chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,990 
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Post by chazraps on Dec 18, 2021 19:19:26 GMT -5
Just making a post to cite a specific source on this. There's an erroneous statement that's been parroted over the past 25 years by contrarians that "Hogan vs Piper was NEVER announced as being for the World Heavyweight Championship."
I'm currently watching the 12/15/96 WCW weekend shows (two weeks out from the pay-per-view) and discussion of Piper potentially winning the title is all over it.
I'm watching these shows in order on the week of their 25th anniversaries and have yet to see of anything signifying the change. Will keep this thread updated when I see the change announced/eluded to on air.
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Post by horsemen4ever on Dec 18, 2021 19:29:07 GMT -5
WCW everybody.
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tafkaga
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the Dogfather
Posts: 2,127
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 20, 2021 9:34:10 GMT -5
Did anybody want to see Roddy Piper as the WCW Champion?
I did. Roddy Piper as WCW Champ through SuperBrawl '97 would have been pretty cool.
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bob
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Post by bob on Dec 20, 2021 10:39:25 GMT -5
2 guesses why this happened:
1 Hogan used creative control and said he'll put over Piper but not give him the belt
2 for some reason at their biggest show of the year WCW decided not to have their world championship defended in the main event after announcing it would be Piper vs Hogan for the belt
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 20, 2021 11:05:42 GMT -5
2 guesses why this happened: 1 Hogan used creative control and said he'll put over Piper but not give him the belt 2 for some reason at their biggest show of the year WCW decided not to have their world championship defended in the main event after announcing it would be Piper vs Hogan for the belt That, I can understand with Hogan and Piper. Piper was a selfish worker himself and rarely, if ever, did pinfall losses in WWF until Wrestlemania VIII. He had a huge run with Hogan yet wouldn't do pinfalls. It was somewhat understandable when he was a heel in the 80s but by late 80s, early 90s it really became useless to have him on PPVs and I think that's one reason Vince put him on commentary. When he returned in 1989 he had three straight PPVs were he wouldn't lose clean. Even the Royal Rumble he had to be eliminated by Bad News after Bad News was eliminated. |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,990
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Post by chazraps on Dec 23, 2021 18:41:36 GMT -5
UPDATE: The first instance that there might be a change is at the end of the 12/15/96 Worldwide, the "For the WCW World Heavyweight Title" is gone from the bottom of the Hogan-Piper graphic despite Bobby and Tony talking what it would mean for Piper to win the world title at the start and throughout the broadcast.
As of the 12/22/96 Worldwide, there's no mention of the match being for the world title whatsoever, and the promo clips plugging Hogan vs Piper have now replace "For the WCW World Heavyweight Title" with "The Match of the Century."
There's nothing indicating that the match was at one point for the title and then there was a change. I think it's fair to assume the higher ups just hoped nobody would notice it would ever have been for the belt.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,801
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Post by asuka007 on Dec 23, 2021 19:11:56 GMT -5
Piper did not want to job clean to Hogan.
Hogan refused to drop the belt to Piper.
