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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2022 14:12:08 GMT -5
1.0 was practically set up to fail , specifcially post survivor series because and it has been said nmerous times WWE gave them NOTHING as far as marketing the show and trying to get more eyes on the show....nothing no plugs on Raw etc and it was proven how detrimetal this was because Halloween Havoc one of like two other times they made some attempt at pushing the show and it won the head to head that night.
And the stars that did show up in NXT were also never plugged ...the Edge appearnace was especially all horeshit because it was literally menbtoned 1HR BEFORE THE SHOW AIRED ON TWITTER!! seriously WTF was that and his appearnace then ammounted to absoloutley nothing except a few cock teases that lead to nothing.
Compare that to 2.0...getting plugs on the show , they got talent showing on Raw , marqee names going down to NXT to actually have matches and not just meandering appearances.
There is a clear line here...one was given nothing while the other is activly trying to get the effort that 1.0 deserved.
And that IMO was the biggest failure of 1.0.
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mistery
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Post by mistery on Jan 18, 2022 14:23:22 GMT -5
1.0 was practically set up to fail , specifcially post survivor series because and it has been said nmerous times WWE gave them NOTHING as far as marketing the show and trying to get more eyes on the show....nothing no plugs on Raw etc and it was proven how detrimetal this was because Halloween Havoc one of like two other times they made some attempt at pushing the show and it won the head to head that night. And the stars that did show up in NXT were also never plugged ...the Edge appearnace was especially all horeshit because it was literally menbtoned 1HR BEFORE THE SHOW AIRED ON TWITTER!! seriously WTF was that and his appearnace then ammounted to absoloutley nothing except a few cock teases that lead to nothing. Compare that to 2.0...getting plugs on the show , they got talent showing on Raw , marqee names going down to NXT to actually have matches and not just meandering appearances. There is a clear line here...one was given nothing while the other is activly trying to get the effort that 1.0 deserved. And that IMO was the biggest failure of 1.0. Yup. To add to your point, despite 2.0 getting incredibly heavy advertising compared to 1.0, ratings are actually lower on average. Now imagine what 2.0 numbers would look like if they got treated like 1.0 when it comes to advertising or attention from the main roster. We would probably be looking at pretty far below 600k on the regular. It's pretty obvious the goal of NXT 2.0 is to build up stars that Vince thinks would be cool. The problem is that Vince doesn't know what's cool and what will bring people in these days. I wouldn't be shocked if NXT 2.0 ends up flopping, that the axe falls on Bruce and Johnny. RAW is already teetering dangerously close to falling to a 1.4m viewer average. Smackdown has stagnated at 2m viewers. NXT 2.0 is regularly on the very low end of 600k, if not lower. With the demo getting older and older.
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ronin705
Dennis Stamp
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Post by ronin705 on Jan 18, 2022 14:48:59 GMT -5
In every sense of the word, YES.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2022 15:01:44 GMT -5
I'd like to answer the OP's question with whatever the opposite of the Ambrose 'nope' gif is. They're small indyriffic "rasslers". Some people might enjoy that but the vast majority don't. I love this argument that the public don't enjoy "proper wrestling", like Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels weren't massive stars for the company. They are more likely to leave the station on when they see The Fiend possess Randy Orton. How's those record-low ratings going? WWE nearly went out of business when Bret and Shawn were at the top. I like them both. They're 2 of my favorites ever but it doesn't change the fact that Austin saved the company.
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Post by Tiffany Stratton's Daddy on Jan 18, 2022 15:07:07 GMT -5
Without knowing, I say it's partially the reason. And unfortunately, it might be the reason Vince doesn't hand WWE off to Triple H. This had to be the final nail in the coffin.
I also think you have to remember what NXT was supposed to be, a breeding ground for the main roster. Looking at the transition from NXT to the main roster in recent years doesn't have a good track record. Blame Vince if you want, but that's the reality.
Vince likely wanted a more hands-on approach to the developmental system, seeing he needs stars that fit his brand. He can develop who he wants and how he wants and can easily transition them to the main roster, rather than picking someone and having to change everything about them to fit the main roster mold.
It's frustrating, and it feels Vince is out of touch, but he truly has created and lives in his own world.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2022 15:11:08 GMT -5
]WWE nearly went out of business when Bret and Shawn were at the top. I like them both. They're 2 of my favorites ever but it doesn't change the fact that Austin saved the company. That is a really simple understanding of history and, honestly, you likely know that. That’s like me saying the reason Retribution didn’t work because they had a member called Slapjack. That’s a small microcosm of what was going on.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2022 16:55:02 GMT -5
I love the new NXT for what it is, but I just wonder what's going to happen when the guy who failed to do anything with Aleister Black, Ruby Riott, and Keith Lee runs out of other people to blame when he also f***s up Tony D'Angelo and Carmelo Hayes.
