Does AEW have a champion problem?

[Legion]

It occured to me today, granted while a little drunk, that AEW seems to have a title problem.

To me, both the World Title and the TNT title are a bit lost in the shuffle.

Page had a lot of time built in to his victory story, but then has kinda taken a back seat, promotion wise, to the new name value talents. His feud with Archer was the eptiome of filler and even this new feud with Cole seems to be taking a back seat to at least three other stories with bigger name value talent.

Similarly, Sammy as TNT champion has not really had a good story. He had a random half cocked feud with Miro, then a great match with Cody, then back to random challenge matches.

I totally understand that AEW is trying to build new stars while also utilising established names to build their viewership and brand, but I do feel like the titles are being lost/devalued by being second fiddled the way they are.

Not a knock on AEW, like I say, I think I understand why they are doing it, just not sure it's landing that well, for me at least.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

The TNT Title is an open challenge title, and it always has been. The feuds over the belt don't really last very long, and usually are for when the belt changes hands, so really I can't say it's not doing its job fine

Page has been a fine world champion, and that Texas Deathmatch drew viewers, so I can't say it's taken a back seat. The segment this week where he took Kyle out and cut that great promo on Cole to me made that feud feel much more must see. I don't think Hangman's lost anything.

[Lizuka #BLM]

I think the World and Women's titles suffer from everything being planned out so far in advance that it feels like almost everything with them is just useless filler while the TNT and Tag titles have the opposite problem of feeling so lacking in any sort of plan or even actual purpose that they basically just drift around aimlessly. Then there's the baffling decision to sell the TBS title as a workhorse belt while putting it on someone who's completely terrible in the ring.

It also still kind of endlessly bugs me that they pay lipservice to the idea that the belts are all equal but every single time the World one takes top priority and they consistently keep giving people tag title reigns that are only there to build them up for singles (Scorpio, Hangman and Kenny, pretty clearly what's going on with Jungle Boy). If you're going to act like the tag titles are equal then actually act like it.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Feb 25, 2022 19:40:58 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

I think the World and Women's titles suffer from everything being planned out so far in advance that it feels like almost everything with them is just useless filler while the TNT and Tag titles have the opposite problem of feeling so lacking in any sort of plan or even actual purpose that they basically just drift around aimlessly. Then there's the baffling decision to sell the TBS title as a workhorse belt while putting it on someone who's completely terrible in the ring.

It also still kind of endlessly bugs me that they pay lipservice to the idea that the belts are all equal but every single time the World one takes top priority. If you're going to act like the tag titles are equal then actually act like it.

The world title is the world title, it's always top billing, that's just how wrestling is? Even if the tag belt doesn't main event they're still put in some very strong matches, though they frequently have main evented Rampage this year, and got Match of the Year in the Observers with Lucha Bros/Young Bucks over other big matches too.

I also have to disagree that Jade is terrible. She's green but she does the job fine, and her being undefeated does paint the picture that she's a workhorse constantly asking for competition as she is as well. And I know you get mad at me when I say this, but she is over with the crowds in what she's doing, that's not to say you can't think she's terrible, but to me it's not devaluing the TBS title when the person you put it on is making the crowds give a shit, and moving the needle in the ratings.

I think the belts have all been given a pretty even kilter of importance. I dont look at any of the belts really and think they're inferior to the other, mainly because AEW does a good job at constantly featuring and showcasing them over a number of shows. 

[Kalmia]

I think Hangman's title run has been very, very slow getting out of the gates. Even though the Danielson matches were both excellent, there was no real story for Hangman to get his teeth into. I feel that AEW (and maybe Hangman himself) struggled to find where his character should be after he'd conquered his anxieties and won the belt.

The last couple of weeks with Adam Cole have righted that a little, I think, and Hangman seems a more important character again. It's just that unfortunately for Hangman and Cole, the MJF/Punk and Danielson/Mox angles are absolute fire and the former is one of the best things in wrestling in years.

AEW does seem to have an issue sometimes where the entire reason for a title match happening is because it's a title match. Omega/Hangman was a title match, but it had tons of story behind it. Baker/Rosa will be a title match, but it has tons of story behind it, too. Hangman/Archer didn't, neither have most of Baker's defenses, and it does the world champ a disservice, IMO.

