When this guy joined the nWo they went to hell?

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

As someone who got into wrestling after the nWo angle had mostly concluded, I can look back at the decision to expand the nWo to the undercard and understand why they did it, especially seeing that they were planning on spinning the nWo off into a separate show, which would necessitate members in all spots of the card. Plus, having fall guys meant that the nWo could take losses when need be while keeping the A-team members protected.

That said, I will echo Dusty Rhodes as an inclusion that made no sense from any standpoint. He didn't do anything physical, nor did he look like he could do much physically (compared to Rick Rude, who was used in a similar role, but looked more than capable of getting involved). And he was very clearly a shock value addition that didn't make any sense whatsoever.

Even the usual bottom feeder names like Vincent and Wallstreet were good to be used as cannon fodder or to add numbers to group beatdowns. Dusty couldn't even do that.

[HMARK Center]

I admittedly didn't start consistently watching that era of wrestling until 1998, so I missed out on the early days and when things started to shift, but looking back I still think a large-scale nWo could've worked fine if they had really kept it to wrestlers that people would mostly associate with WWF, to keep up the "invasion" appearances. I know they eventually had to scale that back a bit due to the WWF lawsuit, but still, people were excited at the idea of WWF vs. WCW and Hogan, Nash, Hall, and guys like Savage definitely represented WWF in the public's mind more than WCW.

Makes me wonder how things might've been different if Davey Boy had made the jump earlier; I believe he was supposed to be the fourth guy in, but when he opted last minute to re-sign with the WWF Bischoff changed course and had Giant join at the next show, instead. Keep Bulldog in that spot, and you maintain the "they're coming from New York!" aura that was still present when DiBiase, Syxx, and some of the others joined.

It would also have been a great way to address one of the big complaints a lot of WCW fans had over Hogan's signing, how it seemed like WCW suddenly got flooded with "Hogan's buddies" circa 1994-1995; that could be turned into Hogan using them as sleeper agents who'd reveal their true colors when he needed them to.

Problem was, they really stopped caring about the logic behind most of it after awhile. Like, yeah, they basically used Elizabeth to lure Savage over, but he went from staunchly against them and siding with Sting one week to fully decked out in nWo gear the next, no real build. They had guys like Norton join, and while I think Norton's awesome he also had no WWF history and there was seemingly no motivation for him to join, just "Bischoff said with us or against us, so, uh, with, I guess".

But keep the stable mostly to wrestlers either directly jumping ship from WWF or who were on the WCW roster but had very clear WWF roots or identification in the public's eye, and I think it could've still been a larger "army" of a group instead of just having to keep it to Hall/Nash/Hogan and a manager like DiBiase or Bischoff. Granted, I'm sure some people have differing views on just *how* WWF affiliated some of WCW's midcard was, given that guys like Bubba/Boss Man and Wallstreet/IRS had plenty of history in Crockett/WCW, as well, but that would just add to the intrigue and mystery of who might be a secret member.

[Celexa Bliss]

Hogan.

Biggest heel turn in all of wrestling, but also the most costly. It killed Hall and Nash as headliners in WCW, because they became Hogan lackeys. The only person who truly benefitted was Hogan, because the group became all about him, whereas before, it was this badass invading force.

[Pure Fusion Jesse Walsh]

I know people tend to point to Buff Bagwell in discussions like this, but I don’t think it was necessarily a bad idea to have a younger, mid-card guy using the group as a stepping stone for his career.

[Deleted]

I get they were supposed to be their own COMPANY. So filling them with midcarders made sense even if made the whole group look like a bunch of melvins. Plus it was badass when Sting would take out like eight guys. When they started adding race car drivers and hosts from Dinner and Movie thats when it got really lame.

[sportatorium]

Giant joining made some sense since he was a perceived (storyline) threat. A keep the enemy close to you move & he was considered young & naive on TV at that point. Marcus (soon to be Buff) Bagwell was the first random- why him moment for me. His addition seemed to be the catalyst of "if we can't think of anything else for this guy, just add him to the NWO" moves that followed.