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mistery
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Post by mistery on Jan 18, 2022 17:06:22 GMT -5
I love the new NXT for what it is, but I just wonder what's going to happen when the guy who failed to do anything with Aleister Black, Ruby Riott, and Keith Lee runs out of other people to blame when he also f***s up Tony D'Angelo and Carmelo Hayes. He'll just fire the people running the show. Which right now is Bruce Pritchard.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 18, 2022 17:21:30 GMT -5
I'd like to answer the OP's question with whatever the opposite of the Ambrose 'nope' gif is. I love this argument that the public don't enjoy "proper wrestling", like Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels weren't massive stars for the company. How's those record-low ratings going? WWE nearly went out of business when Bret and Shawn were at the top. I like them both. They're 2 of my favorites ever but it doesn't change the fact that Austin saved the company. The repercussions of the scandals from the drug fueled excesses of Rock and Wrestling, and the crappy booking of the New Generation era had more to do with the downturn than Bret and Shawn's size. Let's not forget Diesel, Razor, Undertaker, Yoko, Crush, Bam Bam and others were all heavily featured in that era too, they were all huge and none of them drew.
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Feyrhausen
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jan 18, 2022 17:48:59 GMT -5
WWE nearly went out of business when Bret and Shawn were at the top. I like them both. They're 2 of my favorites ever but it doesn't change the fact that Austin saved the company. The repercussions of the scandals from the drug fueled excesses of Rock and Wrestling, and the crappy booking of the New Generation era had more to do with the downturn than Bret and Shawn's size. Let's not forget Diesel, Razor, Undertaker, Yoko, Crush, Bam Bam and others were all heavily featured in that era too, they were all huge and none of them drew. Yep. Nash drew the worst and he fit the Vince mold perfectly.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 18, 2022 17:58:52 GMT -5
I can appreciate both sides of wrestling. But I totally get Vince's vision. Wrestling needs a boom again and we aren't gonna get it with these vanilla midgets, jack. As the Hulkster says, these Cruiserweights can Cruiser-Wait, brother. Yeah, no. The cruiserweights were super important to the success of WCW - they would be specifically used to counter-program against WWF in the second hour and other parts of the show.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2022 17:59:30 GMT -5
The repercussions of the scandals from the drug fueled excesses of Rock and Wrestling, and the crappy booking of the New Generation era had more to do with the downturn than Bret and Shawn's size. Let's not forget Diesel, Razor, Undertaker, Yoko, Crush, Bam Bam and others were all heavily featured in that era too, they were all huge and none of them drew. Yep. Nash drew the worst and he fit the Vince mold perfectly. And even with Diesal, guy was getting over being more of the Kevin Nash we'd know from WCW and TNA except the moment he won the belt, he was turned into a typical Hogan-esque babyface and people saw right through that. I can appreciate both sides of wrestling. But I totally get Vince's vision. Wrestling needs a boom again and we aren't gonna get it with these vanilla midgets, jack. As the Hulkster says, these Cruiserweights can Cruiser-Wait, brother. Yeah, no. The cruiserweights were super important to the success of WCW - they would be specifically used to counter-program against WWF in the second hour and other parts of the show. It's always funny how when these discussions about wrestling being big in the 90s, way too many people ignore the fact that the cruiserweights were in that era too. Like, what, did those matches not get included in the 83 weeks Nitro beat Raw? Because they were crushing them in the ratings as much as anything else on the show was. Oh, and super over with crowds, too. You know, the crowds that don't care for "vanilla midgets", apparently.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 18, 2022 18:07:16 GMT -5
Yep. Nash drew the worst and he fit the Vince mold perfectly. And even with Diesal, guy was getting over being more of the Kevin Nash we'd know from WCW and TNA except the moment he won the belt, he was turned into a typical Hogan-esque babyface and people saw right through that. Yeah, no. The cruiserweights were super important to the success of WCW - they would be specifically used to counter-program against WWF in the second hour and other parts of the show. It's always funny how when these discussions about wrestling being big in the 90s, everyone seems to be ignoring that the cruiserweights were in that era too. Like, what, did those matches not get included in the 83 weeks Nitro beat Raw? Because they were crushing them in the ratings as much as anything else on the show was. Oh, and super over with crowds, too. You know, the crowds that don't care for "vanilla midgets", apparently. I get that WCW died because Turner decided they didn't want to be in the business anymore, but how did they get to be dispensable in the first place? They ignored all of the young, athletic stars that people wanted to see more of - guys like Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, etc. - and instead beat every possible combination of Hogan/Goldberg/Sting/DDP/Nash/Hall/Steiner into the ground. Anyways, to get us back on track, no. NXT 1.0 ending wasn't directly because they were being beaten up by AEW. It ended because Vince has a very narrow, misguided view of who a star can actually be in his company. Let's be real, Vince had to be dragged kicking and screaming into believing Austin could be the guy, too. It's also a self-fulfilling prophecy. Vince doesn't think these guys will be stars, so HHH has to hide them in NXT instead of letting them go try and make their own way on the main roster. Let's not forget NXT was definitely getting stale by the time they started going head-to-head with AEW and that was in large part because the roster had gotten really stagnant. I won't deny that NXT 1.0 was broken by the end and in need of a fresh coat of paint (just maybe not neon splatter), but the reality is also that maybe main roster WWE should have been taking more risks and cues from NXT instead of just ruining the bulk of callups because they don't fit some mold that doesn't work anymore.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2022 18:18:22 GMT -5
Again, NXT was f***ed up the moment the two blockheads in HHH and Vince couldn't sit in a room together and draw up a plan on how they want a new developmental to go. When Vince let HHH do what he wanted, it basically rang the death knell for the whole thing even before it started.
