Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Feb 1, 2023 12:28:27 GMT -5
It's surprising how much the abbreviated 40-day retirement last winter ended up doing the most harm to his otherwise bulletproof legacy. The moment Tom Brady posted the video to Instagram this morning, it was met with instant skepticism, because we've heard this before. And I can guarantee that even if he does stay retired for good, the moment a star quarterback on a championship contender gets hurt in the 2023 season, people will start inquiring about whether Tom Brady has the itch to come back. We've seen it all season with Rob Gronkowski and we'll probably see it with Tom Brady until he's donning his gold jacket in Canton. But if this is it, and I hope it is, it's the end of an era. For 22 seasons, Tom Brady has been the standard bearer in the NFL. He's been a part of three generations' worth of quarterback debates and he's won all of them in convincing fashion. He's had three Hall of Fame-caliber careers in a single career: 2000-2008: 3 Super Bowl wins, 26,446 passing yards, 197 touchdowns, 87-24 record in the regular season, 14-3 record in the postseason, 1 MVP, 3 Pro Bowls 2009-2016: 2 Super Bowl wins, 35,136 passing yards, 259 touchdowns, 96-28 record in the regular season, 11-6 record in the postseason, 1 MVP, 8 Pro Bowls 2017-2022: 2 Super Bowl wins, 27,632 passing yards, 193 touchdowns, 68-30 record in the regular season, 10-4 record in the postseason, 1 MVP, 3 Pro Bowls For reference, Pro Football Reference has this thing called the "Hall of Fame monitor," a formula to help people get a quick idea of the strength of a player's candidacy for induction to Canton. The average Hall of Fame quarterback has a score of 109. Tom Brady has a score of 263. He's in a league of his own. He's Michael Jordan. He's Babe Ruth. And we got to see it for two decades. He is the greatest to ever play the game and no one will ever approach his absolute dominance over the league. All Pro is always a better determining factor than pro bowl in my personal view. I actually think he would have come back if the Dolphins had been interested, but they supposedly weren't. He was touring a school for his kids in Miami a few weeks ago, they all live there...I don't think he had any interest in moving across the country for a what if or playing for some crap ass team. I think it's an interesting debate of how he'll be viewed some years down the line. Is he Jordan or Ruth, or is he Bill Russell. I think he's the most accomplished or decorated player of all time, the greatest winner of all time. That doesn't always go hand in hand with being the greatest player of all time. I do think some years down the line Brady will fill the Russell greatest winner of all time role while someone else will get the Jordan mantle. I also wonder if all of his records will stand because of longevity or if the way the game has changed will mean they'll get passed up sooner rather than later.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 1, 2023 13:07:55 GMT -5
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,061
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Post by Mecca on Feb 1, 2023 13:15:00 GMT -5
He's completely wording that wrong...Aaron Rodgers in his prime and Patrick Mahomes are the "best" QB's I've seen play the game. Brady isn't the most gifted or the pure greatest talent to ever do it, he's the greatest winner. It's also weird that he used Montana. I could easily make the argument that Montana was propped up by his supporting cast for the majority of his career.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,288
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Post by Push R Truth on Feb 1, 2023 13:35:40 GMT -5
In today's media you gotta say shit just to get clicks. There's not a lot of clicks in saying "Yeah Brady is the GOAT". There is clicks in saying "Brady never completed a 4th and 18 so Kirk Cousins is better in the clutch."
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Post by Cyno on Feb 1, 2023 14:15:48 GMT -5
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,915
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Post by BRV on Feb 1, 2023 14:42:51 GMT -5
He's completely wording that wrong...Aaron Rodgers in his prime and Patrick Mahomes are the "best" QB's I've seen play the game. Brady isn't the most gifted or the pure greatest talent to ever do it, he's the greatest winner. It's also weird that he used Montana. I could easily make the argument that Montana was propped up by his supporting cast for the majority of his career. It's such an oddly hyper-specific thing for Mike Francesa to say. Like, yeah, Joe Montana was unbeaten in Super Bowls and didn't throw an interception in any of his four Super Bowl appearances. But Tom Brady also never lost a playoff game by 46 points (Joe Montana did in 1986), went one-and-done in three consecutive postseasons (Joe Montana did from 1985 to 1987), or rode the bench in the playoffs despite being healthy (Joe Montana did in 1992). So you can nitpick at any quarterback's resume if you dig deep enough. Also, to call Peyton Manning the best regular season quarterback of all-time, isn't that the definition of damning with faint praise? Ask Karl Malone or Charles Barkley how much they loved dominating the regular season only to wilt in the playoffs. Ask Dan Marino if he'd give back his regular season excellence for just one Lombardi Trophy. The whole point of sports is to win the championship, not be the best at piling up stats in the regular season.
