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Post by Jindrak Mark on Feb 1, 2022 21:13:25 GMT -5
Read the Ringside News bit on Shane. I've always disliked Shane McMahon as a performer, but always felt in real life he seemed like the most "level-headed" of the family. If the report is true, dude is turning toxic, and has bought into his own hype. And I know I'm reading too much into this next bit, but him arriving with Nick Khan raised an eyebrow from me. (mayhaps he has a new daddy he's trying to impress?)Meltzer has gone into it before but Shane is notorious for wildly bad creative ideas and trying to push himself. Meltzer said Shane wanted to go over Taker at Mania in Shane’s return match but Taker squashed that idea. That hell in a cell is possibly my least favorite match of all time. The only thing that could have made it worse is Shane winning.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 1, 2022 21:14:25 GMT -5
Unless Shane has found some miraculous way to not immediately explode after three seconds of ring work, it is literally impossible for him to look good in a match these days lmfao Kidd and HHH being gone and people like Shane sticking their hands into shit rally showed, these Rumbles were a disaster. I think the women’s Rumble was very good, certainly no drop off from recent years. The men’s was lacking a bit, though, in the middle portion especially. The men also had an insulting and dull as dogshit ending that puts it just below 2015 for me as a complete and total trainwreck of a finish, so I rank it a bit higher than a bit in terms of what was lacking, but I digress The women's match was fun in some spots, but very sloppy, poorly paced, and Ronda looked awful so the end really put a damper on things. Wasn't AWFUL but it was noticeably starved for and putting over current women, which is reflective in the fact Ronda's challenging Charlotte and Becky's feuding with Lita now.
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Post by eJm on Feb 1, 2022 21:15:49 GMT -5
Meltzer has gone into it before but Shane is notorious for wildly bad creative ideas and trying to push himself. Meltzer said Shane wanted to go over Taker at Mania in Shane’s return match but Taker squashed that idea. That hell in a cell is possibly my least favorite match of all time. The only thing that could have made it worse is Shane winning. The defining memory of that HIAC match was that I was watching the show in a bar with my brother and it was pretty damn crowded. When Shane locked in a pretty terrible head-scissors on ‘Taker, I turned to my left and saw a guy frowning in such a way it almost looked like his mouth was forming an O shape and burst out laughing. He turned back to me with that face and I just went to him “Yeah, that’s the right reaction”.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 1, 2022 21:16:02 GMT -5
I think the women’s Rumble was very good, certainly no drop off from recent years. The men’s was lacking a bit, though, in the middle portion especially. The men also had an insulting and dull as dogshit ending that puts it just below 2015 for me as a complete and total trainwreck of a finish, so I rank it a bit higher than a bit in terms of what was lacking, but I digress The women's match was fun in some spots, but very sloppy, poorly paced, and Ronda looked awful so the end really put a damper on things. Wasn't AWFUL but it was noticeably starved for and putting over current women, which is reflective in the fact Ronda's challenging Charlotte and Becky's feuding with Lita now. Ronda, Charlotte and Becky are all current women. And Rhea and Bianca had good runs as well, as did Nikki ASH. And I think the men’s ending was so flat because they had to rush it to finish by 12 for some reason.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Feb 1, 2022 21:17:15 GMT -5
Read the Ringside News bit on Shane. I've always disliked Shane McMahon as a performer, but always felt in real life he seemed like the most "level-headed" of the family. If the report is true, dude is turning toxic, and has bought into his own hype. And I know I'm reading too much into this next bit, but him arriving with Nick Khan raised an eyebrow from me. (mayhaps he has a new daddy he's trying to impress?)Meltzer has gone into it before but Shane is notorious for wildly bad creative ideas and trying to push himself. Meltzer said Shane wanted to go over Taker at Mania in Shane’s return match but Taker squashed that idea. To be fair to Shane, him winning that Hell in a Cell match was actually what should have happened, considering both the story going into the match, and especially what happened the night after with Shane ending up in charge anyway, but without us finding out what dirt Shane had on Vince in that mysterious lock box. But yes, Shane becoming the second person in history to defeat The Undertaker at Mania, inside Hell in a Cell no less, is pretty preposterous otherwise.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 1, 2022 21:18:31 GMT -5