We got that mess.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Dec 24, 2021 2:34:01 GMT -5
Piper did not want to job clean to Hogan. Hogan refused to drop the belt to Piper. We got that mess. Imagine if this happened in wwe. JBL doesn’t wanna lose the title anytime soon, Cena wins a non title match at mania 21 |
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mattyy
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Post by mattyy on Dec 24, 2021 3:01:18 GMT -5
Piper did not want to job clean to Hogan. Hogan refused to drop the belt to Piper. We got that mess. Imagine if this happened in wwe. JBL doesn’t wanna lose the title anytime soon, Cena wins a non title match at mania 21 it wouldn't have been JBL/Cena where that match happened... Triple H/Batista on the other hand? Not so out of the realm of possibility. |
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Dec 24, 2021 5:35:40 GMT -5
2 guesses why this happened: 1 Hogan used creative control and said he'll put over Piper but not give him the belt 2 for some reason at their biggest show of the year WCW decided not to have their world championship defended in the main event after announcing it would be Piper vs Hogan for the belt That, I can understand with Hogan and Piper. Piper was a selfish worker himself and rarely, if ever, did pinfall losses in WWF until Wrestlemania VIII. He had a huge run with Hogan yet wouldn't do pinfalls. It was somewhat understandable when he was a heel in the 80s but by late 80s, early 90s it really became useless to have him on PPVs and I think that's one reason Vince put him on commentary. When he returned in 1989 he had three straight PPVs were he wouldn't lose clean. Even the Royal Rumble he had to be eliminated by Bad News after Bad News was eliminated. According to Bad News in a shoot he was booked to go over Piper but Roddy refused. Bad News then refused since Piper wouldn't lose to him so as a result they ended up doing a double count out as a compromise. Bad News also had a reputation for being difficult about doing jobs so who knows how true it is. It looked like the plan for them continue to feud after Wrestlemania but then they just dropped it probably because they didn't like each other IRL, and Piper was switched to commentary while Bad News was instead programmed with Jake whom they had been teasing a feud with Rick Martel which then ended up getting delayed until the fall. |
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Dec 24, 2021 11:52:46 GMT -5
It's just so stupid. It doesn't make Hogan look better to have the belt despite being put to sleep by Piper. Just drop it and win it back.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,801
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Post by asuka007 on Dec 24, 2021 13:03:04 GMT -5
Piper did not want to job clean to Hogan. Hogan refused to drop the belt to Piper. We got that mess. Imagine if this happened in wwe. JBL doesn’t wanna lose the title anytime soon, Cena wins a non title match at mania 21 Hogan had an amount of creative control at that time that has rarely if ever been matched. |
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 24, 2021 16:16:30 GMT -5
According to Bad News in a shoot he was booked to go over Piper but Roddy refused. Bad News then refused since Piper wouldn't lose to him so as a result they ended up doing a double count out as a compromise. Bad News also had a reputation for being difficult about doing jobs so who knows how true it is. It looked like the plan for them continue to feud after Wrestlemania but then they just dropped it probably because they didn't like each other IRL, and Piper was switched to commentary while Bad News was instead programmed with Jake whom they had been teasing a feud with Rick Martel which then ended up getting delayed until the fall. Whoever put together the Bad News/Piper feud had to have been ribbing someone, whether it be one or both men or whoever was in charge of booking a match at Wrestlemania. Neither guy would lose clean! It was such a tough position because you would have to put Bad News with a guy like Tito, Koko or Hercules who would take a pin but that wouldn't make for a cool Wrestlemania feud and same goes for Piper and a heel who is willing to take a PPV pin. What I do wonder the legitimacy of is Piper's half black painted body and the Andre solvent rumor. I feel like the only two who have spoken about this are Piper and Prichard, not exactly honest engine type of guys. I would also feel like Andre would have liked Piper by that point since he had been a 10 or so year veteran and was a Vince favorite. You'd think someone, even the shoot interview regulars who will say anything for the pay day would have repeated the story. I feel like 1) it was stupid of Piper to do the half black body 2) he should have kept his solvent close by and guarded and 3) wherever he goes there should be somewhere he can get a solvent and 4) even way pre-internet, if someone sees half black Roddy Piper at an airport, someone is taking a picture that will surface in 2021. |
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Dec 24, 2021 16:43:36 GMT -5
