Thats the thing that WWE has had a problem with, force feed a talent who is either not ready or over see Roman for so long as an example or Charlette who because she a flair get it handed to her. My point is none of these guys where known, and it takes time to get them known. Nobody had a clue who Will Hobbs was a year ago. When AEW started who knew who Private Party was? They didn't have NXT before hand to get exposure and big Takerover PPVs. You comparing two different situations here. How long did it take for Bobby Lashley to become WWE champion in the WWE? Did he not return years ago? And he went through hell before the push started remember that nonsense with Lana? Yea it wasn't until LAST Year he went Main Event. Will Hobbs as been build strongly. Ricky Starks strongly. Just because they are not in the last match of the night doesn't mean they are not being used greatly. They will be there soon enough. Hobbs looks like he about to face Punk. You have any idea how much stock Hobbs stock is going to raise from that? because the world knows who Punk is so eyes will watch that match and Hobbs has a great showing much like Darby, he stock is going to go up because more people are going to see how good he is. Hobbs is on his way and so is Starks who I think after Hobbs will be next to face Punk. If you facing Punk your likely in a ME match.

The point is Bianca had NXT to raise her stock and was called up close to a year ago it was not 2 months she was with street profits during the pandamic shows. So it was longer than that. The talent AEW has where guys from the indies that unless you where in the area those shows where, your not going to know who they are.

Imma be honest...this is a lot of false statements and excuses for AEW.

Bianca, for as much as you're trying to hype her up in NXT, came to the main roster as a hypegirl for Street Profits and then when that was done she had to be rebuilt. What did it was the Bayley feud, Sasha team/feud and her Rumble win. Vince wasn't looking to build her up as a main threat when he called her up, he called her up because it was literally post-WM and that's what they do and since Street Profits was already feuding they needed somebody else to offset another woman. Months later he finally got an idea and then she was built into who she became. Her NXT past didn't matter on the main roster because she was going up against Zelina Vega who's been booked as as an eternal losing heel and had that mattered she wouldn't have been facing her and would already be with real title contenders. Bianca rose up on the main roster due to dope storylines, opponents and unique situations like the obstacle course.

Basically my main point is this...

It does not take long to get somebody hot in wrestling today. At all. Prior exposure does not matter when it comes to a brand new hot wrestling company who most of the talent most people have not seen before. We don't know these people but when they show up on screen and are in the AEW environment it's very easy to make them known. Extremely easy.

The whole "hey guys it takes years before people get ready" stuff is so old school and doesn't equate to 2021. This isn't the 90s anymore and this goes double for the fact that we see viral indie wrestlers on social media so often now that you'd have to be in a bubble to think anyone in AEW haven't heard of these people. You're naming Private Party, Hobbs and Ricky Starks as if most of us knew these people's backgrounds before they stepped on our screen when the reality is no, most of us didn't but due to AEW's booking we know of them now because of where they are and given how they were booked (slow booking) it's taken longer than someone like Darby who was handpicked early. It would have been easy for them to find a black indie wrestler in AEW's opening year, throw them on screen, build them up slowly and then when it hits 9/11/2021 we can say "well hey we've got (insert name here) who-" we can use for this discussion if it comes up but that's not it. I'll get back into this later to prove my point.

I don't see how you can even try to attack Lashley here given where he is right now. Don't do the whole "hey it took Lashley this long to be champion" and "he was in bad storylines prior" stuff, that's besides the point because at the end of the day WWE saw where they were doing wrong with him and corrected it the same way they did with many other talent. That's what you do when you realize you do bad. They fixed it, they did great with Kofi, messed it up, attempted to fix it, they did great with Hit Row, they do great and they do bad but the point is that there's a clear difference in how they're managing these talent compared to the past.

It's not about where you were, it's about where you're at. Where they're at? Is a great space for black men in WWE. I can't say that for AEW especially when Lashley's been the most dominant person in WWE programming since early last year. As for me no, when I look at Hobbs, when I look at Ricky Starks, I'm not lookin at these dudes thinking we're being represented greatly and I don't care who you are, I just don't. They're doing their thing and I respect them but it's clear they haven't invested enough into racial diversity when it comes to black male talent.

You just told me just now "they will be soon enough" and like I said in previous posts, yall been saying that to us for years when it comes to AEW. I'm tired of hearing someone tell me I need to wait in order for me and my people to be represented just because you, someone who isn't us, think they're being represented well.

