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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 31, 2022 14:33:40 GMT -5
Brock and Roman is not a program for kids. This ain’t the John Cena anymore, but it’s not the Austin era either. They’ve found a happy medium. I know that's probably an objectively true statement, but every time I tune into the modern WWE product and see the terrible, overused CGI, the bright colors everywhere, and the painfully scripted and curated promos, I'm just like "man, WWE is as kid-oriented as it's ever been." It's a problem of identity, I think. Decisions made over WWE really show their age because it's just ideas layered on top of one another to try and do X, and what you get is a show packed full of overstuffed nonsense trying to do entirely different things for entirely different purposes. For whatever its merits are NXT 2.0 is a comprehensive rebrand that brought in its identity and its purpose, and on a level of like baseline consistency, it's succeeded in executing that vision. The main roster has none of that because new ideas are just piled on top of what's there. I don't think we get a happy medium with anything because nothing about it really inspires happiness; there's all these tonal disconnects and legacy decisions made ten years ago that have this thing from five years ago piled on and the camera work of seven years ago and now we have big CGI stuff to make the kids pop. It's not coherent. It's kid-oriented except when it's not, and when it's not, it's so not that it seems like different people made it.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Mar 31, 2022 14:39:49 GMT -5
I know that's probably an objectively true statement, but every time I tune into the modern WWE product and see the terrible, overused CGI, the bright colors everywhere, and the painfully scripted and curated promos, I'm just like "man, WWE is as kid-oriented as it's ever been." It's a problem of identity, I think. Decisions made over WWE really show their age because it's just ideas layered on top of one another to try and do X, and what you get is a show packed full of overstuffed nonsense trying to do entirely different things for entirely different purposes. For whatever its merits are NXT 2.0 is a comprehensive rebrand that brought in its identity and its purpose, and on a level of like baseline consistency, it's succeeded in executing that vision. The main roster has none of that because new ideas are just piled on top of what's there. I don't think we get a happy medium with anything because nothing about it really inspires happiness; there's all these tonal disconnects and legacy decisions made ten years ago that have this thing from five years ago piled on and the camera work of seven years ago and now we have big CGI stuff to make the kids pop. It's not coherent. It's kid-oriented except when it's not, and when it's not, it's so not that it seems like different people made it. This is the most accurate version from what I've seen. Like, it's been recent when it feels like they want to go a new direction and then backtrack because the new direction isn't working and try something else. The pattern keeps repeating ad infinitum until, I don't know, Vince passes on or Nick Khan sells the company to, I don't know, Mark Cuban or something. The only thing that stuck for a length of time was The Thunderdome but that was only because the PC was a COVID hotbed and they had no other options.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,388
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Post by Legion on Mar 31, 2022 14:47:21 GMT -5
They try to be everything for everyone.
They want their show to be just as accessible and enjoyable for a 9 year old as a 45 year old.
Sadly, they tend to fail across the board at everything because of that lack of pointed focus. When they try stuff for kids, they piss off older viewers, if they try for something more adult focused, they piss of sponsors and parents. Very few brands manage that outside of real sport, and that only manages it because it's just sport and so you watch for the sport itself and not the story or characters - which is what they want you to watch WWE for.
WWE should consider full brand splits, but each brand have a focus change. Have Raw be your more adult show, have a show on Saturday mornings that aims more at kids, keep a Friday night slot where you try to mix and match like they do now.