According to Bad News in a shoot he was booked to go over Piper but Roddy refused. Bad News then refused since Piper wouldn't lose to him so as a result they ended up doing a double count out as a compromise. Bad News also had a reputation for being difficult about doing jobs so who knows how true it is. It looked like the plan for them continue to feud after Wrestlemania but then they just dropped it probably because they didn't like each other IRL, and Piper was switched to commentary while Bad News was instead programmed with Jake whom they had been teasing a feud with Rick Martel which then ended up getting delayed until the fall. Whoever put together the Bad News/Piper feud had to have been ribbing someone, whether it be one or both men or whoever was in charge of booking a match at Wrestlemania. Neither guy would lose clean! It was such a tough position because you would have to put Bad News with a guy like Tito, Koko or Hercules who would take a pin but that wouldn't make for a cool Wrestlemania feud and same goes for Piper and a heel who is willing to take a PPV pin. What I do wonder the legitimacy of is Piper's half black painted body and the Andre solvent rumor. I feel like the only two who have spoken about this are Piper and Prichard, not exactly honest engine type of guys. I would also feel like Andre would have liked Piper by that point since he had been a 10 or so year veteran and was a Vince favorite. You'd think someone, even the shoot interview regulars who will say anything for the pay day would have repeated the story. I feel like 1) it was stupid of Piper to do the half black body 2) he should have kept his solvent close by and guarded and 3) wherever he goes there should be somewhere he can get a solvent and 4) even way pre-internet, if someone sees half black Roddy Piper at an airport, someone is taking a picture that will surface in 2021. It really had disaster written all over it. Put two guys who really don't like to get pinned against each other in a feud leading a big match at Wrestlemania. Of course neither wants to lose so they end up having to do a lame unsatisfying finish that solves nothing and then you have to switch booking plans around for most of your upper midcard because they don't want to work with one another. They were kind of asking for it. I will say of the two it seemed like Bad News was the more willing to play ball in that while he rarely jobbed he did at least put over top guys like Hogan and Savage and I also saw him even take pinfalls for guys like Jake and Beefcake as well. I think if he hadn't disliked Piper personally and if they asked him to do the job first maybe he would've done it. Then again it was on PPV and a bigger audience and he couldn't even job to Jake, whom he did like, at Summerslam in what ended up being his last match for the company. Piper in his entire WWF run to my knowledge only had three televised pinfall losses. Snuka in a match that was on one of the early Best of the WWF tapes, Flair on a MSG show in I think October 91, and then Bret of course at WM VIII. That's even less then Hogan had during his original run as he had four. Andre (offically but not really as he had his shoulder up at one and the payed off Million Dollar Man ref counted three) on February 5th Main Event, Warrior at WM VI, Undertaker at Survivor Series 91, and Yokozuna at KOTR 93. As far as the solvent rumor I don't see why it wouldn't be true. Piper was the brunt of the joke so I don't get why he would lie. As far as Andre goes it's been said countless times in interviews that he either liked you or he didn't and there really wasn't anything that was going to change his mind. Piper like Savage and Jake and John Studd and Bam Bam Bigelow and countless others was someone he probably just didn't like for whatever reason. I doubt the fact they were co workers for years and Piper was a Vince favorite meant anything to him. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Dec 24, 2021 18:37:30 GMT -5
Imagine if this happened in wwe. JBL doesn’t wanna lose the title anytime soon, Cena wins a non title match at mania 21 Hogan had an amount of creative control at that time that has rarely if ever been matched. Yes and one of the only times anyone in WWF had that level of contractual creative control, we got the Montreal Screwjob. |
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 25, 2021 5:58:33 GMT -5
Imagine if this happened in wwe. JBL doesn’t wanna lose the title anytime soon, Cena wins a non title match at mania 21 it wouldn't have been JBL/Cena where that match happened... Triple H/Batista on the other hand? Not so out of the realm of possibility. Triple H honestly would have been less likely, I figure, just since Triple H was trying to put over Batista huge, which he ultimately did. I think he saw him as something of a protege. It's part of why Batista chose him for his retirement match, he felt indebted to him. JBL probably mostly would have done business just since it was at the tail-end of a long reign, so better to lose it and make a guy than dropping it to someone who's already a name. |
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Post by Edge of Insanity on Dec 25, 2021 6:49:28 GMT -5
At the end of the day, i think it comes down to the fact that they probably didn't trust Piper to agree to lose the title back to Hogan. I remember in his promo at havoc, telling Hogan I'm the only guy you have never beat. So if he was unwillingly to do the job for Hogan when Hogan was the biggest star in the world, who's gonna trust him to do it now.
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