The men also had an insulting and dull as dogshit ending that puts it just below 2015 for me as a complete and total trainwreck of a finish, so I rank it a bit higher than a bit in terms of what was lacking, but I digress The women's match was fun in some spots, but very sloppy, poorly paced, and Ronda looked awful so the end really put a damper on things. Wasn't AWFUL but it was noticeably starved for and putting over current women, which is reflective in the fact Ronda's challenging Charlotte and Becky's feuding with Lita now. Ronda, Charlotte and Becky are all current women. And Rhea and Bianca had good runs as well. I think the men’s ending was so flat because they had to rush it to finish by 12 for some reason. Nah it was more flat because it was Brock again and the final guys in it were pretty flat, and everyone saw what was coming. The rush only made the problems worse. Ronda Rousey is not a "current woman", she hasn't wrestled for like four years or even been on the program, so idk how you can even propose that. Otherwise I meant like the future, the now, non-Horsewomen. Rhea got a good showing but it's about what her future trajectory is and no one seems to know. Bianca has stalled out and is feuding with Zelina and Carmella for some reason... their womens division is a wreck imo, but for who is booking it? Unsurprising.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 1, 2022 21:28:17 GMT -5
Ronda, Charlotte and Becky are all current women. And Rhea and Bianca had good runs as well. I think the men’s ending was so flat because they had to rush it to finish by 12 for some reason. Nah it was more flat because it was Brock again and the final guys in it were pretty flat, and everyone saw what was coming. The rush only made the problems worse. Ronda Rousey is not a "current woman", she hasn't wrestled for like four years or even been on the program, so idk how you can even propose that. Otherwise I meant like the future, the now, non-Horsewomen. Rhea got a good showing but it's about what her future trajectory is and no one seems to know. Bianca has stalled out and is feuding with Zelina and Carmella for some reason... their womens division is a wreck imo, but for who is booking it? Unsurprising. Ronda was gone for less than 3 years, specifically to have a baby. And is now back for at least 15 months. And the women’s division is pretty stacked right now and looking up. Especially with Asuka and Bayley returning soon. Not even sure how they’ll get all of the women in feature matches for Mania with all the talent.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 1, 2022 21:32:45 GMT -5
Nah it was more flat because it was Brock again and the final guys in it were pretty flat, and everyone saw what was coming. The rush only made the problems worse. Ronda Rousey is not a "current woman", she hasn't wrestled for like four years or even been on the program, so idk how you can even propose that. Otherwise I meant like the future, the now, non-Horsewomen. Rhea got a good showing but it's about what her future trajectory is and no one seems to know. Bianca has stalled out and is feuding with Zelina and Carmella for some reason... their womens division is a wreck imo, but for who is booking it? Unsurprising. Ronda was gone for less than 3 years, specifically to have a baby. And is now back for at least 15 months. And the women’s division is pretty stacked right now and looking up. Especially with Asuka and Bayley returning soon. Not even sure how they’ll get all of the women in feature matches for Mania with all the talent. God bless your exuberant optimism for this product, but the way I see it, the women's division is a complete and utter f***ing disaster, because it's currently run by people who don't give a single damn about the talent outside of a select few, and some of those few are extremely stale or getting grating, Charlotte as champion is death TV I can't bother with, and well we have plenty of people here who are tired of OP Becky. The rosters are barren wastelands outside of the main card, and I do not see it improving, and I'm far from the only one to harshly criticize it here. You do you though, if it entertains you great, but to me there are serious problems that the Rumble and the fallout only highlighted.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 22:28:42 GMT -5
Read the Ringside News bit on Shane. I've always disliked Shane McMahon as a performer, but always felt in real life he seemed like the most "level-headed" of the family. If the report is true, dude is turning toxic, and has bought into his own hype. And I know I'm reading too much into this next bit, but him arriving with Nick Khan raised an eyebrow from me. (mayhaps he has a new daddy he's trying to impress?)Meltzer has gone into it before but Shane is notorious for wildly bad creative ideas and trying to push himself. Meltzer said Shane wanted to go over Taker at Mania in Shane’s return match but Taker squashed that idea. I remember reading before that Shane has always been a huge fan of Russo's style of booking. I hope he never takes control creatively. I mean Raw Underground was his idea, wasn't it?
