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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Nov 30, 2021 4:12:16 GMT -5
Vince thought the run was such a disaster that he offered Warrior a big fact contract at the end of 97
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 4:17:56 GMT -5
Vince f***ing up someone's return? Well I never.
I associate this run with Batista's 2013 return. They were so tone deaf that they actually had him return as a face. Despite him being the best heel in the company before his departure prior.
Never underestimate this company and their decision making. Whatever makes the most sense, trust me. They'll do the opposite.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 4:19:14 GMT -5
Vince thought the run was such a disaster that he offered Warrior a big fact contract at the end of 97 I say this a lot but I would've loved to see The Ultimate Warrior in the Attitude Era. I think he would've been more realistic and less cartoony at this point. I picture him renamed "The Warrior" and wrestling in black jeans. I think he would've been a good fit for the Corporation.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 30, 2021 6:25:07 GMT -5
Vince thought the run was such a disaster that he offered Warrior a big fact contract at the end of 97 I say this a lot but I would've loved to see The Ultimate Warrior in the Attitude Era. I think he would've been more realistic and less cartoony at this point. I picture him renamed "The Warrior" and wrestling in black jeans. I think he would've been a good fit for the Corporation. I could definitely see him being in the Corporation. They would have to give him a big repackaging though. Like I can see him in the jeans but he would definitely have to lose the paint. They were able to reinvent Bossman where he fit in so I don't see why they couldn't do it with Warrior. Only problem I could see is I can't see Warrior taking a backseat to the Rock. Rock had to be the crown jewel and I can't see Warrior being in a background henchman role.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Nov 30, 2021 7:54:04 GMT -5
Vince f***ing up someone's return? Well I never. I associate this run with Batista's 2013 return. They were so tone deaf that they actually had him return as a face. Despite him being the best heel in the company before his departure prior. Never underestimate this company and their decision making. Whatever makes the most sense, trust me. They'll do the opposite. If his return had been after GotG came out he could have been a huge face. Of course then he might not have been willing to make a return.
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Nov 30, 2021 9:32:43 GMT -5
Does anyone know if there was even a thought in their mind of bringing back after he no-showed those dates?
It seemed really weird that they were basically burying him on TV for no-showing with the whole "Even big stars like the Warrior are accountable to the WWF fans" and "If he'll just sign this agreement to show up for work, we'll consider letting him wrestle again" if there was any hope that the relationship could be fixed. It seemed more like what they might do if they were worried he was going to show up on Nitro.
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Post by jason1980s on Nov 30, 2021 9:43:42 GMT -5
Does anyone know if there was even a thought in their mind of bringing back after he no-showed those dates? It was funny to me that Jakks was still putting out a repainted figure of him late into 1996. It was a "Survivor Series" boxed set which came out in November or December 96. Now that I think of it, I think his series 2 figure even came out around then too. I know it takes a little while to make a figure and they can't just pull it from the shelves without replacing it and with Jakks being so new to WWF toys, they didn't have many replacement options. I also see Warrior as a guy who Vince would have loved to have around if Warrior could work well with WWF. Their relationship is like a couple where the one is so problematic and they keep breaking up but one just wants to go back time and time again.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 10:48:53 GMT -5
I liked warrior and was happy to see him back, but his two feuds when he came back was goldust, i.c. champion, but he was hurt and couldn't have a match, so the whole match was stalling to kill time, and the heel commentator for the last three years who was not seen as a threat on wwf television. His last appearance (teaming with ahmed and shawn vs cornette) was the only time he approached the main event/a serious match. They brought him back big at wrestlemania, and then put him in two feuds where no one believed he was in trouble or would lose and that cooled him off right away. It was picking back up (vs owen) right when he left. His character had changed too. He became human in 1996 compared to what he was before. Had tattoos, a university and comic book, he wasn't talking about the gods and making a sacrifice, he was more just a mad guy yelling, and went from other-worldly being to a guy that lived in the real world. There were a lot of reasons that Ultimate Warrior didn't work in 1996, but this is the biggest reason to me. Even as an 8-year-old, when he came out wearing a baseball cap, I was like "this is just a weird guy with facepaint." He didn't have any of the mystique of his original run at all.
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Squirrel Master
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Post by Squirrel Master on Nov 30, 2021 12:02:57 GMT -5
See, I would have changed his Warrior character; a metamorphosis into a Dick the Bruiser or Crusher type cigar-chomping bar brawler. Something like the Hardliners Murdoch and Slater, keeping the face paint for no reason at all.
