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Bioshock 2
Jan 10, 2022 17:38:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Limity (BLM) on Jan 10, 2022 17:38:07 GMT -5
As I type this, I am finishing my millionth playthrough of Bioshock 2, having gotten my preferred ending by saving the little sisters and punishing the guilty.
Bioshock 2 is by far my favorite Bioshock game. I think the gameplay is so much better and more fun than the first, which always seems clunky and unrefined by comparison. I also think the antagonist is far better in 2 than 1. Frank Fontaine is almost comical being a sneering Irish stereotype, but Sofia Lamb is a perfectly designed character you just LOVE to hate. Plus I like the symmetry of the first game exploring a twisted version of Ayn Rand's objectivism, and the second game introducing an equally twisted version of collectivism.
I'm playing the remastered version, and while it has its share of bugs and glitches like all remasters seem to have to have, I think 2 is absolutely beautiful, with its vibrant colors and shading and shadows. I especially love exploring the noir/Edward Hopper inspired Pauper's Drop level.
While Bioshock 1 seems to have all the acclaim and praise, I would consider 2 the superior game. What about everyone else?
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Bioshock 2
Jan 10, 2022 17:47:29 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by J Lee O'Brien on Jan 10, 2022 17:47:29 GMT -5
Gameplay perspective, 2 beats 1 hands down while Infinite is its own beast.
No one remembers the big story beats of 2 though. People remember the first glimpse of Rapture and Ryan's spiel. Would You Kindly. Sander Cohen and Fort Frolic. Andrew Ryan and the golf club.
I don't remember much of anything from 2.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Jan 10, 2022 17:58:34 GMT -5
Gameplay perspective, 2 beats 1 hands down while Infinite is its own beast. No one remembers the big story beats of 2 though. People remember the first glimpse of Rapture and Ryan's spiel. Would You Kindly. Sander Cohen and Fort Frolic. Andrew Ryan and the golf club. I don't remember much of anything from 2. Now that's a good point, right now I can't look back and think of any single particular story moment like in Bioshock 1. There are no twists in 2, and everything is pretty straight forward. The big stand out moments for me are incredibly fun moments of gameplay, like when I shot up a Big Sister with trap bolts, and she froze for a split second as if realizing what was about to happen, then they all started going off on her, ragdolling her all over the place.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 10, 2022 19:27:37 GMT -5
I have many issues with 2 but it is an underrated game. I will say that it is at least a very fun game. Infinite is so story heavy and idea driven that it often forgets to be a good game.
Yahtzee pointed out a key issue with 2's setup from the jump. How is proto Daddy vastly superior to legit Daddy?
I also strongly resented having a euthanasia choice in there. If you have a binary idea of good and evil, euthanasia is not a cut and dry issue. That made me mad for the rest of the game.
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Bioshock 2
Jan 10, 2022 19:33:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Limity (BLM) on Jan 10, 2022 19:33:10 GMT -5
I have many issues with 2 but it is an underrated game. I will say that it is at least a very fun game. Infinite is so story heavy and idea driven that it often forgets to be a good game. Yahtzee pointed out a key issue with 2's setup from the jump. How is proto Daddy vastly superior to legit Daddy? I also strongly resented having a euthanasia choice in there. If you have a binary idea of good and evil, euthanasia is not a cut and dry issue. That made me mad for the rest of the game. If you're referring to Gil Alexander, I agree, it's too vague to be a right or wrong. If it hadn't counted towards an ending, and was just a standalone what do you do scenario, it would have been fine, even fascinating to dissect. Do you listen to the Gil Alenxander that is no more, and honor a request he might have changed his mind on but didn't record, or do you allow Gil Alexander as he is now to survive on a promise to go out and do no more harm?
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Jan 10, 2022 19:43:00 GMT -5
I prefer it to the first. As I played the second one before I played the first, I didn’t really get invested in the storyline of Bioshock as I already knew the major plot twists anyway. As stated above, the second just plays so much better overall.
I loved playing Infinite but I didn’t really get what was happening with the story as I went through it. I do however remember damn near shitting myself at the point when you turn around and one of those “silence” creatures (or whatever their name is) is standing there in front of you.
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Post by Starshine on Jan 10, 2022 20:09:07 GMT -5
2 is the only one of the series I haven't played. But with a recent self-mandate of not really planning on going anywhere at the moment, I might have to change that.
I have heard the DLC is really good.
f*** it, I may just go back and replay the whole series again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2022 20:14:25 GMT -5
Gameplay perspective, 2 beats 1 hands down while Infinite is its own beast. No one remembers the big story beats of 2 though. People remember the first glimpse of Rapture and Ryan's spiel. Would You Kindly. Sander Cohen and Fort Frolic. Andrew Ryan and the golf club. I don't remember much of anything from 2. Eleanor Lamb is all I need to remember from BioShock 2. In my opinion, the best character in the series. The plot of the game revolves around you trying to save her, given you're the Big Daddy to her Little Sister, and the story unravels how she became a Little Sister, ultimately with her switching roles from the damsel to the heroine. It's a shame you can only use her abilities for the last 5-10% of the game, because it felt like such a good reward to reach her, and your actions in the game help dictate the kind of person she becomes in the end.
