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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Nov 14, 2021 1:27:57 GMT -5
That's not a bad thing. Danhausen's being smart, there's a bidding war for him, so the longer he holds out, the more companies will be desperate for him. So you’re saying he broke his leg as a negotiation tactic? I don’t pretend to understand the art of the deal. His logic is much more advanced than our mortal logic. Or I spaced out about the leg break.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 14, 2021 1:45:34 GMT -5
Yeah that's another thing to take into account here... the accusations are Lethal being a dick and accusedly holding down a woman talent whether he was serious or not in the implications At most that we are aware... he's a dick. He's just not on the level of Marty/Starr/Ryan. That might've helped somewhat... but it doesn't mean the blowback still might not come because if you're a dick it still makes people yknow... not like you. It’s not just being a dick, it’s sexual harassment It's not great. I'm not saying it is. Issue is how much of it sticks and how much of it actually would be a problem at this point. At this point it's accusations and it's a bad look... unless either AEW becomes aware or it's enough to fire him I don't see it being something that does anything unless more stuff comes to light.
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Post by Edge of Insanity on Nov 14, 2021 1:51:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I read that thread earlier like what the f*** is this and why does he keep getting away with this He's made a habit of putting his foot in his mouth and his low key arrogance is starting to show more and more In general Tony Khan does come off to me as someone who's mostly pretty good at coming off as affable but is a gigantic asshole when you get to know him. Between moments like this and his constant flexing on Twitter. I don't understand how more people don't see that. So many people worship him as saint Tony, the savior of wrestling. Give him time, he will yet another shady promoter. They all are.
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Post by Edge of Insanity on Nov 14, 2021 1:58:04 GMT -5
I was expecting him to be in the same camp as the Briscoes as being too problematic to ever get a shot with a mainstream company after the allegations against him. Didn't stop them from bringing in Darby Allin. They no different than any wrestling company, they gonna bring in whoever they want and ignore the blowback unless it's major.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 14, 2021 2:04:48 GMT -5
In general Tony Khan does come off to me as someone who's mostly pretty good at coming off as affable but is a gigantic asshole when you get to know him. Between moments like this and his constant flexing on Twitter. I don't understand how more people don't see that. So many people worship him as saint Tony, the savior of wrestling. Give him time, he will yet another shady promoter. They all are. Tony isn't perfect but god if I've ever heard anyone call the man a saint. Just that he has a clear love for wrestling and gets the business.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 14, 2021 2:07:07 GMT -5
In general Tony Khan does come off to me as someone who's mostly pretty good at coming off as affable but is a gigantic asshole when you get to know him. Between moments like this and his constant flexing on Twitter. I don't understand how more people don't see that. So many people worship him as saint Tony, the savior of wrestling. Give him time, he will yet another shady promoter. They all are. I don't really think AEW was ever quite the "Absolute Progressive Alternative" that people expected. They're a step forward from Vince McMahon, but Tony has shown he'll bring in controversial talent (Jericho, Hager), and even let them stick around if they f*** up (Max Caster, Darby Allin, Sammy Guevara), but if they become too big an issue to work with (Jimmy Havoc, Ivellise, Curt Stallion), he'll show them the door.