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Post by Rumble McSkirmish on Nov 30, 2021 12:17:47 GMT -5
Warrior coming back in 1996 was pretty much a "Quid Pro Quid" deal, Vince got one of his veterans back before WCW could sign him and Warrior had an outlet to promote his wrestling school (Warrior U) and comic book.
As for how Warrior was used he was pretty much slotted into the special attraction spot right from the get go (IE not the top guy, but a big name they can trot out from time to time to sell more tickets and PPV buys.) something that Vince tried to do with Hogan a few years prior to this, and we all know how that worked out.
So yeah Vince was doing that sort of thing even a few decades ago.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Nov 30, 2021 18:36:17 GMT -5
His RAW matches against Owen Hart, Goldust and Glen Jacobs were decent and better than his PPV bouts.
There was scope to get him working 10-15 min matches every other month against a ring general and coming off like a proto-Goldberg.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Nov 30, 2021 18:42:05 GMT -5
One of the few times HBK would have found out Vince siding with his wet dream instead of Shawn and acting all Summerslam 05. I dunno, this was peak HBK being in Vince's ear and Warrior was probably still on thin ice for the Summerslam '91 stunt. I think Shawn was always cool with Warrior especially since Warrior looked out for the Rockers back in the day e.g. he let them stay for free in his New York apartment whenever they were in town and he wasn't. Even if he got prickly, I don't think Shawn would have much luck. Vince loves the Almighty Dollar above anything else, and Warrior, despite his differences, was always the bigger draw and merch mover than Shawn.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Nov 30, 2021 18:55:46 GMT -5
If Hogan could have worked in 96 so could have Warrior. I just don't think WWE had put any effort to do anything with him nor they cared to do anything with him, it was more of a short term boost instead. They did tried the best they could with Jake in his worst iteration and that alone tells you they didn't' want anything to do with Warrior. Hogan was always a vastly better worker then Warrior. For one thing he realized that selling during the heat would lead to a bigger pop on the comeback. Warrior never got that. In addition Hogan turned heel, albeit reluctantly,when things weren't working. Warrior wanted to use WWF to sell his comics. He was never gonna change from that gimmick.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Nov 30, 2021 19:10:12 GMT -5
I dunno, this was peak HBK being in Vince's ear and Warrior was probably still on thin ice for the Summerslam '91 stunt. I think Shawn was always cool with Warrior especially since Warrior looked out for the Rockers back in the day e.g. he let them stay for free in his New York apartment whenever they were in town and he wasn't. Even if he got prickly, I don't think Shawn would have much luck. Vince loves the Almighty Dollar above anything else, and Warrior, despite his differences, was always the bigger draw and merch mover than Shawn. A lot of guys sacrificed themselves to make Shawn look better. Vader and Nash both immediately spring to mind. Look what happened when Hogan didn’t. Warrior wouldn’t have for Shawn either, so as long as Shawn was cool with bumping for Warrior, it would have been a fine match.
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fortknox
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Post by fortknox on Nov 30, 2021 19:37:48 GMT -5
Vince thought the run was such a disaster that he offered Warrior a big fact contract at the end of 97 Which is something they "forget" to talk about on The Self Destruction DVD.
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y4j1981
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Post by y4j1981 on Nov 30, 2021 19:46:53 GMT -5
I liked warrior and was happy to see him back, but his two feuds when he came back was goldust, i.c. champion, but he was hurt and couldn't have a match, so the whole match was stalling to kill time, and the heel commentator for the last three years who was not seen as a threat on wwf television. His last appearance (teaming with ahmed and shawn vs cornette) was the only time he approached the main event/a serious match. They brought him back big at wrestlemania, and then put him in two feuds where no one believed he was in trouble or would lose and that cooled him off right away. It was picking back up (vs owen) right when he left. His character had changed too. He became human in 1996 compared to what he was before. Had tattoos, a university and comic book, he wasn't talking about the gods and making a sacrifice, he was more just a mad guy yelling, and went from other-worldly being to a guy that lived in the real world. There were a lot of reasons that Ultimate Warrior didn't work in 1996, but this is the biggest reason to me. Even as an 8-year-old, when he came out wearing a baseball cap, I was like "this is just a weird guy with facepaint." He didn't have any of the mystique of his original run at all. Brian Zane, Wrestling with Wregret, did a video bout Warrior's 1996's return. Very enjoyable. He says he heard Warrior didn't "trust" Lawler with the frame smashing so he wanted the extra head protection. Good video to check out if you got 15 minutes youtu.be/SK2z9zBUWv0And while we're at it, why not a different video on his WCW run youtu.be/FceGU6vPrQY
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Post by sungod2020 on Nov 30, 2021 21:08:05 GMT -5
One of the problems with Ultimate Warrior's 1996 that wasn't mentioned was that the company was trying to hype up it's "New Generation" with guys like Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels as the frontrunners. So it was hypocritical on WWF's part to bring back past stars such as Warrior himself along with Roddy Piper and Jake Roberts, especially when they were mocking WCW for using talent from yesteryear.