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 1, 2022 22:41:59 GMT -5
Ronda was gone for less than 3 years, specifically to have a baby. And is now back for at least 15 months. And the women’s division is pretty stacked right now and looking up. Especially with Asuka and Bayley returning soon. Not even sure how they’ll get all of the women in feature matches for Mania with all the talent. God bless your exuberant optimism for this product, but the way I see it, the women's division is a complete and utter f***ing disaster, because it's currently run by people who don't give a single damn about the talent outside of a select few, and some of those few are extremely stale or getting grating, Charlotte as champion is death TV I can't bother with, and well we have plenty of people here who are tired of OP Becky. The rosters are barren wastelands outside of the main card, and I do not see it improving, and I'm far from the only one to harshly criticize it here. You do you though, if it entertains you great, but to me there are serious problems that the Rumble and the fallout only highlighted. I can agree that the booking is not always the best, but the talent is absolutely top flight with Rousey back and Bayley and Asuka’s returns imminent. The number of storylines and quality of the matches are still very high as well (when given the time). Charlotte and Becky as champs. Rousey and Bianca as challengers. Main event stars like Sasha, Asuka and Bayley. Top prospects like Rhea, Doudrop, Liv and Lacey when she comes back. Over stars like Alexa and Naomi. Solid vets like Nattie, Shayna, Nikki, Zelina, Carmella.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 1, 2022 22:55:48 GMT -5
God bless your exuberant optimism for this product, but the way I see it, the women's division is a complete and utter f***ing disaster, because it's currently run by people who don't give a single damn about the talent outside of a select few, and some of those few are extremely stale or getting grating, Charlotte as champion is death TV I can't bother with, and well we have plenty of people here who are tired of OP Becky. The rosters are barren wastelands outside of the main card, and I do not see it improving, and I'm far from the only one to harshly criticize it here. You do you though, if it entertains you great, but to me there are serious problems that the Rumble and the fallout only highlighted. I can agree that the booking is not always the best, but the talent is absolutely top flight with Rousey back and Bayley and Asuka’s returns imminent. The number of storylines and quality of the matches are still very high as well (when given the time). Charlotte and Becky as champs. Rousey and Bianca as challengers. Main event stars like Sasha, Asuka and Bayley. Top prospects like Rhea, Doudrop and Lacey when she comes back. Over stars like Alexa and Naomi. Solid vets like Nattie, Shayna, Nikki, Zelina, Carmella. Charlotte has regressed a lot in ring, Becky I'll give you, Bianca I'll give you, Sasha I will give you when she's around (Her Rumble appearance didn't instill confidence), Baylay and Asuka are dearly missed and desperately needed, but Bayley's still out for who knows how long and Asuka's seemingly been in an endless loop, hope it ends soon but I know how Asuka's main roster booking is so... not exactly gonna be hopeful there either Doudrop's been booked into the ground already and is hardly a top prospect on the card and never really has been, Rhea needs a direction and is still constantly being one upped by the likes of Charlotte even in the Rumble, Lacey is very hit or miss (Her Charlotte matches were a disaster), it remains to be seen how Alexa fairs when she comes back, over absolutely but in ring I have no idea. Naomi is a weird case, over yes, but some of her matches can be hit or miss, and the Sonya feud is absolutely one of the worst things I've ever had to sit through as a fan, right payoff, about five months too much of it. The other five women get trash storylines or