"Watched It Again": Sable vs. Tori Wrestlemania XV

[wendytorrancev1]

Hello to all my lovies!!

Happy Friday!! Yay!! We finally made it! I love you all!  I hope everyone has a delightful weekend. 

So the other day, while working from home, I stupidly decided to watch Sable vs. Tori at Wrestlemania XV with the WWF Women's Championship on the line. I didn't remember it much, but I did remember that the match wasn't very good. I watched it again, and it was even worse than I remembered it to be. 

First, before the match even began, we got a long winded spiel from Sable about "ArE yOu BoYs ReAdY fOr THE GRIND?!". Not only did Sable cut an incredibly wooden promo, but she gyrated awkwardly in the ring, which wasn't even necessary. 

Then the match took forever to get started, as Sable kept Tori from entering the ring. The two bounced a bit back and forth outside the ring, with Sable performing a hideous looking crossbody from the ring apron on Tori that didn't really connect, but they went with it anyway. There was very little in the way of actual wrestling and there were just strikes for the most part being exchanged between the two women. 

We all know that Sable wasn't a wrestler at all and knew little of the wrestling craft. The one I'm most surprised about is Tori, since she spent some time in LPWA and All Japan's Women Wrestling. She was the more seasoned of the two and had some pretty good matches in her own right in the past. She did absolutely nothing here besides botch some simple moves. I suppose this is because Sable was the heel and technically in control of the match. 

And speaking of Sable being the heel, she didn't do much different than when she was a face. She was always a mouthy show off that acted like her shit didn't stink, and leading up to this event, she just slightly talked a bit more. That's it. There's where my issues with Sable crop up. She was over just because she was "hot". She couldn't cut a promo to save her life, she couldn't dance, her wrestling skills were non-existent. Sable flat out refused to do better, even though her ego grew more massive by the day. Sable refused to take a bump, and it really ruined the illusion of wrestling in the match, like when Tori slammed Sable's "head" on the apron, but you saw Sable put her arms out to stop her head from bouncing off the apron. 

Sable also kept the WWF Women's Championship for far longer than she should have. I believe she kept it for almost sixth months, rarely defending it. And it's weird because the title had just been reactivated in 1998 before she won it from Jacqueline. She lost it to Debra, who also didn't do jack shit with the title besides prance around with it. 

Anyway, back to the match in question. 

Michael Cole kept gushing about how much Sable has improved in her in-ring work and lying to people about how great Sable's "performance" is. I guess this ridiculous, unwarranted praise was required to be said every time Sable was on the screen, or else Vince McMahon would have a little "chat" with you backstage where he would just stare you down. 

The match itself had zero chemistry between either of the two women and the ending with the chain pin attempts from both parties was very sloppy.Tori almost gets pinned trying to lift up for a backslide, slips when trying to do the backslide, gets back up and does it EXTREMELY slowly for a two count. The stuff looked pretty bad. 

The finish on this match. Wow. Nicole Bass makes her WWF debut in this match and slams Tori to the floor. Sable takes advantage of this and executes a Sable Bomb on Tori (which looked sloppy) and pinned Tori, thus retaining. Outside of the horrific wrestling and the unnecessary praise for Sable, the other cringe part was someone in the crowd heckling Nicole Bass; asking to see her penis. Ugh. 

This match was the epitome of what was wrong with the WWF's Women's Division in the late '90s and pretty much what was wrong with the WWF in 1999 in general. Some of the spots were completely botched, Sable refused to learn any new moves besides the kick (not even a shuffle side kick), Sable refused to take bumps (unless it was accidental, see how she botched a flying crossbody above), she garnered unnecessary praise, meanwhile Tori (who was botching simple moves in her own right) was left with nothing to work with. 

[Mozenrath]

Yeah, it was quite the mess. I do feel like Sable was more interesting when she returned in the early 2000s briefly as a heel character, but this first run was crummy as hell.