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Blade
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Post by Blade on Nov 14, 2021 2:09:43 GMT -5
I don't understand how more people don't see that. So many people worship him as saint Tony, the savior of wrestling. Give him time, he will yet another shady promoter. They all are. Well, he's a billionaire, so "not absolutely scum" is already a pretty high bar to clear. Power corrupts, etc. It is what it is, though. AEW doesn't exist without that kind of financial backing.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 14, 2021 2:10:55 GMT -5
I don't understand how more people don't see that. So many people worship him as saint Tony, the savior of wrestling. Give him time, he will yet another shady promoter. They all are. I don't really think AEW was ever quite the "Absolute Progressive Alternative" that people expected. They're a step forward from Vince McMahon, but Tony has shown he'll bring in controversial talent (Jericho, Hager), and even let them stick around if they f*** up (Max Caster, Darby Allin, Sammy Guevara), but if they become too big an issue to work with (Jimmy Havoc, Ivellise, Curt Stallion), he'll show them the door. A lot of Jericho's controversies really started coming after AEW had signed him. At least as far as I ever saw people talk about the guy. The pandemic era really didn't help him be put in the best light. Caster had a shitty wrap and has been fine since... not something I'd fire a guy over if he can shape up and move on. Guevara went through sensitivity training and seemed genuinely upset with himself and his own comments and I haven't heard one bad word about him before or since The others definitely have more weight to them yes. Lethal's might be more extenuating than all of them. But it really all depends how much there is to the accusations at this point... but theyre gonna follow him around no matter what at this point.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Nov 14, 2021 2:19:04 GMT -5
This whole issue is incredibly complex and I hope everyone here recognizes that. First and foremost, AEW is a business. And as much as we think wrestling is shady, so are most businesses. Just look at who sticks around in pro sports. If people can hire someone of value and they think they're worth the backlash, they'll hire them. You're not going to see an alternative company that doesn't engage in that behavior because it's impossible. You will always hire someone who's going to piss someone off. Whether it be because they were convicted of a crime or they hold political viewpoints you disagree with or there are serious allegations against them. And I'm not even sure what we should be doing as fans. WWE is a whole pandora's box of allegations from management on down and as much as I get annoyed with the current product, I grew up on it and I love their archives. I love New Japan and they've brought in talent that I've found ethically questionable. It's hard to know where to draw the line. I want to be a good person but as I said, these things are complex. Here are the questions at play:
- Should companies hire people with any allegations against them? - If so, what sorts of allegations are permissible? - If there are serious allegations, what level of evidence is significant enough to avoid hiring a talent? - If someone has done something wrong, when is it permissible to give them the space to improve and be a better person before they lose their job or opportunity?
And if you look beyond this specific case, there are even more questions. Should you bring in talents with convictions like Tyson? Should you bring in talent that have questionable viewpoints politically or ethnically? There's a lot going on here and I don't think we can get to answer really here.
I don't think Tony is a saint. Most people aren't. I think he's a businessman who likes to make money and wants to put on successful wrestling shows. I think he has shown a side of himself where he wants to do the right thing as evident by some of his work with the Brodie Lee family. He also is a guy with imperfections (as we all have) and that comes out time to time. But I also don't think he'd hire someone he believed to be an abuser. Even if he was a bad person, he wouldn't risk that for his company. Now he might not know everything or have done his due diligence, but my takeaway isn't that he's pro sexual predator.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 14, 2021 2:20:13 GMT -5
I don't really think AEW was ever quite the "Absolute Progressive Alternative" that people expected. They're a step forward from Vince McMahon, but Tony has shown he'll bring in controversial talent (Jericho, Hager), and even let them stick around if they f*** up (Max Caster, Darby Allin, Sammy Guevara), but if they become too big an issue to work with (Jimmy Havoc, Ivellise, Curt Stallion), he'll show them the door. A lot of Jericho's controversies really started coming after AEW had signed him. At least as far as I ever saw people talk about the guy. The pandemic era really didn't help him be put in the best light. Caster had a shitty wrap and has been fine since... not something I'd fire a guy over if he can shape up and move on. Guevara went through sensitivity training and seemed genuinely upset with himself and his own comments and I haven't heard one bad word about him before or since The others definitely have more weight to them yes. Lethal's might be more extenuating than all of them. But it really all depends how much there is to the accusations at this point... but theyre gonna follow him around no matter what at this point. I'm fine with Tony giving people chances. Of course, with his TV deal, he can't take the same sorts of risks that Court Bauer does, but I'm honestly OK with him giving people a shot to see if they can keep their nose clean after they've ruffled feathers and rocked boats. But yeah, they should be on a short leash. As far as Lethal goes, I have to assume that they did their due diligence, and just can't find anything definitive to nail to him.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Nov 14, 2021 2:21:41 GMT -5
I do have to say even without the accusations I'd be anti-signing Jay Lethal because the dude hasn't been even slightly interesting in like seven years.