[Legion]

Feb 25, 2022 19:40:21 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

The TNT Title is an open challenge title, and it always has been. The feuds over the belt don't really last very long, and usually are for when the belt changes hands, so really I can't say it's not doing its job fine

Page has been a fine world champion, and that Texas Deathmatch drew viewers, so I can't say it's taken a back seat. The segment this week where he took Kyle out and cut that great promo on Cole to me made that feud feel much more must see. I don't think Hangman's lost anything.

Im not in anyway saying Page isnt a good World Champ, I'm just saying they arent booking his title run as if it matters. Three stories are getting bigger billing. It feels like they are doing him a disservice the way they are programming him.

Sammy is the same. He's an after thought. No story, no point. Just 'I have the title!'

It feels like AEW is great at booking a face challenger, but not great at booking that same character as a champion

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Feb 25, 2022 19:56:00 GMT -5 Legion said:

Feb 25, 2022 19:40:21 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

The TNT Title is an open challenge title, and it always has been. The feuds over the belt don't really last very long, and usually are for when the belt changes hands, so really I can't say it's not doing its job fine

Page has been a fine world champion, and that Texas Deathmatch drew viewers, so I can't say it's taken a back seat. The segment this week where he took Kyle out and cut that great promo on Cole to me made that feud feel much more must see. I don't think Hangman's lost anything.

Im not in anyway saying Page isnt a good World Champ, I'm just saying they arent booking his title run as if it matters. Three stories are getting bigger billing. It feels like they are doing him a disservice the way they are programming him.

Sammy is the same. He's an after thought. No story, no point. Just 'I have the title!'

It feels like AEW is great at booking a face challenger, but not great at booking that same character as a champion

Again that's just how the TNT belt is, when you have it you become the face of the brand in a sense, and you take on all comers. Even in the Inner Circle meeting he said he needed to focus on defending the title, he's had to defend it against Darby recently, and now Andrade coming up tonight, he's been busy.

Hangman's really only just begun as a champion, and I think it's really gonna rev up past Revolution too. The whole Elite/Undisputed thing feels like it's going to keep growing and escalating and Hangman's square in the center.

[holyshida]

Hangman Page, Sammy and Jurassic Express are fine as champions.

Britt Baker Reign has dragged on a bit but Rosa winning the title should reset the division. As for Jade, she's not terrible but at the same time looking at the roster outside Julia Hart and Skye Blue there's nobody worse than her, and you can't put a title on someone that's the 3rd worst wrestler in the division and needs to be carried by nearly every opponent she's in the ring with, they should've waited at least 12 months

[Lizuka #BLM]

Feb 25, 2022 19:51:43 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

The world title is the world title, it's always top billing, that's just how wrestling is?

Not even bothering with the rest of your post because I'm sick of having that particular argument, but my response to that would be that if you can't come up with a good reason to do something other than, "But it's tradition!" then you need to stop doing it. Especially when you pay lip service to the idea that you aren't going to do it.

As for Hangman's title reign, I think it is suffering from a mix of factors. The Bryan storyline was way the hell more interesting than either of the feuds that's come after it (and for that matter I'd argue vastly more interesting than the Kenny feud was) and Lance Archer was a very obvious speedbump that was cluttered by a messy Lambert dynamic that didn't really make any sense or have any particular reason to be there. Then there's Cole which I don't think is really landing for me 1), because I am well and truly sick of everything to do with Elite drama at this point, and 2), because I just don't find Cole very interesting. And on top of all of that they've been ramping up the talk of MJF being champion to the point it's pretty obvious that one way or another - be it Hangman losing it to him directly, something to do with Punk, or finally getting to a damn point with Wardlow - that that's where the belt's going and it's just like... Can we get some damn mobility on this belt already instead of every single thing with it having to be a bare minimum six month run in service of some broader narrative years down the line? Not saying to have 11 champions in a year like it's 1999 WCW or something but holy shit it would not kill them to have a little spontaneity with this belt for once.