Maybe we should count our blessings that a shoot argument Sable and Chyna got into during some press junket didn't lead to a match. Chyna was burying Sable and the other women by saying she could win the title at any time, but that since no one would be on her level, it'd be uninteresting. (Level of push, certainly. Level of skill? Well... Chyna was better than Sable and Tori, but she was definitely no Ivory or Jacqueline, to be frank.) She talked about being, "Twice as big and twice as strong."

Sable went low in return, asking what exactly Chyna puts in her body to be twice as big and twice as strong, alluding to steroids. Considering Chyna's unprovoked egotistical attack, this was probably not unwarranted, but it did apparently get heat from people, both because the steroid jab was seen as too far, and because Triple H was very protective of Chyna and would come for anyone who got on her case.

Sable already had intense heat, in any case. Vince and some of the other top people liked her, but outside of them, well... Cornette insists she kept Luna from attacking Sable at least once during when Luna was basically having to carry her constantly to little to no thanks, and the acrimony between Sable and Sunny was legendary. Debra was apparently a total professional and easy to work with, and Terri, Ivovy, and Jacqueline seemed to stay out of the drama for the most part, but it was seemingly quite a chaotic time, probably since the level of money involved had jumped considerable compared to how it was in the mid-90s, so being a top woman meant you got paid MUCH more than the lower ones, and the stakes got higher.

[johnnyk9]

I was at WM 15 I don’t remember the crowd really being into this match

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

I couldn’t believe how awful this was when I watched it. The effort was there, especially on Tori’s part, but oof, a really big stinker

[wendytorrancev1]

Mar 12, 2022 10:12:37 GMT -5 Magic knows Black Lives Matter said:

I couldn’t believe how awful this was when I watched it. The effort was there, especially on Tori’s part, but oof, a really big stinker

Tori did put the effort in, however, this match was a bad idea from the start. 

[jason1980s]

Mar 12, 2022 22:40:33 GMT -5 wendytorrancev1 said:

I couldn’t believe how awful this was when I watched it. The effort was there, especially on Tori’s part, but oof, a really big stinker

Tori did put the effort in, however, this match was a bad idea from the start. [/quote]

Putting Sable as a wrestler was the original bad idea, I wonder what they were thinking. Did they want her to be the female Stone Cold? She was already the most popular female but being a wrestler shouldn't have made her any more popular.

[The Ichi]

This is the only time I can recall an obsessed fan storyline where the obsessed fan was the face.

[sungod2020]

Mar 12, 2022 22:58:12 GMT -5 jason1980s said:

Mar 12, 2022 22:40:33 GMT -5 wendytorrancev1 said:

I couldn’t believe how awful this was when I watched it. The effort was there, especially on Tori’s part, but oof, a really big stinker

Tori did put the effort in, however, this match was a bad idea from the start. 

Putting Sable as a wrestler was the original bad idea, I wonder what they were thinking. Did they want her to be the female Stone Cold? She was already the most popular female but being a wrestler shouldn't have made her any more popular.[/quote]

I think this all started because her popularity eclipsed who she was managing (Marc Mero) at the time so they decided to go along with it. I mean, how far could she have gone just by managing? Who else was there for her to manage?

Also, with the right opponent to carry her, she could be passable in the ring. Jacqueline brought it out in her, and her tagging with Marc Mero to take on Goldust and Luna at Wrestlemania XIV was the best match of her career. It made her look like a hellcat out for revenge and the crowd was on fire for it. 

The Women's division at the time though was at an alltime low. After she left, it only got worse with Debra and The Kat holding the Women's title. I mean, Sable was bad, don't get me wrong, but at least she wrestled(as in performed moves) for it.