[cassonova]

I would actually argue that the removal of members is when the NWO jumped the shark. JJ Dillon came in and said that Big Bubba and Michael Wallstreet's WCW contract prevented them from being in the NWO. So...what's stopping from the group from being disbanded, especially once the defections from WCW started?

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

I would say it was combination of two things. Both of which happened at the end of 1996. First Bischoff joining. It wasn't necessary since they already had Dibiase functioning as a manager for them and he made much more sense in that he was an ex WWF guy and his gimmick of being rich made him more useful in that it could be used to fill logic holes. Why is the NWO getting the video vignettes on WCW brodcasts? Well because Dibiase paid the television network for the time. Why is the Giant joining the NWO after getting screwed out of the World Title by Hogan? Well because Dibiase swayed him with a big money deal. As mentioned with Giant being a young guy it was believable that he could be easily swayed like that. Bischoff joining just honestly just felt like him latching onto the hottest thing because simply put he was the boss and he could, even though it made no sense from a storyline perspective.

Bischoff then making "you're with us or against us" deadline which led to lower midcard guys like Bagwell, Norton, Bubba, and Wallstreet all joining is when it officially stopped being something special. I know that Bubba and Wallstreet made sense in a way in that they were both ex WWF guys and Wallstreet had the Dibiase connection with them being former successful tag team partners but it really hurt the NWO in that it no longer came off like an elite group anymore. The quantity not being greater then quality expression rings very true in this case as instead of being an elite group that only top level talent could join, it turned into ANYONE can join even if you're a lower card loser who hasn't done anything.

IMO they've just had it as Hogan, Hall, Nash, Syxx, and Dibiase. All ex WWF guys (which is what the original concept was supposed to be in that they were invaders from "up north"), all big stars (Syxx less then the others obviously but he was still a name), and all could have a defined role in the group. Hogan obviously as the World Champion and centerpiece, Hall and Nash as the bad ass tag team, Syxx as the Cruiserweight threat and fall guy who could do jobs when it was necessary while the other three could stay protected, and Dibiase as the benefactor and manager. If they would've just kept it as that it would've been even better then it was I feel.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

Mar 3, 2022 16:34:58 GMT -5 Pure Fusion Jesse Walsh said:

I know people tend to point to Buff Bagwell in discussions like this, but I don’t think it was necessarily a bad idea to have a younger, mid-card guy using the group as a stepping stone for his career.

I think the Marcus Bagwell turn was really well done and set up a dangerous precedent for WCW's side. Anyone could be negotiating with Bischoff and the nWo. It could be your stablemate, it could be your tag team partner, it could be your best friend.

Yeah, it led to a lot of lower mid-carders joining whose real purpose was to make the gang beatdowns more intimidating and get beat up by Sting, Lex Luger, DDP, and The Giant a lot, but this was about as effective a way of starting the nWo's recruitment drive as they could have hoped without hot-shotting a major name in the group, and you can't say that Bagwell didn't make the most out of the turn, changing everything about himself from his look to his finisher (the Buff Blockbuster was a killer finish at the time) as he went from American Male to Buff Daddy. A lot of other guys who joined shortly after were the same damn person, but with black and white gear instead of whatever colors they wore previously.

[Mozenrath]

I feel like it was less who joined and more that they weren't proactive about kicking losers out of the group.

That said, I like Mike Rotunda and Ray Traylor, but both were terrible nWo members.

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

Mar 4, 2022 5:29:37 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

I feel like it was less who joined and more that they weren't proactive about kicking losers out of the group.

That said, I like Mike Rotunda and Ray Traylor, but both were terrible nWo members.

