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Post by sungod2020 on Dec 21, 2021 21:41:55 GMT -5
Inspired by my false narrative thread where someone mentioned Verne Gagne's AWA had the best chance of standing up to Vince McMahon rapid WWF expansion, I decided to make this thread giving ideas of how to keep AWA alive well into the 90s, and maybe beyond.
I can't say I know much about the Minneapolis based promotion since I was born during it's dying days, but from reading about it, I know they have made some questionable decisions towards their last decade, such as not giving a red-hot Hulk Hogan their World Championship and Verne Gagne being an out-of-touch curmudgeon who never let go of the old territorial mindset.
That being said, if you were given the books, how would you keep the American Wrestling Association from closing its doors when it did? Could they have survived without Hulk Hogan? Anything you would change with their booking?
Thoughts?
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Squirrel Master
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Post by Squirrel Master on Dec 21, 2021 22:27:21 GMT -5
I would have recruited Rick Rude to be AWA World Champion as a good contrast to Flair and Hogan and he could call them out too.
also I would’ve kept The Road Warriors under contract as the tag team title holders to start.
Later when Bill Watts’ UWF was failing, step in and buy them out, which would’ve retained solid workers like Ted DiBiase, Hacksaw Duggan, Koko Ware and Jake Roberts.
The roster would be stacked and AWA would find it’s footing.
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Post by buckethead on Dec 22, 2021 0:04:59 GMT -5
As someone who watched AWA in 1985-86, I can only think of one thing that might have kept it afloat...
Keep The Road Warriors on the roster no matter how much it costs.
The moment they dropped the belts to Garvin and Regal(a horrible team), most people changed the channel... from kids to grandparents to all points in between.
Martel losing to Stan Hansen was a mistake as well.
AWA never brought in anyone to make up for a monumental loss. Never.
They always seemed to think Bockwinkel was the answer to everything...even though he just made it worse.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 22, 2021 2:40:32 GMT -5
The biggest thing I'd probably go with is making the television not boring as shit. Yes, there are other major issues, especially star retention, but their reluctance to really do much with their television because they wanted to save everything of value for their live shows really did contribute to them coming off behind the times.
That's another issue. AWA was just... not very cool. WWF managed to come across as more hip than AWA and NWA, whereas NWA came off as the edgiest of the three. AWA was Verne in a sweater looking like a geography teacher.
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Post by government mule on Dec 22, 2021 3:52:00 GMT -5
Yeah felt like Verne really didn't see the value of the television audience, which seems like madness in hindsight many years later.
Also didn't help that he kept booking himself as champ about 20 years after he should have stopped.
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Post by buckethead on Dec 22, 2021 17:02:18 GMT -5
The biggest thing I'd probably go with is making the television not boring as shit. Yes, there are other major issues, especially star retention, but their reluctance to really do much with their television because they wanted to save everything of value for their live shows really did contribute to them coming off behind the times. That's another issue. AWA was just... not very cool. WWF managed to come across as more hip than AWA and NWA, whereas NWA came off as the edgiest of the three. AWA was Verne in a sweater looking like a geography teacher. For a brief moment in the fall of 1985, AWA had the best wrestling action figures and ring. Unfortunately, most of the country didn't realize this as they were terrible with promotion. I was the only kid at my school who had them... thanks to my grandma on Christmas 85. Had they had a clue, they should've been flying off the shelves during the holiday shopping season... just for The Road Warriors alone. |
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Dec 22, 2021 17:36:30 GMT -5
Apparently what really did the AWA in was that Gagne was bankrolling the company by leveraging money against a property that ended up being compulsory purchased and left him up shit creek.
So yeah, perhaps not doing that.
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 22, 2021 22:35:18 GMT -5
I had most of the common AWA figures when I was a kid, even the ring too. I knew who the wrestlers were but had no idea what set they were for until years later when the figure AOL boards were around. Even WCW really didn't do much with their figure lines until Toymakers started pumping out more in 1997 or 1998.
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Squirrel Master
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Post by Squirrel Master on Dec 22, 2021 22:44:42 GMT -5
Martel losing to Stan Hansen was a mistake as well. I was there to see this match live and it was sooo great! Stan Hansen wrestled brilliantly and he deserved to win the title that night. I also saw Hansen defend against Carlos Colon in Puerto Rico which was 12 minutes of superb action. Hansen was a worthy AWA champion; it’s just that when it came time to take the title off him, no one could pin him. |
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Post by koreycaskets on Dec 23, 2021 1:33:23 GMT -5
They shoulda gave Greg Gagne an Ultimate Warrior sort of gimmick.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Dec 23, 2021 6:29:03 GMT -5
More focus on younger guys, at least on tv. Use the older guys to keep live event ticket sales up. Focusing the territory on a face wrestler like Hogan or the Road Warriors. They dont always have to be the champ but a heel focused promotion is doomed to failure.
AWAs territory was large enough that they could have mostly stuck to touring in their traditional area plus some new territories that Vince was running out of business. They could have gone national on tv while keeping their more relaxed schedule that a lot of boys enjoyed to keep them happy.
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 23, 2021 10:55:01 GMT -5
No way was AWA surviving so long as Verne Gagne had anything to do with it. Everything about it just said "We're proud to be your grandpa's wrestling." There's no talent signing that would have fixed their downward spiral. The talent would have just gone down with them. And who wanted to work with Verne, except has-beens and never-will-be's, considering Verne's well known habit of screwing the talent?