Debra "won" it in a bikini contest where the division was reversed because Commissioner Michaels thought she had nicer tits, did absolutely nothing with it the entire time, and then lost it to Ivory. The Kat won it in a four way evening gown pool match(at least we got to see her puppies for a split second afterwards) and then had CHYNA demolish her opponents when she "defended" the belt only to lose it to Harvey Wippleman poorly disguised as a woman in a snowbunny lumberjill match after a minute, who lost it to Jacqueline the next day in 16 seconds. It was real bad.

[Rumble McSkirmish]

The match was trash, but the real disaster was Tori's "Giant Gonzalez cosplay" ring attire.

[wendytorrancev1]

Mar 13, 2022 22:40:26 GMT -5 Rumble McSkirmish said:

The match was trash, but the real disaster was Tori's "Giant Gonzalez cosplay" ring attire.

I'm not even sure what the hell she was wearing. It was like a tight catsuit, but it was loose on her. Then it had those weird spray painted abs on it. I'm not sure what she was thinking with that one. It looked super tacky. 

[wendytorrancev1]

Mar 11, 2022 16:19:18 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Yeah, it was quite the mess. I do feel like Sable was more interesting when she returned in the early 2000s briefly as a heel character, but this first run was crummy as hell.

Maybe we should count our blessings that a shoot argument Sable and Chyna got into during some press junket didn't lead to a match. Chyna was burying Sable and the other women by saying she could win the title at any time, but that since no one would be on her level, it'd be uninteresting. (Level of push, certainly. Level of skill? Well... Chyna was better than Sable and Tori, but she was definitely no Ivory or Jacqueline, to be frank.) She talked about being, "Twice as big and twice as strong."

Sable went low in return, asking what exactly Chyna puts in her body to be twice as big and twice as strong, alluding to steroids. Considering Chyna's unprovoked egotistical attack, this was probably not unwarranted, but it did apparently get heat from people, both because the steroid jab was seen as too far, and because Triple H was very protective of Chyna and would come for anyone who got on her case.

Sable already had intense heat, in any case. Vince and some of the other top people liked her, but outside of them, well... Cornette insists she kept Luna from attacking Sable at least once during when Luna was basically having to carry her constantly to little to no thanks, and the acrimony between Sable and Sunny was legendary. Debra was apparently a total professional and easy to work with, and Terri, Ivovy, and Jacqueline seemed to stay out of the drama for the most part, but it was seemingly quite a chaotic time, probably since the level of money involved had jumped considerable compared to how it was in the mid-90s, so being a top woman meant you got paid MUCH more than the lower ones, and the stakes got higher.

Thanks for that info. I have heard that Chyna and Sable got into it. I just didn't know she went for the jugular with that. I have also heard that Luna didn't too much care for Sable either. I didn't know that Corny had to keep Luna back from attacking Sable. I thought I heard of another story about Sable and Luna being at a charity event autograph signing or some other such nonsense, and Sable and Luna were throwing verbal jabs at each other the whole time. Working with Sable must have been ridiculous. There was some legit BS going on in the women's division. Most of the drama came from two women with crazy high egos. One just had senior management think she was "hot" with very little skill, and the other had marginal skill, but was dating someone who had management's ear. 

[msc]

You watch stuff like that, or Ivory having to job to The Fabulous Moolah (poor Ivory), and the mystery of why old moonsault dropping, ladder match interfering, powerbomb taking Lita became so legendary becomes somewhat less of a mystery.

(Trish showed up at the same time but her in-ring performances only started about 5-6 months afterwards.)

[Deleted]

I can't be the only one who thought Sable was actually not bad in the ring.

She had a sick powerbomb and honestly, I marked when she did it on Marc Mero at WM14.

She was OVER.

[wendytorrancev1]

Mar 14, 2022 11:27:36 GMT -5 msc said:

You watch stuff like that, or Ivory having to job to The Fabulous Moolah (poor Ivory), and the mystery of why old moonsault dropping, ladder match interfering, powerbomb taking Lita became so legendary becomes somewhat less of a mystery.

(Trish showed up at the same time but her in-ring performances only started about 5-6 months afterwards.)