Lastly, a major point I want to break down is the whole "hey it takes guys a while to get ready" thing that you and some others have been trying to say for a while. No it doesn't. That's underestimating great booking, wrestlers and the hype of an organization and in this case it's AEW which is the "hottest organization" out right now due what it is.

NXT, the previous hottest organization, was able to get Leon Ruff of all people over in 1 random match.

WWE was able to get "hey Kofi will never be WWE Champion guys lolz" over in 1 random match.

WWE was able to get Seth "man I hate this guy I'll never like him again" over in 1 random match.

It's possible to get people over very quickly.

Hell, I'll do the booking for you.

AEW, December 2019, Dynamite's been around for a few months. AEW wants to do an "Elite Challenge", basically a gauntlet match with The Elite. Imagine if a new black male were part of that and they ended up getting far until finally losing to Kenny Omega at the very end. I guarantee you anything that said person would be extremely hot. You can then transition them into other feuds such as against another up and comer Darby or someone else like an MJF, just whoever. Imagine if they did that and imagine where said guy would be 2 years from then which would be now.

He damn sure would not be in some Hobbs "hey he's gonna get a Punk match guys that means people will see him now" position.

I can do it again, just have the Dark Order have a black dude in their roster who's sorta been next in line after Brodie. Say he and Hangman keep having issues over time but they're family, now when this whole stuff's happening with them imagine if dude stepped up, takes over and really turns that faction into something far more dangerous. Hangman then returns and hey, we got something wild.

Like, I'm just naming easy storylines that could have been happening that can get someone over and you're telling me that it's hard to get people ready these days. If you're talking about people of color not being "tv ready" then I'll say we've seen numerous people who have never seen tv be built on screen over the past few years, we've seen pushes/gimmicks not work, be retooled in front of our eyes until we have greatness today, we've seen adjustments.

No it isn't hard. AEW, for all of it's hype, it's resources, workers in the company, backstage officials, they can get anyone over in a series of 1-3 matches. Guaranteed. There's no way that NXT and main roster WWE, can get people over and ready to where AEW cannot as we've seen it way too many times.

You're severely underestimating wrestling and fans.

I stand by my initial statement, they could have done better and hopefully they do do better but I think they dropped the ball. Years from now we won't have this issue with New Day, Ricochet, Keith Lee and Cedric join the roster but alas, that ain't now

...here in year 3 when the best we're getting is hoping Hobbs gets a random CM Punk match outta nowhere just so people can see him.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2021 13:24:32 GMT -5 06vwgti said:

Sept 10, 2021 12:57:45 GMT -5 @kn said:

Yeah...as a black man it's the biggest reason why I'm not fully in on AEW. I wanna see more black superstars in leading spots. I said this was an issue when AEW started and years later while there's been little progress, it's little and it's pretty clear they're not progressing fast enough. Same to a similar degree with other races although I'm happy when people like the Lucha Bros get their shine as rightfully deserved. At the end of the day though, we just need a lot more minority representation.

The last part is correct, but I just don't want it at the expense at other underrepresented groups which is what my concern is when people discuss diversity,. Always feels like it comes down to discussing only in black and white terms while ignoring the others. As someone that is neither black or white, is something I noticed when discussing race matters when you don't fit either narrative people want and those at both ends go completely silent when its mentioned or move goalposts.

And with AEW, at least I feel everyone is actually treated less of an actual stereotype which in my opinion is why I continue to have any doubts of WWE handling most Asian wrestlers correctly (and I like how Ali and Nakamura have been handled). They've done better, but still.

I am also a non-white/non-black minority, and I agree 100%. "Lack of diversity" when spoken in today's society is largely code for "need more black people". That's not necessarily the sentiment in this thread, but it's everywhere. The criticism AEW is getting on this thread is basically what happens with MLB when people talk about their diversity. MLB has more Hispanic and Asian players than the NBA, NFL, and NHL combined, but that's never appreciated or used to uplift the sport in the public's eye. It's "lack of diversity" because their player pool is 7% black, down from 15-20% around 25 years ago. AEW has black talent, but has a lot more Latin and Asian talent. Unfortunately, much like baseball, it doesn't fit the agenda. For the record, I'm not saying they shouldn't try to push more black talent. They should. I think MLB, a sport/league that I love, should do more in the inner cities to get more black involvement as well. My point is simply that diversity is more than one race. 