Let people grow up with a different show that aims at them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2022 14:56:38 GMT -5
They try to be everything for everyone. They want their show to be just as accessible and enjoyable for a 9 year old as a 45 year old. Sadly, they tend to fail across the board at everything because of that lack of pointed focus. When they try stuff for kids, they piss off older viewers, if they try for something more adult focused, they piss of sponsors and parents. Very few brands manage that outside of real sport, and that only manages it because it's just sport and so you watch for the sport itself and not the story or characters - which is what they want you to watch WWE for. WWE should consider full brand splits, but each brand have a focus change. Have Raw be your more adult show, have a show on Saturday mornings that aims more at kids, keep a Friday night slot where you try to mix and match like they do now. Let people grow up with a different show that aims at them. It would also really serve to freshen up the product in general. Look, I know I'm one of the WWE downers, but shady ethics aside, the biggest problem is that the product is 5 hours a week of the TV equivalent of homogenous gruel that there's plenty of, but doesn't taste great and has zero nutritional value. Nothing really ever feels important or feels like it's a new era, because I don't think there's been a new era in WWE since roughly 2010. Nothing feels fresh, the story telling usually ranges from "What the hell was that?" to "well, that works I guess.". Characters don't feel human, but don't feel bigger than life, either. The seriousness comes off far too melodramatic and the silliness that's meant to be funny just comes off as tired and cringey. And part of me gets it. If you're making more money than you ever have before, why take chances when you're doing just fine making the homogenized gruel? I'm glad Cody (hopefully) got a bag o' cash from Vince, but he's not going to change anything. No one they could sign would, the changes they need go beyond the talent and start with the booking and the presentation.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,388
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Post by Legion on Mar 31, 2022 15:07:39 GMT -5
They try to be everything for everyone. They want their show to be just as accessible and enjoyable for a 9 year old as a 45 year old. Sadly, they tend to fail across the board at everything because of that lack of pointed focus. When they try stuff for kids, they piss off older viewers, if they try for something more adult focused, they piss of sponsors and parents. Very few brands manage that outside of real sport, and that only manages it because it's just sport and so you watch for the sport itself and not the story or characters - which is what they want you to watch WWE for. WWE should consider full brand splits, but each brand have a focus change. Have Raw be your more adult show, have a show on Saturday mornings that aims more at kids, keep a Friday night slot where you try to mix and match like they do now. Let people grow up with a different show that aims at them. It would also really serve to freshen up the product in general. Look, I know I'm one of the WWE downers, but shady ethics aside, the biggest problem is that the product is 5 hours a week of the TV equivalent of homogenous gruel that there's plenty of, but doesn't taste great and has zero nutritional value. Nothing really ever feels important or feels like it's a new era, because I don't think there's been a new era in WWE since roughly 2010. Nothing feels fresh, the story telling usually ranges from "What the hell was that?" to "well, that works I guess.". Characters don't feel human, but don't feel bigger than life, either. The seriousness comes off far too melodramatic and the silliness that's meant to be funny just comes off as tired and cringey. And part of me gets it. If you're making more money than you ever have before, why take chances when you're doing just fine making the homogenized gruel? I'm glad Cody (hopefully) got a bag o' cash from Vince, but he's not going to change anything. No one they could sign would, the changes they need go beyond the talent and start with the booking and the presentation. This is exactly why I'm so desperate for NXT 2.0 to be a success and not change. It's genuinely the most exciting and out there and completely un-WWE that any WWE product has been in years. I get that porridge isn't better than the gruel for some people, and they preferred the oatmeal NXT was before, but still, at least it isnt just more gruel.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2022 15:09:55 GMT -5
It would also really serve to freshen up the product in general. Look, I know I'm one of the WWE downers, but shady ethics aside, the biggest problem is that the product is 5 hours a week of the TV equivalent of homogenous gruel that there's plenty of, but doesn't taste great and has zero nutritional value. Nothing really ever feels important or feels like it's a new era, because I don't think there's been a new era in WWE since roughly 2010. Nothing feels fresh, the story telling usually ranges from "What the hell was that?" to "well, that works I guess.". Characters don't feel human, but don't feel bigger than life, either. The seriousness comes off far too melodramatic and the silliness that's meant to be funny just comes off as tired and cringey. And part of me gets it. If you're making more money than you ever have before, why take chances when you're doing just fine making the homogenized gruel? I'm glad Cody (hopefully) got a bag o' cash from Vince, but he's not going to change anything. No one they could sign would, the changes they need go beyond the talent and start with the booking and the presentation. This is exactly why I'm so desperate for NXT 2.0 to be a success and not change. It's genuinely the most exciting and out there and completely un-WWE that any WWE product has been in years. I get that porridge isn't better than the gruel for some people, and they preferred the oatmeal NXT was before, but still, at least it isnt just more gruel. I freely admit I don't watch WWE anymore, but NXT 2.0 from what I've seen clips of is at least willing to be a little bit WEIRD. Kooky gimmicks, Wade Barrett the horndog, etc.
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Post by Ryushinku on Mar 31, 2022 15:27:28 GMT -5
NXT 2.0 is slowly getting there, though it had a rough as hell start.
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Post by TOK Is the Target Demo on Mar 31, 2022 17:21:09 GMT -5
No shot, the only real options with this story are Cody or Shane. I'm still 99% sure that it has to be Cody but I can also see him pulling out as a final middle finger to Vince It’s definitely Cody. Literally the only gif Seth didn’t post was Cody. I'm not saying the plan isn't Cody, I'm saying that they could drop the bag on this one
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 12,472
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Post by Kalmia on Mar 31, 2022 18:10:47 GMT -5
It's Cody Rhodes. I'm expecting drama and twists and turns right up until the second he walks through the curtain at WM.