nothing happening, Carmella and Zelina dont even have legitimate tag rivals on EITHER COMPANY show, and haven't since Nikki and Rhea split. Shayna has been nothing but "Lose via rollup" for like a year and a half, and that's no exaggeration. I don't think I need to go into detail about Nikki ASH, there's an almost 20 page thread I started highlighting that disaster. Then we get to Ronda, who you are absolutely touting as a fact that her being there improves the women and their in ring ability. Ronda from 3 years ago might not be the Ronda now. Her promo skills are still god awful, and her Rumble showing was awful, and I'm not saying that myself, I looked everywhere online and found the same reactions. They better absolutely f***ing pray it's a mountain of rust she can shake off, because it was embarrassing, and the Rumble masked it being the clusterf*** it is. This is your Mania attraction, and that's gonna be an outright exposure if she's lost it. She's over though, granted, I'm not stupid and I get why they'd go for this, but it doesn't really signal to me that they're confident in the women they have now, or the ones who should have been called up from NXT ages ago. That's how I see it. We're not going to agree on this obviously, but to me the "Women's Revolution/Evolution" has gotten more hypocritical by the month, and the over-reliance on the Horsewomen is the atrocious men's booking just seeping into the women's side, and it's only gotten worse. Hopefully it improves, but I'm not holding my breath. Obviously I will give praise for good ring work and matches though, which I've seen lately (Bianca/Zelina, Naomi/Sonya and Rhea/Nikki) and when I don't (That eight woman disaster, Bianca/Carmella, whatever the hell Dana/Tamina is supposed to be)
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Feb 2, 2022 1:37:03 GMT -5
Oh Shane. Why wasn't he so keen back when he was younger and had a relevant character, could have actually been a good wrestler. But no, he waits until his 50s to wrestle more despite no longer having the conditioning to not to be worn out by his own entrance.
He's gone into Simpsons like territory where I have to separate classic from later Shane, and classic is an ever smaller percentage of his career. (Of course he was never that good as a direct comparison but then few are)
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Feb 2, 2022 1:59:31 GMT -5
I don't care what anyone says... this MFer Shane is worse than Stephanie. Stephanie in a segment or match when she gets humiliated? She throws a fit, goes over the top and sells the hell out of it. Look at the Raw after Survivor Series 2001, when she lost the match involving Triple H and Jericho on Raw, getting thrown into mud by Vickie, her fit at Survivor Series 2014, and begging Ronda not to put her in the armbar. Shane on the other hand? He does none of that, and gets to look like a good loser.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Feb 2, 2022 5:09:09 GMT -5
I don't care what anyone says... this MFer Shane is worse than Stephanie. I thought Stephanie being the better McMahon was a more common view now? Like all of them, she does have her moments, for sure, but usually when she gets involved in a physical storyline, its because she wants to put over someone in the long run. She also mostly concentrates on behind the scenes creative stuff, and the few times we know she had a hands on role on the TV (WWE TV 2000-1, The Smackdown Six era - Heymans era actually came later on when Brock was the main figure on the show, RAW in 2005) were all periods of high acclaim and solid storytelling and in ring match making. Plus you can only hear so many stories of folk who worked on creative going "Actually, Stephanie's a great boss, though she gets a bit stressed on TV days" and also "Shane will straight up shit stir behind your back" before thinking this might be a fairly accurate picture. Yeah, I'd be far happier if she were the McMahon in ascendancy over Shane McMahon or Brother Love McMahon...