I believe you mean... VK WALLSTREET! >_>

But yeah.. it feels like they should have had some quality control... even something like Ted or Bischoff (depending on when) basically going ... you got your ass kicked for the 20th time... you're a loser and you're fired. Or something... I mean it does kinda bury the guy... but like... so does having them lose 20 times in a row

[Mozenrath]

Mar 4, 2022 5:47:10 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave is Correct said:

Mar 4, 2022 5:29:37 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

I feel like it was less who joined and more that they weren't proactive about kicking losers out of the group.

That said, I like Mike Rotunda and Ray Traylor, but both were terrible nWo members.

I believe you mean... VK WALLSTREET! >_>

But yeah.. it feels like they should have had some quality control... even something like Ted or Bischoff (depending on when) basically going ... you got your ass kicked for the 20th time... you're a loser and you're fired. Or something... I mean it does kinda bury the guy... but like... so does having them lose 20 times in a row

Right, and with some of them, you could at least try to get some sympathy on them and redeem them, which, isn't really an angle they took that often, was it? I'm sure they did it with someone, but I am blanking if so.

[CMWaters]

Mar 4, 2022 5:47:10 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave is Correct said:

Mar 4, 2022 5:29:37 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

I feel like it was less who joined and more that they weren't proactive about kicking losers out of the group.

That said, I like Mike Rotunda and Ray Traylor, but both were terrible nWo members.

I believe you mean... VK WALLSTREET! >_>

But yeah.. it feels like they should have had some quality control... even something like Ted or Bischoff (depending on when) basically going ... you got your ass kicked for the 20th time... you're a loser and you're fired. Or something... I mean it does kinda bury the guy... but like... so does having them lose 20 times in a row

The only two situations like this I could remember off the top of my head were:
1)When Waltman was cut from WCW, there was a promo (I think it was on Thunder in its early days) where Hogan told Nash that Syxx couldn't cut the mustard in the group. When Waltman came to WWF again as X-Pac he referenced this promo.

2)The situation is a bit foggier in my mind, but I think it was Scott Steiner that pretty much kicked Bagwell out of the nWo (Bagwell would keep the basic nWo look, but with recolors, no nWo logos and a new theme).

[Ben Wyatt]

Mar 4, 2022 5:47:10 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave is Correct said:

Mar 4, 2022 5:29:37 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

I feel like it was less who joined and more that they weren't proactive about kicking losers out of the group.

That said, I like Mike Rotunda and Ray Traylor, but both were terrible nWo members.

I believe you mean... VK WALLSTREET! >_>

But yeah.. it feels like they should have had some quality control... even something like Ted or Bischoff (depending on when) basically going ... you got your ass kicked for the 20th time... you're a loser and you're fired. Or something... I mean it does kinda bury the guy... but like... so does having them lose 20 times in a row

Right. How many times does Vincent need to eat finishers during brawls before Bischoff went "Alright, I've seen enough of this. You're out"

[Nr1Humanoid]

It jumped the shark almost from the get go, bringing in Hogan and becoming just another means of getting him over.

[tafkaga]

I could name many things that were awful, annoying and/or made no sense.

BUT, the biggest no no for me was when Sting joined the Wolfpack.

[The Creepo Man]

An old Pro Wrestling Illustrated Q&A with Eddie Ellner actually addressed the issue when they added Syxx and Vincent to the group. He basically said if the nWo was to succeed, it needed quality and not quantity. Who’s next? Barry Horowitz and the Gambler? (Who was the 2nd guy?)

[Ben Wyatt]

Mar 4, 2022 9:21:15 GMT -5 tafkaga said:

I could name many things that were awful, annoying and/or made no sense.

BUT, the biggest no no for me was when Sting joined the Wolfpack.

It was made worse by the fact his demeanor pretty much reverted back to Surfer Sting in the snap of a finger.  

[Deleted]

I never liked the original black and white nWo period. To me the only cool nWo was the Wolfpac (pre Fingerpoke of Doom).

[thegame415]

I'm in the minority here, but I think when they merged is when it went to hell. I loved all things nWo before that.