[Fade is a CodyCryBaby]

Yea, I don’t think that’s an outrageous accusation at all. Sammy as a face is boring outside of the ring and his reign pales in comparison to every TNT title reign before. With Hangman, while slightly agreeing, I think the smart thing to do is stay the course. It helps his title reign’s match quality is choice. But yeah, everything else (MJF/Punk, Face of The Revolution, Britt/Rosa) is what’s leaning me towards ordering the PPv. I do think Tony fumbled a tad with Cole but the match could still be cool.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

I think Britt has just ran her course as champion. Ideally I'd have had Rosa win at Full Gear but it is what it is. I've really liked Page's reign so far. Great matches and his Cole feud is starting to heat up. I don't think it's a problem that Punk/MJF has more juice to it. That's more a testament to them than a dig at Page. Omega's Christian match definitely took a back seat to Punk and rightfully so. He's going to get to bigger matches in the next few months and he'll be fine.

[Dave the Dave]

I agree. I’ve felt Hangman is getting put on the back burner a bit. Build with Cole has been pretty okay, hopefully this week they ramp it up even more.

Britt vs Rosa barely feels special. It should feel bigger. In the promo what did Britt even say? “you’re song just says you’re name. You’re just a song. Not a star.” Like, f*** that’s it? You’re long reign is probably ending and that’s all we’ve got here?

I dunno. All the stuff with Punk/Bryan/MJF/Mox/Jericho is great, but I’d love Hangman to be a little more front and center.

[TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out]

Hangman's title reign has come across like a disorganized mess because it kinda is. First it got delayed by 2 and a half months because of his paternity leave and then his first major fued got changed 2 weeks beforehand because of Mox taking care of himself. Then, Snake Roberts ruined my wedding got sick, so they had to use Dan Lambert as a proxy for Lance Archer which is such a downgrade. Now, he's secondary in his own fued to the Elite/Bullet Club shenanigans right as it seems like there's a possible NJPW relationship finally opening.

[petef3]

As a larger point: it would improve things a lot if bookers would realize that the babyface triumphantly, finally getting the big title win is not the *end* of the story--it's the *middle* of the story. Too many instances of a dramatic babyface victory followed immediately by, "Okay...now what?" It's happened with Page to some degree, partially due to bad luck but not entirely.

Compare and contrast to an instance where this was actually done well. Like, say, Bret Hart at WrestleMania X. He ended the long reign of Yokozuna, but there was that black cloud hanging over that win that everyone knew had to get resolved.

I know TK is against them on principle, but some quick title turnarounds wouldn't hurt, either. Not as a habit, but just to rattle the cage and let us know that the first 2 or 3 title defenses of any given reign aren't foregone conclusions.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Feb 25, 2022 23:13:30 GMT -5 petef3 said:

As a larger point: it would improve things a lot if bookers would realize that the babyface triumphantly, finally getting the big title win is not the *end* of the story--it's the *middle* of the story. Too many instances of a dramatic babyface victory followed immediately by, "Okay...now what?" It's happened with Page to some degree, partially due to bad luck but not entirely.

Compare and contrast to an instance where this was actually done well. Like, say, Bret Hart at WrestleMania X. He ended the long reign of Yokozuna, but there was that black cloud hanging over that win that everyone knew had to get resolved.

I know TK is against them on principle, but some quick title turnarounds wouldn't hurt, either. Not as a habit, but just to rattle the cage and let us know that the first 2 or 3 title defenses of any given reign aren't foregone conclusions.

Khan said that's going to happen, actually. He admits he painstakingly planned out the first four world title reigns, after Hangman's ends, he said things will be much more flexible.

[petef3]

Feb 25, 2022 23:39:49 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Feb 25, 2022 23:13:30 GMT -5 petef3 said:

As a larger point: it would improve things a lot if bookers would realize that the babyface triumphantly, finally getting the big title win is not the *end* of the story--it's the *middle* of the story. Too many instances of a dramatic babyface victory followed immediately by, "Okay...now what?" It's happened with Page to some degree, partially due to bad luck but not entirely.