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Post by Rave on Nov 14, 2021 2:30:35 GMT -5
Well it didn't take long for this to happen...
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Nov 14, 2021 2:38:49 GMT -5
In general Tony Khan does come off to me as someone who's mostly pretty good at coming off as affable but is a gigantic asshole when you get to know him. Between moments like this and his constant flexing on Twitter. I don't understand how more people don't see that. So many people worship him as saint Tony, the savior of wrestling. Give him time, he will yet another shady promoter. They all are. He's of the same generation as most wrestling fans on the internet and basically comes off as the same sort of dorky wrestling nerd, hence people relate to him. I'm not sure calling him a shady promoter will ever be accurate, since he isn't a carny hustler who'll ever have to make a living off this, he's a hereditary billionaire playing with pricy toys. I don't expect him to stiff performers on money. I do expect him to continue to demonstrate the same flaws you'd expect from socially-awkward millenial men who grew up spending way too much time on the internet, and/or rich kids growing up in a bubble. Which, ironically, means he's just as backward on respectfully dealing with anyone who isn't a white man as any of the shady carny hustlers of the business, just in a slightly different way. But at least he's not stiffing anyone on money.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 14, 2021 2:43:38 GMT -5
I do have to say even without the accusations I'd be anti-signing Jay Lethal because the dude hasn't been even slightly interesting in like seven years. That's also part of it. If it was Jay just coming in for a TNT title match or something, whatever, I don't like it, but I'd get it. I cannot think of anything interesting to do with Jay Lethal at this juncture. Maybe if Gresham was with him, tagging, but singles? I am just absolutely bored of him. The only hire they could have made I'd be less interested in is the Briscoes, and the matches there would be better.
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Mecca
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Post by Mecca on Nov 14, 2021 2:44:42 GMT -5
It'll always come back to the same thing it does in sports or really life, whats your value in relation to your accusations. And also how believable are those accusations etc.
Also me personally I like to think people are capable of change and because they f***ed up 5 years ago doesn't mean they aren't worthy of a gig ever again.
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r.
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Post by r. on Nov 14, 2021 2:53:07 GMT -5
This whole issue is incredibly complex and I hope everyone here recognizes that. First and foremost, AEW is a business. And as much as we think wrestling is shady, so are most businesses. Just look at who sticks around in pro sports. If people can hire someone of value and they think they're worth the backlash, they'll hire them. You're not going to see an alternative company that doesn't engage in that behavior because it's impossible. You will always hire someone who's going to piss someone off. Whether it be because they were convicted of a crime or they hold political viewpoints you disagree with or there are serious allegations against them. And I'm not even sure what we should be doing as fans. WWE is a whole pandora's box of allegations from management on down and as much as I get annoyed with the current product, I grew up on it and I love their archives. I love New Japan and they've brought in talent that I've found ethically questionable. It's hard to know where to draw the line. I want to be a good person but as I said, these things are complex. Here are the questions at play: - Should companies hire people with any allegations against them? - If so, what sorts of allegations are permissible? - If there are serious allegations, what level of evidence is significant enough to avoid hiring a talent? - If someone has done something wrong, when is it permissible to give them the space to improve and be a better person before they lose their job or opportunity? And if you look beyond this specific case, there are even more questions. Should you bring in talents with convictions like Tyson? Should you bring in talent that have questionable viewpoints politically or ethnically? There's a lot going on here and I don't think we can get to answer really here. I don't think Tony is a saint. Most people aren't. I think he's a businessman who likes to make money and wants to put on successful wrestling shows. I think he has shown a side of himself where he wants to do the right thing as evident by some of his work with the Brodie Lee family. He also is a guy with imperfections (as we all have) and that comes out time to time. But I also don't think he'd hire someone he believed to be an abuser. Even if he was a bad person, he wouldn't risk that for his company. Now he might not know everything or have done his due diligence, but my takeaway isn't that he's pro sexual predator. To answer your questions in order; Low risk things are fine: Like X enjoys spoking pot but that's all but harmless or like in Darbys case where it was a mutual thing. Multiple people with reciepts, This does not mean I invalidate someone coming forward only I may have more doubts of say X person comes out of the wood works to accuse person Y after 20 years but there is no one else claiming anything of the sort. Yes, People can and should be given an opportunity to change. But, If they have atrack record of not changing elsewhere it's not unfair to assume that trend will continue. It's a tough spot. We in the IWC know this stuff but it seldom reaches the mainstream, Hence why Jay got a big pop. At the minimum Lethal should be on a proverbial short leash if their going to stick with him.