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Post by eJm on Feb 2, 2022 7:12:55 GMT -5
Eh, I think saying Steph is the better McMahon is sort of like saying being punched in the face 20 times in a row is better than being kicked in the groin 20 times in a row. They’re both spoilt rich kids with entitlement issues who can’t learn when to put over someone but one of them just happens to be a “less bad” spoilt rich kid with entitlement issues.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 2, 2022 7:47:57 GMT -5
Eh, I think saying Steph is the better McMahon is sort of like saying being punched in the face 20 times in a row is better than being kicked in the groin 20 times in a row. They’re both spoilt rich kids with entitlement issues who can’t learn when to put over someone but one of them just happens to be a “less bad” spoilt rich kid with entitlement issues. I don’t know, there’s near-universal praise for real-life Stephanie from former workers (with maybe a stray story here and there). She’s described as much more down to earth than you’d expect from a “rich kid.” And she’s had no problem showing her ass (figuratively) in storyline.
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Post by eJm on Feb 2, 2022 7:51:14 GMT -5
Eh, I think saying Steph is the better McMahon is sort of like saying being punched in the face 20 times in a row is better than being kicked in the groin 20 times in a row. They’re both spoilt rich kids with entitlement issues who can’t learn when to put over someone but one of them just happens to be a “less bad” spoilt rich kid with entitlement issues. I don’t know, there’s near-universal praise for real-life Stephanie from former workers (with maybe a stray story here and there). She seems much more down to earth than you’d expect from a “rich kid.” And she has no problem showing her ass (figuratively) in storyline. She has way more of a problem showing her ass than her Dad, like, by a billion degrees so I’m not 100% sure I buy that. Like, one of the long running issues was that you could count on one hand the amount of times she got some kind of comeuppance.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 2, 2022 7:59:04 GMT -5
I don’t know, there’s near-universal praise for real-life Stephanie from former workers (with maybe a stray story here and there). She seems much more down to earth than you’d expect from a “rich kid.” And she has no problem showing her ass (figuratively) in storyline. She has way more of a problem showing her ass than her Dad, like, by a billion degrees so I’m not 100% sure I buy that. Like, one of the long running issues was that you could count on one hand the amount of times she got some kind of comeuppance. 1- I recall a ton of times where she bumped in matches, lost matches or got embarrassed on TV. 2- She’s not been on creative for a long long time and there’ve not been any stories from past workers of her refusing to get comeuppance on TV (Like how we’ve heard plenty of stories of HHH) so I’m hesitant to say any perceived lack of comeuppance is due to her. And again there’s been little to no stories of her being a problem backstage with co-workers, and in fact we usually hear the opposite.
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Post by eJm on Feb 2, 2022 8:12:44 GMT -5
She has way more of a problem showing her ass than her Dad, like, by a billion degrees so I’m not 100% sure I buy that. Like, one of the long running issues was that you could count on one hand the amount of times she got some kind of comeuppance. 1- I recall a ton of times where she bumped in matches, lost matches or got embarrassed on TV. 2- She’s not been on creative for a long long time and there’ve not been any stories from past workers of her refusing to get comeuppance on TV (Like how we’ve heard plenty of stories of HHH) so I’m hesitant to say any perceived lack of comeuppance is due to her. And again there’s been little to no stories of her being a problem backstage with co-workers, and in fact we usually hear the opposite. I would absolutely say it wasn’t a tonne. Like, nowhere near. There were way too many weeks where she got one over people and it factually lead to ratings dropping like a rock because of it. I really understand the point we are making but let’s not rewrite history here. I will concede the lack of that is way more to do with Vince booking her than her actually be on creative, though.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Feb 2, 2022 8:28:47 GMT -5
Eh, I think saying Steph is the better McMahon is sort of like saying being punched in the face 20 times in a row is better than being kicked in the groin 20 times in a row. They’re both spoilt rich kids with entitlement issues who can’t learn when to put over someone but one of them just happens to be a “less bad” spoilt rich kid with entitlement issues. Surely the 20 punches in the face is Shane, in every match since 2009 at least? Anyhow we were comparing McMahons to each other. Context!
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