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sfvega
Grimlock
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Member is Online
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Post by sfvega on Feb 1, 2023 15:57:06 GMT -5
Eh, it's not really a crazy claim. Manning was amazing in the regular season. You could easily argue him as the best. I think it's a weird crown, but it's not wildly inaccurate. Manning was like Unitas in that quite a few years he was above his peers.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 1, 2023 16:10:32 GMT -5
Dude blew up his family just so he could play one more mediocre year of football with a pretty shit Tampa team
If it's the end, good riddance tbh, never liked Brady, respect what he did because he went out and did it but finally the league can look for someone else to talk about till they're blue in the face, which is kind of already Mahomes...
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Post by cornettesracket on Feb 1, 2023 16:48:53 GMT -5
Well I think Favre’s HOF consideration for the class he went in(I mean the vote) which was mere minutes, will be well beaten by Brady in five years time. Has there ever been as big a lock as he will be ?
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,061
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Post by Mecca on Feb 1, 2023 17:24:42 GMT -5
Well I think Favre’s HOF consideration for the class he went in(I mean the vote) which was mere minutes, will be well beaten by Brady in five years time. Has there ever been as big a lock as he will be ? This is a fun question that this leads to.. Who that is currently playing is a first ballot lock HOFer?
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Post by stoptheclocks on Feb 1, 2023 18:04:18 GMT -5
Well I think Favre’s HOF consideration for the class he went in(I mean the vote) which was mere minutes, will be well beaten by Brady in five years time. Has there ever been as big a lock as he will be ? This is a fun question that this leads to.. Who that is currently playing is a first ballot lock HOFer? If they never played another down... Aaron Rodgers Aaron Donald Patrick Mahomes Zack Martin Von Miller Think you could make a solid case for the Kelce bros, Bobby Wagner and maybe Julio Jones. But the standard for the HOF is incredibly high for the most part, so to be a first ballot guy is really something.
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Feb 1, 2023 18:05:01 GMT -5
finally he's retired ... from retiring! not many last that long in a tough sport like the AM!
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,061
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Post by Mecca on Feb 1, 2023 18:17:01 GMT -5
This is a fun question that this leads to.. Who that is currently playing is a first ballot lock HOFer? If they never played another down... Aaron Rodgers Aaron Donald Patrick Mahomes Zack Martin Von Miller Think you could make a solid case for the Kelce bros, Bobby Wagner and maybe Julio Jones. But the standard for the HOF is incredibly high for the most part, so to be a first ballot guy is really something. Travis Kelce is probably a lock he's got a ton of records already.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Feb 1, 2023 18:20:37 GMT -5
It's surprising how much the abbreviated 40-day retirement last winter ended up doing the most harm to his otherwise bulletproof legacy. The moment Tom Brady posted the video to Instagram this morning, it was met with instant skepticism, because we've heard this before. And I can guarantee that even if he does stay retired for good, the moment a star quarterback on a championship contender gets hurt in the 2023 season, people will start inquiring about whether Tom Brady has the itch to come back. We've seen it all season with Rob Gronkowski and we'll probably see it with Tom Brady until he's donning his gold jacket in Canton. But if this is it, and I hope it is, it's the end of an era. For 22 seasons, Tom Brady has been the standard bearer in the NFL. He's been a part of three generations' worth of quarterback debates and he's won all of them in convincing fashion. He's had three Hall of Fame-caliber careers in a single career: 2000-2008: 3 Super Bowl wins, 26,446 passing yards, 197 touchdowns, 87-24 record in the regular season, 14-3 record in the postseason, 1 MVP, 3 Pro Bowls 2009-2016: 2 Super Bowl wins, 35,136 passing yards, 259 touchdowns, 96-28 record in the regular season, 11-6 record in the postseason, 1 MVP, 8 Pro Bowls 2017-2022: 2 Super Bowl wins, 27,632 passing yards, 193 touchdowns, 68-30 record in the regular season, 10-4 record in the postseason, 1 MVP, 3 Pro Bowls For reference, Pro Football Reference has this thing called the "Hall of Fame monitor," a formula to help people get a quick idea of the strength of a player's candidacy for induction to Canton. The average Hall of Fame quarterback has a score of 109. Tom Brady has a score of 263. He's in a league of his own. He's Michael Jordan. He's Babe Ruth. And we got to see it for two decades. He is the greatest to ever play the game and no one will ever approach his absolute dominance over the league. All Pro is always a better determining