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Flo360
Hank Scorpio
There is no truth in Wrestling...only Backbumps
Posts: 6,300
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Post by Flo360 on Jan 12, 2022 4:54:17 GMT -5
Bioshock 2 has no themes. Okay, maybe it has, but they are somewhat muddled and not as focused, and supported by the individual gameplay, as they where in 1 and Infinite. Thus it is a much worse game.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Jan 13, 2022 6:26:21 GMT -5
2 is a superior game to 1 but I would argue it's an inferior experience. It's clear throughout a lot of 2 that the team's mandate was 'more, bigger, don't ask why' and Sophia Lamb was such a 'both sides' villain that didn't seem developed beyond 'the opposite of Andrew Ryan.' It feels a lot better to play, however, even beyond your weapons not feeling like peashooters. Then Minerva's Den dropped and it literally became the most consistent creation with the word 'Bioshock' on the front of it.
We don't talk about 3. That beautiful disaster.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2022 10:14:32 GMT -5
2 is a superior game to 1 but I would argue it's an inferior experience. It's clear throughout a lot of 2 that the team's mandate was 'more, bigger, don't ask why' and Sophia Lamb was such a 'both sides' villain that didn't seem developed beyond 'the opposite of Andrew Ryan.' It feels a lot better to play, however, even beyond your weapons not feeling like peashooters. Then Minerva's Den dropped and it literally became the most consistent creation with the word 'Bioshock' on the front of it. We don't talk about 3. That beautiful disaster. BioShock 2 exists largely because Take-Two Interactive saw how successful BioShock was and insisted a sequel be made quickly, so the creative energy for narration isn't there (all that went into Infinite, which... well...). It's not that the staff that was on hand didn't try with the story, but they weren't as adept with writing, so it instead plays it safer with duality moral choices. Again, I argue it still has the best character in the entire franchise with Eleanor, but everything else, including her own mother, isn't as great. I kind of wish people who talk about BioShock for clicks at least discuss the game more as I feel there's a lot of narrative essays on BioShock as well as Infinite, while 2 is treated as "oh, that cashgrab game". That said, Minerva's Den does feature some excellent writing and follows along with the spirit of the series.
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Bioshock 2
Jan 14, 2022 19:10:50 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Limity (BLM) on Jan 14, 2022 19:10:50 GMT -5
2 is a superior game to 1 but I would argue it's an inferior experience. It's clear throughout a lot of 2 that the team's mandate was 'more, bigger, don't ask why' and Sophia Lamb was such a 'both sides' villain that didn't seem developed beyond 'the opposite of Andrew Ryan.' It feels a lot better to play, however, even beyond your weapons not feeling like peashooters. Then Minerva's Den dropped and it literally became the most consistent creation with the word 'Bioshock' on the front of it. We don't talk about 3. That beautiful disaster. BioShock 2 exists largely because Take-Two Interactive saw how successful BioShock was and insisted a sequel be made quickly, so the creative energy for narration isn't there (all that went into Infinite, which... well...). It's not that the staff that was on hand didn't try with the story, but they weren't as adept with writing, so it instead plays it safer with duality moral choices. Again, I argue it still has the best character in the entire franchise with Eleanor, but everything else, including her own mother, isn't as great. I kind of wish people who talk about BioShock for clicks at least discuss the game more as I feel there's a lot of narrative essays on BioShock as well as Infinite, while 2 is treated as "oh, that cashgrab game". That said, Minerva's Den does feature some excellent writing and follows along with the spirit of the series. I love (to hate) the Sofia Lamb antagonist, and like I said in the OP, I consider her better than Fontaine. That might just be that I'm personally predisposed to loathe people and characters like her. And the story itself I like, as I felt it was organic to the first. An unhealthy and extreme swing to one end of the philosophical spectrum is responded to by an equally extreme swing to the other end. 2's DLC is incredible, though, and I'm glad to see it being appreciated here. I love the retro futuristic style. I wish the gravity well plasmid was available in the main game, I get such a kick out of using it. This last playthrough, I spammed Reed Wahl with it. He was stuck under the dead Alpha Big Daddies, and on the second to last time I got him, I just heard him go, "ugh," from under the pile of massive bodies.
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Post by Hurbster on Jan 14, 2022 20:57:04 GMT -5
It's my favourite game of the series. Didn't like 3 at all. Then again I don't like depressing games.
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