The only thing I can think of that might have helped them is upping their production value and focusing on being an alternative to the mainstream product instead of an out of touch knockoff pushing Ken Patera, Adrian Adonis and any scraps they could get from the big two. Tons of empty seats is never a good look, so maybe work smaller venues. Let Greg retire instead of throwing him out there in his droopy speedos that looked like they'd been through the washing machine a few thousand too many times. Be a serious wrestling product, because they sucked at "sports entertainment".
Again though, nothing is happening with Verne in charge. The illusion would die as soon as Verne comes out with that confused look and starts drawing comparisons with the WWF.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 23, 2021 11:50:07 GMT -5
That's another issue. AWA was just... not very cool. WWF managed to come across as more hip than AWA and NWA, whereas NWA came off as the edgiest of the three. AWA was Verne in a sweater looking like a geography teacher. When WWF came in to Manitoba, and Winnipeg specifically, they killed AWA dead here and Winnipeg was a big city for them. Verne’s finger was so f***ing far from the pulse of 80’s culture he never stood a chance against Vince. |
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 23, 2021 11:51:53 GMT -5
They shoulda gave Greg Gagne an Ultimate Warrior sort of gimmick. Just picturing the same music, the same tassels and face paint, but him just having a brisk jog down to the ring, maybe a power walk. |
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 23, 2021 14:15:02 GMT -5
They shoulda gave Greg Gagne an Ultimate Warrior sort of gimmick. Just picturing the same music, the same tassels and face paint, but him just having a brisk jog down to the ring, maybe a power walk. "I'm Greg Gagne and I'm in a rage! I want Brody and I want him in a cage! Whoo!" |
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Post by buckethead on Dec 23, 2021 21:26:10 GMT -5
Martel losing to Stan Hansen was a mistake as well. I was there to see this match live and it was sooo great! Stan Hansen wrestled brilliantly and he deserved to win the title that night. I also saw Hansen defend against Carlos Colon in Puerto Rico which was 12 minutes of superb action. Hansen was a worthy AWA champion; it’s just that when it came time to take the title off him, no one could pin him. Regardless of how good the match was... WWF Champion: Hulk Hogan NWA Champion: Ric Flair AWA Champion: Stan Hansen One of those doesn't fit. In the mid 1980s, Stan Hansen does not need to be the World Champion of one of the big 3 wrestling promotions. He's a National or tag team champ at best. You simply can't build your company around Stan Hansen. |
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Post by buckethead on Dec 23, 2021 21:27:10 GMT -5
Apparently what really did the AWA in was that Gagne was bankrolling the company by leveraging money against a property that ended up being compulsory purchased and left him up shit creek. So yeah, perhaps not doing that. Verne could've won the lottery and the AWA is still going to collapse. |
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Post by ianriccaboni on Dec 23, 2021 21:57:07 GMT -5
That's another issue. AWA was just... not very cool. WWF managed to come across as more hip than AWA and NWA, whereas NWA came off as the edgiest of the three. AWA was Verne in a sweater looking like a geography teacher. When WWF came in to Manitoba, and Winnipeg specifically, they killed AWA dead here and Winnipeg was a big city for them. Verne’s finger was so f***ing far from the pulse of 80’s culture he never stood a chance against Vince. I'm not disagreeing just pointing out the odd juxtaposition that that was true but also that he knew he needed to and successfully got on cable and had action figures almost as quickly, and some say quicker!, than the WWF. |
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 24, 2021 6:42:18 GMT -5
When WWF came in to Manitoba, and Winnipeg specifically, they killed AWA dead here and Winnipeg was a big city for them. Verne’s finger was so f***ing far from the pulse of 80’s culture he never stood a chance against Vince. I'm not disagreeing just pointing out the odd juxtaposition that that was true but also that he knew he needed to and successfully got on cable and had action figures almost as quickly, and some say quicker!, than the WWF. Not to mention who he did have that could have been promoted better. OK, AWA, boring wrestling, but they had Hogan, they had the Road Warriors, they had people who'd be filling out half the WWF 80s cards at some point. It was how they used them, they could have promoted themselves as halfway between the WWF and NWA, having big characters, but also cutting edge wrestling with the likes of Martel, Rude, The Rockers etc. |
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Dec 24, 2021 8:53:19 GMT -5
I was there to see this match live and it was sooo great! Stan Hansen wrestled brilliantly and he deserved to win the title that night. I also saw Hansen defend against Carlos Colon in Puerto Rico which was 12 minutes of superb action. Hansen was a worthy AWA champion; it’s just that when it came time to take the title off him, no one could pin him. Regardless of how good the match was... WWF Champion: Hulk Hogan NWA Champion: Ric Flair AWA Champion: Stan Hansen One of those doesn't fit. In the mid 1980s, Stan Hansen does not need to be the World Champion of one of the big 3 wrestling promotions. He's a National or tag team champ at best. You simply can't build your company around Stan Hansen. It is a fair point. I love Stan Hansen and he was a great draw in Japan. But when we stack him up against Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair, well he's just not quite in that rarified air. But that's part of the problem. Ric Flairs and Hulk Hogans don't exactly grow on trees. Verne's best bet may have been one of Vince's top stars getting fed up with the company and leaving to be someone else's top dog. But leaving the white hot WWF to go work for that sinking ship in Minnesota would've been like Jeff Jarrett going to WCW during the Attitude Era, which he did but it is still shocking all these years later for a reason. Only at least with Jarrett despite the decline, in 1999 WCW was still doing great business, especially by today's standards. Being a hot commodity in 1980's WWF and leaving to be the top dog in the AWA would've been a thousand times worse. There were a lot of drugs in the 1980s. But no top guy was coked up or dumb enough to make that jump. |
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