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Post by Edge of Insanity on Nov 14, 2021 3:05:52 GMT -5
This whole issue is incredibly complex and I hope everyone here recognizes that. First and foremost, AEW is a business. And as much as we think wrestling is shady, so are most businesses. Just look at who sticks around in pro sports. If people can hire someone of value and they think they're worth the backlash, they'll hire them. You're not going to see an alternative company that doesn't engage in that behavior because it's impossible. You will always hire someone who's going to piss someone off. Whether it be because they were convicted of a crime or they hold political viewpoints you disagree with or there are serious allegations against them. And I'm not even sure what we should be doing as fans. WWE is a whole pandora's box of allegations from management on down and as much as I get annoyed with the current product, I grew up on it and I love their archives. I love New Japan and they've brought in talent that I've found ethically questionable. It's hard to know where to draw the line. I want to be a good person but as I said, these things are complex. Here are the questions at play: - Should companies hire people with any allegations against them? - If so, what sorts of allegations are permissible? - If there are serious allegations, what level of evidence is significant enough to avoid hiring a talent? - If someone has done something wrong, when is it permissible to give them the space to improve and be a better person before they lose their job or opportunity? And if you look beyond this specific case, there are even more questions. Should you bring in talents with convictions like Tyson? Should you bring in talent that have questionable viewpoints politically or ethnically? There's a lot going on here and I don't think we can get to answer really here. I don't think Tony is a saint. Most people aren't. I think he's a businessman who likes to make money and wants to put on successful wrestling shows. I think he has shown a side of himself where he wants to do the right thing as evident by some of his work with the Brodie Lee family. He also is a guy with imperfections (as we all have) and that comes out time to time. But I also don't think he'd hire someone he believed to be an abuser. Even if he was a bad person, he wouldn't risk that for his company. Now he might not know everything or have done his due diligence, but my takeaway isn't that he's pro sexual predator. To answer your questions in order; Low risk things are fine: Like X enjoys spoking pot but that's all but harmless or like in Darbys case where it was a mutual thing. Multiple people with reciepts, This does not mean I invalidate someone coming forward only I may have more doubts of say X person comes out of the wood works to accuse person Y after 20 years but there is no one else claiming anything of the sort. Yes, People can and should be given an opportunity to change. But, If they have atrack record of not changing elsewhere it's not unfair to assume that trend will continue. It's a tough spot. We in the IWC know this stuff but it seldom reaches the mainstream, Hence why Jay got a big pop. At the minimum Lethal should be on a proverbial short leash if their going to stick with him. Darby's case wasnt mutual anything. He was accused of rape and abuse by an ex.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Nov 14, 2021 3:14:23 GMT -5
It seems like ROH aren’t exactly going to force people to stay for the duration if they want to leave if they only had a month left on their contract anyway which, even with the rest of this tar pit, is sort of interesting to find out. At least this can put to bed "WHY DIDN'T THEY GO AFTER GRESHAM??" because Gresham doesn't seem 100 percent free yet Pretty possible AEW wanted Lethal AND Gresham among others. Lethal happened to be available right now. I assume they want Gresham but a holdup could be that his wife works for Impact so he may prefer there...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 3:17:42 GMT -5
This has probably already been posted, but put him with Andrade and have him do his Ric Flair impression.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Nov 14, 2021 3:28:10 GMT -5
This has probably already been posted, but put him with Andrade and have him do his Ric Flair impression. Man I don't think him flashing his dick is a good idea...
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