Yes, a lot of the "main eventers" are white. That only matters if the company has an internal bias and is intentionally putting white people at the top of the card and keeping the other races down. I don't think anyone has said that here, but if that's not the case, then what solution are some of you asking for? 

AEW is taking the time to develop talent. The roster is so big that much like the 80's WWF or 2000 WWF, the term "main event" is going to be very subjective. Not everyone is going to be at the top of the card, but that doesn't mean you won't have feuds like Andrade/Pac or Sammy/Spears or Black/Cody, etc, get a lot of build and TV time. Punk/Hobbs will get good build. As long as there are minorities all around the card, and for the most part there is, then I'm not sure what the issue is. Shoving a black talent down everyone's throats Jinder Mahal style isn't going to do any good unless the fans accept it and the talent is worthy of the spot. I think that will happen eventually, but it has to be organic. The cream will rise to the top; forcing it is going to do more harm than good. 

[lucas_lee]

Sept 11, 2021 13:08:46 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Sept 11, 2021 12:19:51 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

I'm betting we're gonna have the same conversation next year and we'll have the same folks saying to be patient and wait. At some point we need to put AEW to task for putting their money where their mouth is.

Or we can look at the context of where things are and not do that.

Because we really don't have to do what you're saying.

Mate we ve been having this convo for two years. Nothing against you or anyone else but I dont think you understand our points or where we're coming from. Plus I dont appreciate the snarky tone from a mod as well, thats not cool. I mentioned this last year how we re gonna have the same convo and we re doing the same circle and song and dance.

[lucas_lee]

Sept 11, 2021 14:34:30 GMT -5 @finespeech said:

Sept 10, 2021 13:24:32 GMT -5 06vwgti said:

The last part is correct, but I just don't want it at the expense at other underrepresented groups which is what my concern is when people discuss diversity,. Always feels like it comes down to discussing only in black and white terms while ignoring the others. As someone that is neither black or white, is something I noticed when discussing race matters when you don't fit either narrative people want and those at both ends go completely silent when its mentioned or move goalposts.

And with AEW, at least I feel everyone is actually treated less of an actual stereotype which in my opinion is why I continue to have any doubts of WWE handling most Asian wrestlers correctly (and I like how Ali and Nakamura have been handled). They've done better, but still.

I am also a non-white/non-black minority, and I agree 100%. "Lack of diversity" when spoken in today's society is largely code for "need more black people". That's not necessarily the sentiment in this thread, but it's everywhere. The criticism AEW is getting on this thread is basically what happens with MLB when people talk about their diversity. MLB has more Hispanic and Asian players than the NBA, NFL, and NHL combined, but that's never appreciated or used to uplift the sport in the public's eye. It's "lack of diversity" because their player pool is 7% black, down from 15-20% around 25 years ago. AEW has black talent, but has a lot more Latin and Asian talent. Unfortunately, much like baseball, it doesn't fit the agenda. For the record, I'm not saying they shouldn't try to push more black talent. They should. I think MLB, a sport/league that I love, should do more in the inner cities to get more black involvement as well. My point is simply that diversity is more than one race. 

Yes, a lot of the "main eventers" are white. That only matters if the company has an internal bias and is intentionally putting white people at the top of the card and keeping the other races down. I don't think anyone has said that here, but if that's not the case, then what solution are some of you asking for? 

AEW is taking the time to develop talent. The roster is so big that much like the 80's WWF or 2000 WWF, the term "main event" is going to be very subjective. Not everyone is going to be at the top of the card, but that doesn't mean you won't have feuds like Andrade/Pac or Sammy/Spears or Black/Cody, etc, get a lot of build and TV time. Punk/Hobbs will get good build. As long as there are minorities all around the card, and for the most part there is, then I'm not sure what the issue is. Shoving a black talent down everyone's throats Jinder Mahal style isn't going to do any good unless the fans accept it and the talent is worthy of the spot. I think that will happen eventually, but it has to be organic. The cream will rise to the top; forcing it is going to do more harm than good. 

I'm Asian man and thats not what these posters have been saying. Nowhere did they say to push black wrestlers to the top. The posters are saying they could've done a better job building them up instead of jobbing them out on dark. Notice how no one mentions the tag and women's division because of how diverse the rosters are.