Compare and contrast to an instance where this was actually done well. Like, say, Bret Hart at WrestleMania X. He ended the long reign of Yokozuna, but there was that black cloud hanging over that win that everyone knew had to get resolved.

I know TK is against them on principle, but some quick title turnarounds wouldn't hurt, either. Not as a habit, but just to rattle the cage and let us know that the first 2 or 3 title defenses of any given reign aren't foregone conclusions.

Khan said that's going to happen, actually. He admits he painstakingly planned out the first four world title reigns, after Hangman's ends, he said things will be much more flexible.

There's nothing stopping him from doing a quick turnaround with any of the other belts. The only instance of that so far has been the recent Cody-Guevara stuff.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Feb 25, 2022 23:41:04 GMT -5 petef3 said:

Feb 25, 2022 23:39:49 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Khan said that's going to happen, actually. He admits he painstakingly planned out the first four world title reigns, after Hangman's ends, he said things will be much more flexible.

There's nothing stopping him from doing a quick turnaround with any of the other belts. The only instance of that so far has been the recent Cody-Guevara stuff.

TNT titles have had quicker turnarounds lately, Miro held his a bit, Sammy held his a bit, then the Cody and Guevara turnaround as mentioned, so I dont think that applies. I do think the women could be served with it though after Baker's reign ends, not sure how long Jade's reign plans to go

The Tag Belts also feel like they dont overstay their welcome on champs lately. It's mainly been the world title (And the TBS title because it literally just happened) that has been without a shorter reign so far.

[Dub H]

The only thing about Hangmans title reign that got lost in the shuffle was the Archer feud and even that popped great viewers.

He is in the mikddle of a hot angle right now

Maybe its not as hot nas MJF and Punk , but well, that feud has been amazing

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Feb 25, 2022 23:53:23 GMT -5 Dub H said:

The only thing about Hangmans title reign that got lost in the shuffle was the Archer feud and even that popped great viewers.

He is in the mikddle of a hot angle right now

Maybe its not as hot nas MJF and Punk , but well, that feud has been amazing

I feel like people are really selling Hangman's title reign so far. Archer/Hangman did great ratings and was a crazy match, the Danielson matches were damn great, an hour long draw and then a damn near 40 minute classic on top of that, and now he's starting a hot angle with Cole where it clearly is building to something greater, I don't see how he's backseating when he was the front and center point to an entire potential war feud this week.

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

Feb 25, 2022 20:02:18 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

Feb 25, 2022 19:51:43 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

The world title is the world title, it's always top billing, that's just how wrestling is?

Not even bothering with the rest of your post because I'm sick of having that particular argument, but my response to that would be that if you can't come up with a good reason to do something other than, "But it's tradition!" then you need to stop doing it. Especially when you pay lip service to the idea that you aren't going to do it.

As for Hangman's title reign, I think it is suffering from a mix of factors. The Bryan storyline was way the hell more interesting than either of the feuds that's come after it (and for that matter I'd argue vastly more interesting than the Kenny feud was) and Lance Archer was a very obvious speedbump that was cluttered by a messy Lambert dynamic that didn't really make any sense or have any particular reason to be there. Then there's Cole which I don't think is really landing for me 1), because I am well and truly sick of everything to do with Elite drama at this point, and 2), because I just don't find Cole very interesting. And on top of all of that they've been ramping up the talk of MJF being champion to the point it's pretty obvious that one way or another - be it Hangman losing it to him directly, something to do with Punk, or finally getting to a damn point with Wardlow - that that's where the belt's going and it's just like... Can we get some damn mobility on this belt already instead of every single thing with it having to be a bare minimum six month run in service of some broader narrative years down the line? Not saying to have 11 champions in a year like it's 1999 WCW or something but holy shit it would not kill them to have a little spontaneity with this belt for once.

Yeah, but to me six month reigns *are* spontaneous. 😛

Hangman is a strong and well booked champion, but he’s a TV baby compared to the WWE signees and MJF is on a roll. The hot talent like Max and Punk need to have their Page irons struck. Whenever Page loses is up to Tony but I’d give him until at least this summer to build up the next champ (and I love Cole, but he doesn’t need the belt quite yet.)