factor than pro bowl in my personal view. I actually think he would have come back if the Dolphins had been interested, but they supposedly weren't. He was touring a school for his kids in Miami a few weeks ago, they all live there...I don't think he had any interest in moving across the country for a what if or playing for some crap ass team. I think it's an interesting debate of how he'll be viewed some years down the line. Is he Jordan or Ruth, or is he Bill Russell. I think he's the most accomplished or decorated player of all time, the greatest winner of all time. That doesn't always go hand in hand with being the greatest player of all time. I do think some years down the line Brady will fill the Russell greatest winner of all time role while someone else will get the Jordan mantle. I also wonder if all of his records will stand because of longevity or if the way the game has changed will mean they'll get passed up sooner rather than later. I think in the near to mid future his legacy as the GOAT is secure. Maybe if he'd have retired (or flopped) after leaving the Patriots you'd have had some people make the case that he was a guy who just won. But what he did at the Bucs, and having a HOF career entirely in his 40s is insane and a total victory lap on anyone who came before him. He's the Jordan and the Russell rolled into one. Longer term, who knows. The reality is most of sports accepted GOATs have played in the last 30 years (Jordan, Tiger, Brady, Serena, Djok/Fed/Nadal, Messi/Ronaldo). Future generations will have their own heroes and the debate will re-open and continue forever.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Feb 1, 2023 18:29:05 GMT -5
If they never played another down... Aaron Rodgers Aaron Donald Patrick Mahomes Zack Martin Von Miller Think you could make a solid case for the Kelce bros, Bobby Wagner and maybe Julio Jones. But the standard for the HOF is incredibly high for the most part, so to be a first ballot guy is really something. Travis Kelce is probably a lock he's got a ton of records already. Definitely a lock for the HOF and I'm sure by the time he does retire he will be a first ballot inductee. As of this moment... I'm not sure I'd bet my life on it. Pretty similar stats wise to Shannon Sharpe, who wasn't a first ballot guy. But then also similar to Gronk, who absolutely will be.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,061
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Post by Mecca on Feb 1, 2023 18:44:58 GMT -5
Travis Kelce is probably a lock he's got a ton of records already. Definitely a lock for the HOF and I'm sure by the time he does retire he will be a first ballot inductee. As of this moment... I'm not sure I'd bet my life on it. Pretty similar stats wise to Shannon Sharpe, who wasn't a first ballot guy. But then also similar to Gronk, who absolutely will be. The playoff stats will really help him Players that have more receptions, Yards, TDs than Kelce in the playoffs... Jerry Rice, that's the list.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,061
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Post by Mecca on Feb 1, 2023 18:45:10 GMT -5
Travis Kelce is probably a lock he's got a ton of records already. Definitely a lock for the HOF and I'm sure by the time he does retire he will be a first ballot inductee. As of this moment... I'm not sure I'd bet my life on it. Pretty similar stats wise to Shannon Sharpe, who wasn't a first ballot guy. But then also similar to Gronk, who absolutely will be. The playoff stats will really help him Players that have more receptions, Yards, TDs than Kelce in the playoffs... Jerry Rice, that's the list.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Feb 1, 2023 19:19:42 GMT -5
But Tom, why now? Why not 3 years ago?
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
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Post by tirtefaa on Feb 1, 2023 19:44:56 GMT -5
LOL If we're going based off of pure ability, then I could say Dan Marino has everyone beat. He played in a far tougher league that didn't protect the quarterback the way you see it now. Despite never winning a Super Bowl, he easily led the league historically in yards, passes, completions and attempts. Then the NFL changed and all the sudden everyone and their mother was overtaking Marino. We could also say that Joe Flacco was the equal of Johnny Unitas because they have an equal amount of Super Bowl rings. I guess what I'm saying is it's impossible to say who was truly "the best". The league changes and benefits certain positions. You are also dependent on having a good team around you to help you succeed. And longevity plays a key role too. I mean, as much as I hate to say it, but Brady really fits all those roles. The league has changed, he's led multiple teams to the Super Bowl, including two franchises, and he stayed good well past a point as other quarterbacks have. I have yet to see anyone who is even on his level.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Push R Truth on Feb 1, 2023 19:59:52 GMT -5
Brady sucks and is overrated ya'll are sleeping on GOAT Kirk Cou*USER HAS BEEN BANNED*
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