That said, Warrior's 1996 run wasn't completely irredeemable. Had he stayed well into the year and into 1997, he could've transitioned into a darker character like Sting's crow character in WCW. He can even cut darker and more coherent promos. Basically flesh out the character, but not too far from how fans recognized what made him stand out. I can see him feud with guys such as Vader and Mankind (maybe Brian Pillman as well) while portraying that character.
After that, I'm drawing a blank. The 1996/1997 timeframe was a transitional period that allowed guys such as "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Undertaker, The Rock, Triple H and others to grow. I don't know where Ultimate Warrior would fit in the equation. Maybe a heel turn to revamp his character, but you already have Kane as a supernatural villain to The Undertaker, so it's tough to say.
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Post by jason1980s on Nov 30, 2021 21:35:03 GMT -5
A friend of mine sent me a Warrior shoot DVD to sell for him on ebay a few years ago. I'm not sure which company did it but it was a 2 disc set. I put in the first disc and popped it out after 10 minutes. Warrior was so negative during just those 10 minutes. I know "negativity" sells shoots but this was beyond a Honkytonk or Sheik who are funny. This was a guy who was legit just a negative thinking guy who thought everyone and everything was beneath him.
I have no doubt he loved the fans but do doubt he cared about the other wrestlers in 2014. I would love to know what he was thinking prior to the Hall of Fame, I'm sure he knew his time was coming to an end so he had to embrace anyone he could and try to act positively. I do think 1996 Warrior wasn't cut out for WWF. Wrestling as a whole was coming to a point where it needed cutting edge performers and Warrior's act was a bit too late. If he had stayed with WWF in 1992, I can see him going until June 1996 but the last 6 months would have been a struggle. He wasn't the same Warrior and he also wasn't ready to be cutting edge or reinvent himself.
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auph10imitated
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Post by auph10imitated on Dec 2, 2021 10:19:51 GMT -5
I thought the hype was fine, how else would you hype it? They wanted him to return at the PPV so they cant have him appear, so other than return vignettes how do you do it? Everyone's programs were already set, so they needed a body to job to him and HHH was probably the only name they had worth the job.
Piper was replacing Razor Ramon so it wasn't a vehicle for Piper, Goldust was way too new and hot to job to Warrior clean. This is why the Piper stuff was booked the way it was, Goldust being destroyed clean for Warrior wouldnt have made much sense
I think there was, they just needed some mid card feuds to build him up again, had Shawn not been a fresh champion then i would have stuck him right in the mox, but Shawn needed to be built himself which is why they probably kept Warrior separate. Had he stayed he would have been in the title picture by the end of the year in some capacity.
I think they wanted him as an attraction, but they should have given him a reduced schedule if that was the case, i.e. TV only, that way he wouldn't have had to do HS's but I doubt his salary would have been as big then and therefore he never would have come back at all so swings and round about.
I just feel it was wrong time, wrong place - they had been trying to get him back since '95 and he may have fit better there, but '96 felt like a change of times and he was beginning to loom out of place.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Dec 2, 2021 10:59:57 GMT -5
How many total televised/taped matches did he have from this run?
-The HHH squash at Wrestlemania -vs Isaac Yankum on Raw -vs Goldust at IYH which basically isn't even a match -vs Goldust KOTR Qualifying Match -vs Lawler at KOTR PPV -vs Owen Hart where he is taken out by Camp Cornette and then suspended
Is that it? Are there any Coliseum Video or unreleased matches? I know there is a handheld copy of the Curtain Call House Show that has a Warrior match on it, but I think that's it.
As limited as the roster was in 1996, it would have been nice to have him actually work some more matches. Warrior against, Vader, Bulldog, Mankind, Kid, or even lower guys like Tatanka, Leif Cassidy, or Marty Jannetty would have been fun to see.
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