And on a more short-term reason, have you ever heard of a live TV show that was told last minute to change its format in a week and then get used to it in two weeks so it could take on another live show of the same nature head to head? No, because most people in television wouldn't do something that braindead. But Vince isn't most people in television.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 18, 2022 18:21:06 GMT -5
Again, NXT was f***ed up the moment the two blockheads in HHH and Vince couldn't sit in a room together and draw up a plan on how they want a new developmental to go. When Vince let HHH do what he wanted, it basically rang the death knell for the whole thing even before it started. And on a more short-term reason, have you ever heard of a live TV show that was told last minute to change its format in a week and then get used to it in two weeks so it could take on another live show of the same nature head to head? No, because most people in television wouldn't do something that braindead. But Vince isn't most people in television. I also kind of wonder if keeping NXT in Full Sail was a mistake. There were probably larger arenas in the area that they could have run which made it feel more major league. Granted, the pandemic happened shortly after the two shows started going head-to-head, but I think presentation goes a long way.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2022 18:23:04 GMT -5
Again, NXT was f***ed up the moment the two blockheads in HHH and Vince couldn't sit in a room together and draw up a plan on how they want a new developmental to go. When Vince let HHH do what he wanted, it basically rang the death knell for the whole thing even before it started. And on a more short-term reason, have you ever heard of a live TV show that was told last minute to change its format in a week and then get used to it in two weeks so it could take on another live show of the same nature head to head? No, because most people in television wouldn't do something that braindead. But Vince isn't most people in television. I also kind of wonder if keeping NXT in Full Sail was a mistake. There were probably larger arenas in the area that they could have run which made it feel more major league. Granted, the pandemic happened shortly after the two shows started going head-to-head, but I think presentation goes a long way. Honestly, I do think the plan with that was to do smaller venues as that was rumored right after the move to USA and to two hours was announced so it'd have been a heck of a What If scenario if that were to have happened.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 18, 2022 18:24:57 GMT -5
It's 2022 can we stop talking about the mythical "Casual fan" ... they don't exist... you shouldn't be banking your success on people THAT MIGHT accidentally stumble on your product... and work towards... like pleasing the people that you already have as fans, especially when you aren't retaining them...
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 18, 2022 18:25:01 GMT -5
I also kind of wonder if keeping NXT in Full Sail was a mistake. There were probably larger arenas in the area that they could have run which made it feel more major league. Granted, the pandemic happened shortly after the two shows started going head-to-head, but I think presentation goes a long way. Honestly, I do think the plan with that was to do smaller venues as that was rumored right after the move to USA and to two hours was announced so it'd have been a heck of a What If scenario if that were to have happened. Yeah, for sure. I feel like the pandemic has essentially erased most of early 2020 NXT from my brain.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Jan 18, 2022 19:11:33 GMT -5
I think Vince's thought process is more along the lines of "My son-in-law wants to do a show for the nerds because he says we can make money off nerds but I think he really just wants the nerds to like him and stop talking shit about him on the internet and oh look now the nerds have made their own nerd show off a nerd money mark and Paul can't even get the nerds to like him why didn't Stephanie marry a real man like me"
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RKTaker
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by RKTaker on Jan 18, 2022 20:17:50 GMT -5
"Punishment" is probably the wrong word as I don't think Vince did it to be petty or send a message. I think he just genuinely felt NXT had failed at it's original goal of producing stars for Raw and SmackDown, and so he decided to bring it back to basics with younger guys developed in-house being the focus. It didn’t generate stars because the booking for the main roster is horrendous
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