[Deleted]

Sept 11, 2021 14:39:36 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

Sept 11, 2021 14:34:30 GMT -5 @finespeech said:

I am also a non-white/non-black minority, and I agree 100%. "Lack of diversity" when spoken in today's society is largely code for "need more black people". That's not necessarily the sentiment in this thread, but it's everywhere. The criticism AEW is getting on this thread is basically what happens with MLB when people talk about their diversity. MLB has more Hispanic and Asian players than the NBA, NFL, and NHL combined, but that's never appreciated or used to uplift the sport in the public's eye. It's "lack of diversity" because their player pool is 7% black, down from 15-20% around 25 years ago. AEW has black talent, but has a lot more Latin and Asian talent. Unfortunately, much like baseball, it doesn't fit the agenda. For the record, I'm not saying they shouldn't try to push more black talent. They should. I think MLB, a sport/league that I love, should do more in the inner cities to get more black involvement as well. My point is simply that diversity is more than one race. 

Yes, a lot of the "main eventers" are white. That only matters if the company has an internal bias and is intentionally putting white people at the top of the card and keeping the other races down. I don't think anyone has said that here, but if that's not the case, then what solution are some of you asking for? 

AEW is taking the time to develop talent. The roster is so big that much like the 80's WWF or 2000 WWF, the term "main event" is going to be very subjective. Not everyone is going to be at the top of the card, but that doesn't mean you won't have feuds like Andrade/Pac or Sammy/Spears or Black/Cody, etc, get a lot of build and TV time. Punk/Hobbs will get good build. As long as there are minorities all around the card, and for the most part there is, then I'm not sure what the issue is. Shoving a black talent down everyone's throats Jinder Mahal style isn't going to do any good unless the fans accept it and the talent is worthy of the spot. I think that will happen eventually, but it has to be organic. The cream will rise to the top; forcing it is going to do more harm than good. 

I'm Asian man and thats not what these posters have been saying. Nowhere did they say to push black wrestlers to the top. The posters are saying they could've done a better job building them up instead of jobbing them out on dark. Notice how no one mentions the tag and women's division because of how diverse the rosters are.

I admittedly don't watch Dark, so not sure which talents you are referring to, but it goes back to my earlier point. If the company has an internal bias, then that's a problem. If they don't, and it doesn't appear that they do, then as long as minorities are getting an opportunity that's really all that matters. This is a startup company. The WWE can push Jinder f'n Mahal as a world champion without any fear of ramifications because the brand is teflon. AEW is starting up, just had a pandemic with no fans to judge reactions, and is kind of playing by ear since so much established talent (that happened to be white) is becoming available at warp speed. 

It's something they will have to work around for sure, but the fact that there are a lot of minority women, and in the tag ranks, and in the lower cards, etc, is a good sign. You have time to build them up. 

[lucas_lee]

Sept 11, 2021 14:48:33 GMT -5 @finespeech said:

Sept 11, 2021 14:39:36 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

I'm Asian man and thats not what these posters have been saying. Nowhere did they say to push black wrestlers to the top. The posters are saying they could've done a better job building them up instead of jobbing them out on dark. Notice how no one mentions the tag and women's division because of how diverse the rosters are.

I admittedly don't watch Dark, so not sure which talents you are referring to, but it goes back to my earlier point. If the company has an internal bias, then that's a problem. If they don't, and it doesn't appear that they do, then as long as minorities are getting an opportunity that's really all that matters. This is a startup company. The WWE can push Jinder f'n Mahal as a world champion without any fear of ramifications because the brand is teflon. AEW is starting up, just had a pandemic with no fans to judge reactions, and is kind of playing by ear since so much established talent (that happened to be white) is becoming available at warp speed. 

It's something they will have to work around for sure, but the fact that there are a lot of minority women, and in the tag ranks, and in the lower cards, etc, is a good sign. You have time to build them up.

But they built up those talents from the get-go in those divisions. What folks are saying is they shouldve spent time building up the black male roster from the start. They did that with Scorpio Sky and I cant think of anyone else.

[carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army)]

Sept 11, 2021 14:34:30 GMT -5 @finespeech said:

Sept 10, 2021 13:24:32 GMT -5 06vwgti said:

The last part is correct, but I just don't want it at the expense at other underrepresented groups which is what my concern is when people discuss diversity,. Always feels like it comes down to discussing only in black and white terms while ignoring the others. As someone that is neither black or white, is something I noticed when discussing race matters when you don't fit either narrative people want and those at both ends go completely silent when its mentioned or move goalposts.