And then there will be weeks of talking about the "true story" of the drama leading to his return, and more drama about what will happen in his future.
Have fun, WWE section. He's (hopefully) yours soon!!
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Post by THE FVNKER on Mar 31, 2022 18:35:29 GMT -5
Brock and Roman is not a program for kids. This ain’t the John Cena anymore, but it’s not the Austin era either. They’ve found a happy medium. I know that's probably an objectively true statement, but every time I tune into the modern WWE product and see the terrible, overused CGI, the bright colors everywhere, and the painfully scripted and curated promos, I'm just like "man, WWE is as kid-oriented as it's ever been." This exact thing (however small/big of a deal it is) is why I honestly can't watch WWE. I can't do the big, gaudy ring posts, the "everything-must-be-LED" deal. The camera cuts, the zoom shit they do when someone takes a bump. I'm not sure any of that really even appeals to children but I know that I think their sets/production look like an insane person is in charge of it.
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Post by RareTradU on Mar 31, 2022 18:42:50 GMT -5
I know that's probably an objectively true statement, but every time I tune into the modern WWE product and see the terrible, overused CGI, the bright colors everywhere, and the painfully scripted and curated promos, I'm just like "man, WWE is as kid-oriented as it's ever been." This exact thing (however small/big of a deal it is) is why I honestly can't watch WWE. I can't do the big, gaudy ring posts, the "everything-must-be-LED" deal. The camera cuts, the zoom shit they do when someone takes a bump. I'm not sure any of that really even appeals to children but I know that I think their sets/production look like an insane person is in charge of it. All of this is why I can't stand WWE's production. I love the wrestlers, love the brand but WWE is over doing it. I don't mind the huge stadium shows with massive sets and lights but do we need all of it for every TV taping? It isn't an attractive product, imo. The camera cuts KILL me watching the show. It takes me out of any angle they are doing and I change the channel instantly. Save the glitz and glamor for once or twice a year at WrestleMania and SummerSlam and get back to what got you here. Monday Night Raw was called Raw for a reason. There is nothing raw about their product anymore. Over produced, over technological, over scripted, cookie cutter crap.
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mattyy
Unicron
holy moly its the big homie
Posts: 3,141
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Post by mattyy on Mar 31, 2022 19:21:28 GMT -5
Literally every company does this. I can watch a National TV NBA game and it’s all about bright presentation as well. You have to attract the audience. A dark, grunge, underground look won’t do it anymore. I agree to an extent, but I utterly detest WWE's CGI. Sure, major sports leagues use the CGI logos and scoreboards and everything in their broadcasts, but there's just something about the atrocious CGI that WWE uses like Bianca Belair's weird lip scorpion thing, or, like Riddle's birds he used to have that makes me feel like they're making a concerted effort for the whole show to look and feel like a child-oriented video game. The NBA on TNT doesn't have an enormous CGI clown accompanying Nikola Jokic onto the court during player introductions, for example. I understand what you're saying, I just personally find WWE's overemphasis on CGI in the last 2+ years to be very "kiddie" and an active detriment to the product. yeah, I'm perfectly fine with the CGI match-up graphics they do, and the "tonight we're presented by ____" spots because it feels authentic. big giant bronze robotic roman reigns statue that disappears feels so f***ing hokey and it's f***ing laughable. and speaking laughable: cody rhodes potentially backing out. ....It would be stunningly bad business for WWE... my sibling in christ, that's been wwe for the past two years.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Apr 1, 2022 5:49:43 GMT -5
I'd love if his WWE continuity becomes he never actually left but just got lost in AT&T stadium in 2016 and they're only coming to collect him now.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,763
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Post by nisidhe on Apr 1, 2022 6:15:39 GMT -5
It's Cody Rhodes. I'm expecting drama and twists and turns right up until the second he walks through the curtain at WM. And then there will be weeks of talking about the "true story" of the drama leading to his return, and more drama about what will happen in his future. Have fun, WWE section. He's (hopefully) yours soon!! One can compare the CM Punk debut to Bret's bladejob at Wrestlemania VIII which organically added drama and emotion to an already dramatic and emotional match. It was about as well-placed and well-played as it could be, and it absolutely worked perfectly and raised the bar. Cody's debut is about as subtle as Ric Flair's bladejob later that night - clearly contrived, absolutely out of context, and ultimately did nothing to add to that match with Savage or to the night as a whole. We're expecting Cody to show up but, after what we got with CM Punk's return, I don't think we're going to feel what that crowd felt that night. We're going to be maybe relieved that WWE didn't completely screw it up (unlike AEW who we perceived as delivering on its promises), but perhaps also feel a little prurient curiosity about how Cody is treated after this weekend by WWE.
