THAT Ladder Spot

[petef3]

Jan 28, 2022 8:45:29 GMT -5 mo said:

Match got five stars from Big Dave, won’t really argue about that one.

I will. Five stars for that is absolute lunacy. It had an all-timer of a spot and a few other really good ones, but as a match? It was basically a series of spots, and the Fuego involvement was stupid and pointless.

The counterargument would be that going by Dave's wacky modern scale, 5 stars is more of a "good solid thumbs up" than an all-time classic.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

That spot was so f***ing clean and flawless

That’s what Sammy can bring to the table and I want more of that especially as a babyface

[smokinvokoun86]

That ladder match was one of the greatest ladder matches of all time, so yeah, 5 stars is well deserved.

[chrom]

Four and a quarter stars I'd say it was

[polarbearpete]

5 stars seems lunacy, but Meltzer’s ratings the last few years have gotten a little wonky. I had it around 3.75-4 star range.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

5 stars absolutely seems fine to me. One of the best one on one ladder matches I've seen. Phenomenal stuff.

[EP 54 is banned from Collision]

Wrestling is subjective. I give it MINUS 5 STARS. Because it didn't involve Kidd Bandit in any way.

[Bo Rida]

Damn that was amazing. I can't control my body that well at ground level.

The rest of the match was good too but not 5* imo, by Meltzer's star ratings that would make it better than all the classic tlc matches.

[asuka007]

I feel like complaining that a freaking ladder match is a “spot fest” REALLY misses the point of what most fans love about them.

That is what most people remember from here types of matches, the big spots.

Also I don’t care if a match is a “spot fest” as long as you do it right.

[The Ichi]

Jan 28, 2022 16:29:32 GMT -5 asuka007 said:

I feel like complaining that a freaking ladder match is a “spot fest” REALLY misses the point of what most fans love about them.

That is what most people remember from here types of matches, the big spots.

Also I don’t care if a match is a “spot fest” as long as you do it right.

It's always funny to me when people complain that these crazy gimmick matches have crazy gimmick stuff in them. That's kind of the point of them. If they focused more on psychology and selling there would just be a lot of laying around in pain, and that's not very exciting to watch.

[Fade is a CodyCryBaby]

Jan 28, 2022 18:37:11 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Jan 28, 2022 16:29:32 GMT -5 asuka007 said:

I feel like complaining that a freaking ladder match is a “spot fest” REALLY misses the point of what most fans love about them.

That is what most people remember from here types of matches, the big spots.

Also I don’t care if a match is a “spot fest” as long as you do it right.

It's always funny to me when people complain that these crazy gimmick matches have crazy gimmick stuff in them. That's kind of the point of them. If they focused more on psychology and selling there would just be a lot of laying around in pain, and that's not very exciting to watch.

People remember the Shawn/Ramon and Jeff/Taker match and it’s not for the spots. I’m personally fine with either but think there’s a difference between doing gimmick matches going spot-galore and being more sound in psychology. And both can be good, both are fine. This actually felt like a hybrid between the two for me personally.

[repomark]

Just brilliant, my only slight criticism is that wasn’t the finish! Where could they go from there? Top drawer match on a great show though.

[petef3]

Jan 28, 2022 19:34:44 GMT -5 Fade is a CodyCryBaby said:

Jan 28, 2022 18:37:11 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

It's always funny to me when people complain that these crazy gimmick matches have crazy gimmick stuff in them. That's kind of the point of them. If they focused more on psychology and selling there would just be a lot of laying around in pain, and that's not very exciting to watch.

People remember the Shawn/Ramon and Jeff/Taker match and it’s not for the spots. I’m personally fine with either but think there’s a difference between doing gimmick matches going spot-galore and being more sound in psychology. And both can be good, both are fine. This actually felt like a hybrid between the two for me personally.

Bingo. Those are the two best ladder matches I've seen and it wasn't because of the loony spots in either case. Also, my complaints about Fuego's involvement had nothing to do with the spots.

[The Ichi]

Jan 28, 2022 19:34:44 GMT -5 Fade is a CodyCryBaby said:

Jan 28, 2022 18:37:11 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

It's always funny to me when people complain that these crazy gimmick matches have crazy gimmick stuff in them. That's kind of the point of them. If they focused more on psychology and selling there would just be a lot of laying around in pain, and that's not very exciting to watch.

People remember the Shawn/Ramon and Jeff/Taker match and it’s not for the spots. I’m personally fine with either but think there’s a difference between doing gimmick matches going spot-galore and being more sound in psychology. And both can be good, both are fine. This actually felt like a hybrid between the two for me personally.

Shawn/Razor has the distinction of being the first ever ladder match, but even that one I mostly just remember Shawn's splash off the ladder and the end sequence. My point was all the well known gimmick matches have these big spots, they're basically highlight reel fodder. Cody/Sammy was a bit spottier than usual but there were some breather moments as well.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

I mean, if you want a psychology based Ladder match, Jericho vs. Benoit is probably the best I can think of, but it also suffers from being very awkward in retrospect with a few spots they did do.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Not a huge fan of the match but that spot was electric.

[petef3]

Jan 28, 2022 20:31:31 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Jan 28, 2022 19:34:44 GMT -5 Fade is a CodyCryBaby said:

People remember the Shawn/Ramon and Jeff/Taker match and it’s not for the spots. I’m personally fine with either but think there’s a difference between doing gimmick matches going spot-galore and being more sound in psychology. And both can be good, both are fine. This actually felt like a hybrid between the two for me personally.

Shawn/Razor has the distinction of being the first ever ladder match, but even that one I mostly just remember Shawn's splash off the ladder and the end sequence. My point was all the well known gimmick matches have these big spots, they're basically highlight reel fodder. Cody/Sammy was a bit spottier than usual but there were some breather moments as well.

I should have clarified, I was talking about the second Shawn-Razor match, which was more psychology-based by necessity and a better match for it.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Meltzer gave this match 5 stars, for what it's worth

I definitely would give this spot in isolation like 10 stars lol

[Mozenrath]

My only complaint about the 5 stars being given to this is that I think he honestly used to be too stingy with them. Like, Edge/Christian vs the "New Brood"/Hardy Boyz in the Terri Invitational honestly would have gotten a 5 from me, and likely one of the first couple of TLCs, but it's subjective. Dave hasn't exactly made a secret of the fact that modern day wrestling has a lot of people who work in a way he likes a lot, so it plus the availability of wrestling being higher in an internet age mean that it isn't exactly shocking 5 stars would become more common. It'd be weirder if they didn't.

[smokinvokoun86]

Jan 29, 2022 20:04:49 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

My only complaint about the 5 stars being given to this is that I think he honestly used to be too stingy with them. Like, Edge/Christian vs the "New Brood"/Hardy Boyz in the Terri Invitational honestly would have gotten a 5 from me, and likely one of the first couple of TLCs, but it's subjective. Dave hasn't exactly made a secret of the fact that modern day wrestling has a lot of people who work in a way he likes a lot, so it plus the availability of wrestling being higher in an internet age mean that it isn't exactly shocking 5 stars would become more common. It'd be weirder if they didn't.

Yeah. it’s really just the guy’s opinion. I think people, either they love him or not, give Dave’s opinion too much power. Even if he thought it was a 5 star and heck, I thought it was because I also like that style of match. If someone else doesn’t, that’s fine. It’s not worth hand wringing over because it. How many movies that are beloved now, did Siskel and Ebert give two thumbs down too. And heck, even Ebert gave the movie “Benji The Hunted” a thumbs up and Full Metal Jacket a thumbs down. But again, it’s just one guy’s opinion.