And with AEW, at least I feel everyone is actually treated less of an actual stereotype which in my opinion is why I continue to have any doubts of WWE handling most Asian wrestlers correctly (and I like how Ali and Nakamura have been handled). They've done better, but still.

I am also a non-white/non-black minority, and I agree 100%. "Lack of diversity" when spoken in today's society is largely code for "need more black people".

No, it's code for "need more PoC and yeah specifically some of those PoC should be black." It's both.

Because yeah, it's the US, and in the US, black people are a uniquely marginalized group. But this doesn't mean it would be acceptable if only black or white people could get real opportunities in a more diverse roster, and no one should care about, say, Asian wrestlers.

[The Captain]

Sept 10, 2021 15:03:33 GMT -5 Fade said:

Sept 10, 2021 14:01:20 GMT -5 Killah Ray said:

I have no clue when Chris Bey's contract ends with Impact, but when it does he should have both the E and AEW banging down his door....

On an interesting segue it will be interesting to see Bey’s trajectory. Stay in iMPACT, do a full NJPW thing, WWE, AEW..one of the guys with the most potential in the wrestling landscape right now.

Bey being the first new member of Bullet Club from outside NJPW in awhile (as well as the first Black member of the stable) definitely raised his profile. He's going to be a hot free agent whenever his contract with Impact is up, whether that's getting big money to stay in Impact, going to NJPW full-time, or attracting attention from WWE and AEW.

[Dub H]

Sept 11, 2021 14:50:01 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

Sept 11, 2021 14:48:33 GMT -5 @finespeech said:

I admittedly don't watch Dark, so not sure which talents you are referring to, but it goes back to my earlier point. If the company has an internal bias, then that's a problem. If they don't, and it doesn't appear that they do, then as long as minorities are getting an opportunity that's really all that matters. This is a startup company. The WWE can push Jinder f'n Mahal as a world champion without any fear of ramifications because the brand is teflon. AEW is starting up, just had a pandemic with no fans to judge reactions, and is kind of playing by ear since so much established talent (that happened to be white) is becoming available at warp speed. 

It's something they will have to work around for sure, but the fact that there are a lot of minority women, and in the tag ranks, and in the lower cards, etc, is a good sign. You have time to build them up.

But they built up those talents from the get-go in those divisions. What folks are saying is they shouldve spent time building up the black male roster from the start. They did that with Scorpio Sky and I cant think of anyone else.

But we can see right now,they are building at very least Max Caster as a player in AEW.They are building Ogogo(even if he took time off because of injury),they are building Dante Martin and Starks.

They spent the time at the start building who they believed were the best they had available, same thing now.

[Deleted]

Sept 11, 2021 14:50:01 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

Sept 11, 2021 14:48:33 GMT -5 @finespeech said:

I admittedly don't watch Dark, so not sure which talents you are referring to, but it goes back to my earlier point. If the company has an internal bias, then that's a problem. If they don't, and it doesn't appear that they do, then as long as minorities are getting an opportunity that's really all that matters. This is a startup company. The WWE can push Jinder f'n Mahal as a world champion without any fear of ramifications because the brand is teflon. AEW is starting up, just had a pandemic with no fans to judge reactions, and is kind of playing by ear since so much established talent (that happened to be white) is becoming available at warp speed. 

It's something they will have to work around for sure, but the fact that there are a lot of minority women, and in the tag ranks, and in the lower cards, etc, is a good sign. You have time to build them up.

But they built up those talents from the get-go in those divisions. What folks are saying is they shouldve spent time building up the black male roster from the start. They did that with Scorpio Sky and I cant think of anyone else.

When did Big E debut on WWE TV? 2013? Earlier than that? It's taken him 8+ years to reach a level where he could be in a main event. He was used very well in the tag ranks, got featured, and eventually got his break. Lashley had to kill it in TNA for years before coming back and being pushed like he deserves to be pushed. It's not something you can force (see Jinder, see ADR, etc) or do instantly. I can't speak on what the black part of the roster looked like in 2019-20 because I don't remember the roster from 2019, and 2020 was largely a blur due to the pandemic, but really all AEW can do is put talent that is worthy of being on TV, on TV. Give them something that focuses on their strengths. They'll get over, or they won't, and as long as AEW doesn't have a bias against minorities at the top of the card, then it seems like an issue that will largely fix itself.