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Post by CeilingFan on Apr 1, 2022 6:19:43 GMT -5
It's Cody Rhodes. I'm expecting drama and twists and turns right up until the second he walks through the curtain at WM. And then there will be weeks of talking about the "true story" of the drama leading to his return, and more drama about what will happen in his future. Have fun, WWE section. He's (hopefully) yours soon!! One can compare the CM Punk debut to Bret's bladejob at Wrestlemania VIII which organically added drama and emotion to an already dramatic and emotional match. It was about as well-placed and well-played as it could be, and it absolutely worked perfectly and raised the bar. Cody's debut is about as subtle as Ric Flair's bladejob later that night - clearly contrived, absolutely out of context, and ultimately did nothing to add to that match with Savage or to the night as a whole. We're expecting Cody to show up but, after what we got with CM Punk's return, I don't think we're going to feel what that crowd felt that night. We're going to be maybe relieved that WWE didn't completely screw it up (unlike AEW who we perceived as delivering on its promises), but perhaps also feel a little prurient curiosity about how Cody is treated after this weekend by WWE. I love that analogy. WrestleMania 8 is one of my favorite events of all time.
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Post by Killah Ray on Apr 1, 2022 6:23:15 GMT -5
It's Cody Rhodes. I'm expecting drama and twists and turns right up until the second he walks through the curtain at WM. And then there will be weeks of talking about the "true story" of the drama leading to his return, and more drama about what will happen in his future. Have fun, WWE section. He's (hopefully) yours soon!! One can compare the CM Punk debut to Bret's bladejob at Wrestlemania VIII which organically added drama and emotion to an already dramatic and emotional match. It was about as well-placed and well-played as it could be, and it absolutely worked perfectly and raised the bar. Cody's debut is about as subtle as Ric Flair's bladejob later that night - clearly contrived, absolutely out of context, and ultimately did nothing to add to that match with Savage or to the night as a whole. We're expecting Cody to show up but, after what we got with CM Punk's return, I don't think we're going to feel what that crowd felt that night. We're going to be maybe relieved that WWE didn't completely screw it up (unlike AEW who we perceived as delivering on its promises), but perhaps also feel a little prurient curiosity about how Cody is treated after this weekend by WWE. Huh? Punk’s debut wasn’t organic at all. He was rumored for a while and when Rampage was announced for Chicago there was pretty much a huge neon sign announcing that’s where he was gonna debut. So if anything Cody and Punk’s debuts are exactly the same where people are just ready for it to happen.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 1, 2022 6:43:20 GMT -5
Huh? Punk’s debut wasn’t organic at all. He was rumored for a while and when Rampage was announced for Chicago there was pretty much a huge neon sign announcing that’s where he was gonna debut. So if anything Cody and Punk’s debuts are exactly the same where people are just ready for it to happen. I mean, yes and no. Yes because, like you said, the moment the Rampage was announced, it was pretty much confirmed without them confirming it that Punk would be there. They hinted at it enough to make you realize it. I'd also say no because, even before the Rampage was announced, there was still speculation of WWE being interested because he was still technically signed to a Fox deal so the logic would be that Fox would pay for Punk to wrestle, being under their deal, and all WWE would do is have him on the show and agree certain conditions for him to wrestle. It was also why there were rumours of Fox being annoyed since, for all the talk of television executives missing the mark, many of them can hear and see people chanting for CM Punk so logically, you'd want that guy to be on the show. And, obviously, the Rampage got announced and the rest was history (even though there were still people that didn't believe it because wrestling announcement history). Cody, in comparison, is pretty much like when it's rumored that Lashley/McIntyre/The Hardys/Insert Name Here signs and they'll debut on WrestleMania weekend/Raw after WrestleMania. Like, they had him before, there's nowhere else they'd really go so...it's not as put together and planned. It wasn't organic but they were slightly different beasts.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,763
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Post by nisidhe on Apr 1, 2022 6:47:20 GMT -5