I didn't too much care for Lita's character, but I can't deny that her craft was on point. Besides being influential in the ring, she had also given a breath of fresh air to the Women's division that was much needed. 

Trish, at first, wasn't that great of a wrestler. I believe her turning point was her matches against Stephanie leading up to No Way Out 2001. During that, Trish began to hone her craft, IMHO. 

So yeah, to me, it's not a mystery on why these women were able to both change the Women's division very rapidly, along with Jackie and Ivory. 

[Psicofreak667]

A lot of Attitude Era fans were new wrestling fans who weren't watching during the time of Wendy Richter and Alundra Blayze. So when Sable started doing actual wrestling moves, part of the reason it worked was because the new fans had nothing to compare it to. And yeah, her powerbomb was good, there's a reason she started using it as a finisher after starting out using the TKO.

[wendytorrancev1]

What the hell is Tori wearing? Look at it. I get that it was the '90s, but even '90s fashion didn't look like that. 

[wendytorrancev1]

Mar 14, 2022 15:24:22 GMT -5 Psicofreak667 said:

A lot of Attitude Era fans were new wrestling fans who weren't watching during the time of Wendy Richter and Alundra Blayze. So when Sable started doing actual wrestling moves, part of the reason it worked was because the new fans had nothing to compare it to. And yeah, her powerbomb was good, there's a reason she started using it as a finisher after starting out using the TKO.

I saw some of Alundra Blayze's old work, before she became Medusa. Alundra was pretty great in the ring. My boyfriend at the time had some old VHS tapes with her during her feud with Bertha Faye. 

[Deleted]

Sable’s match with Ivory the monday before this was a disaster as well. Sable was mega over but them deciding she needed to be a wrestler always baffled me. Just because you could do some smoke & mirrors in a mixed tag didn’t mean she had any business in the ring.

[msc]

Mar 14, 2022 15:40:01 GMT -5 wendytorrancev1 said:

What the hell is Tori wearing? Look at it. I get that it was the '90s, but even '90s fashion didn't look like that. 

Pretty much that entire match I was saying to myself "Don't come through to the living room right now, mum". Thankfully she didn't. I was 12 at the time. Parents never showed up during a 5 star clinical ringwork classic, it was always whenever Trish Stratus was twerking on a table or something like that!

One time Mum did appear when The Godfather was in the ring, and she innocently asked why the crowd were chanting "In The Navy". "It's "pimpin' ain't easy"!" said my then 8 year old sister.

Mum went "right" and just walked straight out of the room!

Mar 14, 2022 14:45:35 GMT -5 wendytorrancev1 said:

Mar 14, 2022 11:27:36 GMT -5 msc said:

You watch stuff like that, or Ivory having to job to The Fabulous Moolah (poor Ivory), and the mystery of why old moonsault dropping, ladder match interfering, powerbomb taking Lita became so legendary becomes somewhat less of a mystery.

(Trish showed up at the same time but her in-ring performances only started about 5-6 months afterwards.)

I didn't too much care for Lita's character, but I can't deny that her craft was on point. Besides being influential in the ring, she had also given a breath of fresh air to the Women's division that was much needed. 

Trish, at first, wasn't that great of a wrestler. I believe her turning point was her matches against Stephanie leading up to No Way Out 2001. During that, Trish began to hone her craft, IMHO. 

So yeah, to me, it's not a mystery on why these women were able to both change the Women's division very rapidly, along with Jackie and Ivory. 

Trish/Stephanie is an insanely good match for at the time 2 non-trained wrestlers. By the time she was Womens Champion later that year you could tell she'd put a lot of effort into training and learning. The anti-Sable, if you will.

[chrom]

Mar 14, 2022 15:40:01 GMT -5 wendytorrancev1 said:

What the hell is Tori wearing? Look at it. I get that it was the '90s, but even '90s fashion didn't look like that. 

Looks like she trying to audition for a live action Thundercats movie