One can compare the CM Punk debut to Bret's bladejob at Wrestlemania VIII which organically added drama and emotion to an already dramatic and emotional match. It was about as well-placed and well-played as it could be, and it absolutely worked perfectly and raised the bar. Cody's debut is about as subtle as Ric Flair's bladejob later that night - clearly contrived, absolutely out of context, and ultimately did nothing to add to that match with Savage or to the night as a whole. We're expecting Cody to show up but, after what we got with CM Punk's return, I don't think we're going to feel what that crowd felt that night. We're going to be maybe relieved that WWE didn't completely screw it up (unlike AEW who we perceived as delivering on its promises), but perhaps also feel a little prurient curiosity about how Cody is treated after this weekend by WWE. Huh? Punk’s debut wasn’t organic at all. He was rumored for a while and when Rampage was announced for Chicago there was pretty much a huge neon sign announcing that’s where he was gonna debut. So if anything Cody and Punk’s debuts are exactly the same where people are just ready for it to happen. What was organic and "real" was the reaction when Punk actually appeared. We as fans had been so burned-out by bait-and-switches and "card subject to change" shenanigans and "subverting expectations" that few could actually believe that Punk would show up on AEW - until he actually did. It might have been hinted at (TK was certainly coy about it), but the relief and the joy that crowd felt made AEW something they could trust to give them what they wanted. Compare this with all the hype surrounding Cody jumping ship, all WWE's hints about him showing up there, and now the chain-yanking on social media for someone who, prior to AEW, couldn't break out of the midcard in WWE. Sure, it'll be a moment, but it's a moment on which WWE _needs_ to deliver. If he doesn't sign and appear or, worse, if they get him and make a dog's dinner of it, WWE's going to lose face on its biggest stage; and unlike in Chicago for Rampage, a good number of the fans in Dallas are going to do a Nelsonesque "HA HA" if that happens. WWE doesn't have the benefit of fan goodwill and hasn't had it for some time.
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 1, 2022 7:00:17 GMT -5
Huh? Punk’s debut wasn’t organic at all. He was rumored for a while and when Rampage was announced for Chicago there was pretty much a huge neon sign announcing that’s where he was gonna debut. So if anything Cody and Punk’s debuts are exactly the same where people are just ready for it to happen. What was organic and "real" was the reaction when Punk actually appeared. We as fans had been so burned-out by bait-and-switches and "card subject to change" shenanigans and "subverting expectations" that few could actually believe that Punk would show up on AEW - until he actually did. It might have been hinted at (TK was certainly coy about it), but the relief and the joy that crowd felt made AEW something they could trust to give them what they wanted. Compare this with all the hype surrounding Cody jumping ship, all WWE's hints about him showing up there, and now the chain-yanking on social media for someone who, prior to AEW, couldn't break out of the midcard in WWE. Sure, it'll be a moment, but it's a moment on which WWE _needs_ to deliver. If he doesn't sign and appear or, worse, if they get him and make a dog's dinner of it, WWE's going to lose face on its biggest stage; and unlike in Chicago for Rampage, a good number of the fans in Dallas are going to do a Nelsonesque "HA HA" if that happens. WWE doesn't have the benefit of fan goodwill and hasn't had it for some time. They’re both similar in that they are debuts that have been hinted at (on-screen, WWE hasn’t really hinted at all that it’s Cody that will be Rollins opponent, though). But beyond that, you can’t really compare Punk who hadn’t wrestled in 7 years to the return of someone who was wrestling on Dynamite a couple months ago. This is more akin to the Hardy’s return a few years ago.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 12,472
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Post by Kalmia on Apr 1, 2022 7:58:34 GMT -5
It's Cody Rhodes. I'm expecting drama and twists and turns right up until the second he walks through the curtain at WM. And then there will be weeks of talking about the "true story" of the drama leading to his return, and more drama about what will happen in his future. Have fun, WWE section. He's (hopefully) yours soon!! One can compare the CM Punk debut to Bret's bladejob at Wrestlemania VIII which organically added drama and emotion to an already dramatic and emotional match. It was about as well-placed and well-played as it could be, and it absolutely worked perfectly and raised the bar. Cody's debut is about as subtle as Ric Flair's bladejob later that night - clearly contrived, absolutely out of context, and ultimately did nothing to add to that match with Savage or to the night as a whole. We're expecting Cody to show up but, after what we got with CM Punk's return, I don't think we're going to feel what that crowd felt that night. We're going to be maybe relieved that WWE didn't completely screw it up (unlike AEW who we perceived as delivering on its promises), but perhaps also feel a little prurient curiosity about how Cody is treated after this weekend by WWE. Savage vs. Flair is low key one of my fave matches of all time (maybe because that was my first Mania) but I can't deny you're wrong. The match already had its story and drama, the blood added nothing.
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