fw91
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Post by fw91 on Apr 3, 2022 11:52:57 GMT -5
He’s not a saint by any means, but imo this way of thinking off-sets any point that was made by the OP, which again imo is very accurate. I’m not going to say Vince is a stand up guy, but I don’t think one can be dismissive of the op. OP's post had literally nothing to do with Vince, so I'm not sure why you're trying to get a debate you throughly lost last time going. But incase it wasn't made clear enough, no, it's not a cop out to blame Vince, the literal owner of the company and man who has final say on everything. It’s not about Vince! But hey if you want to villify go ahead, I’m not to going to cry about it That’s what you get hung up on. The debate is more about the roster of square pegs in the round holes that doesn’t make wrestling as popular as it once was. Again Vince is responsible for the boring product, but not why a generic looking person doesn’t reach the heights of a past legend. That’s the point I’m trying to make. I think the latter point can’t be undersold. But of course that’s just me.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Apr 3, 2022 12:00:52 GMT -5
OP's post had literally nothing to do with Vince, so I'm not sure why you're trying to get a debate you throughly lost last time going. But incase it wasn't made clear enough, no, it's not a cop out to blame Vince, the literal owner of the company and man who has final say on everything. It’s not about Vince! But hey if you want to villify go ahead, I’m not to going to cry about it That’s what you get hung up on. The debate is more about the roster of square pegs in the round holes that doesn’t make wrestling as popular as it once was. Again Vince is responsible for the boring product, but not why a generic looking person doesn’t reach the heights of a past legend. That’s the point I’m trying to make. I think the latter point can’t be undersold. But of course that’s just me. sorry that sounded a bit assholeish, but I don't like being vilified and having my words misinterpreted. I know my take is unpopular, but I'll figuretively die on that sward. Like Vince was in charge for all of Cena's run? Was it not good? I could see the arguments made, but it wasn't boring like it is today. I think that has to do with the players that the op was alluding to moreso than management.
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Post by defectiveepitaph on Apr 3, 2022 12:08:27 GMT -5
Why would you even want it to be mainstream? WWE is already suffering from being too safe and formulaic, going full Disney and having every little decision market researched and committee-approved would only make it even more lifeless and phoney than it already is. Came here to say exactly this.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 3, 2022 12:08:53 GMT -5
It’s not about Vince! But hey if you want to villify go ahead, I’m not to going to cry about it That’s what you get hung up on. The debate is more about the roster of square pegs in the round holes that doesn’t make wrestling as popular as it once was. Again Vince is responsible for the boring product, but not why a generic looking person doesn’t reach the heights of a past legend. That’s the point I’m trying to make. I think the latter point can’t be undersold. But of course that’s just me. sorry that sounded a bit assholeish, but I don't like being vilified and having my words misinterpreted. I know my take is unpopular, but I'll figuretively die on that sward. Like Vince was in charge for all of Cena's run? Was it not good? I could see the arguments made, but it wasn't boring like it is today. I think that has to do with the players that the op was alluding to moreso than management. Thing is, Vince has just turned into even more of a control freak since then. Everything gets neutered now. Yeah, there probably aren't many guys with the weird charisma of Warrior left, but even if they existed, Vince wouldn't let them channel it, or would demand they channel it *his* way. Too many years have gone by and too many second hand reports have come out about how restrictive WWE's environment is that's it baffling that threads like this still exist where people unironically believe the wrestlers are to blame.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Apr 3, 2022 12:21:34 GMT -5
sorry that sounded a bit assholeish, but I don't like being vilified and having my words misinterpreted. I know my take is unpopular, but I'll figuretively die on that sward. Like Vince was in charge for all of Cena's run? Was it not good? I could see the arguments made, but it wasn't boring like it is today. I think that has to do with the players that the op was alluding to moreso than management. Thing is, Vince has just turned into even more of a control freak since then. Everything gets neutered now. Yeah, there probably aren't many guys with the weird charisma of Warrior left, but even if they existed, Vince wouldn't let them channel it, or would demand they channel it *his* way. Too many years have gone by and too many second hand reports have come out about how restrictive WWE's environment is that's it baffling that threads like this still exist where people unironically believe the wrestlers are to blame. Well honestly, it’s probably a bit of column a and a bit of column b. I think sports entertainment shouldn’t be something that’s mocked but rather just a classification of style. Although I admit that saying it as a primary word instead of wrestling is stupid. However I think many talent aren’t well matched for sports entertainment which I think is the biggest draw when it’s done right. “Real pro wrestling” is a style that’s carved to the niche. Many of todays talent are better suited for that. I just don’t think management is to blame when a “real pro wrestler” falters as a “sports entertainer.” And I don’t think a “sports entertainer,” who fails as a “real pro wrestler,” (let’s say Miz jumps to AEW) would be the fault of the Tony Khans of the world either.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Apr 3, 2022 12:22:37 GMT -5
Why would you even want it to be mainstream? WWE is already suffering from being too safe and formulaic, going full Disney and having every little decision market researched and committee-approved would only make it even more lifeless and phoney than it already is. Came here to say exactly this. Well the exposure would be flattering I guess.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Apr 3, 2022 12:36:00 GMT -5
It’s not about Vince! But hey if you want to villify go ahead, I’m not to going to cry about it That’s what you get hung up on. The debate is more about the roster of square pegs in the round holes that doesn’t make wrestling as popular as it once was. Again Vince is responsible for the boring product, but not why a generic looking person doesn’t reach the heights of a past legend. That’s the point I’m trying to make. I think the latter point can’t be undersold. But of course that’s just me. sorry that sounded a bit assholeish, but I don't like being vilified and having my words misinterpreted. I know my take is unpopular, but I'll figuretively die on that sward. Like Vince was in charge for all of Cena's run? Was it not good? I could see the arguments made, but it wasn't boring like it is today. I think that has to do with the players that the op was alluding to moreso than management. Were you not on the internet during Cena's run? People hated the shows then as much as they do now.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Apr 3, 2022 12:38:13 GMT -5
sorry that sounded a bit assholeish, but I don't like being vilified and having my words misinterpreted. I know my take is unpopular, but I'll figuretively die on that sward. Like Vince was in charge for all of Cena's run? Was it not good? I could see the arguments made, but it wasn't boring like it is today. I think that has to do with the players that the op was alluding to moreso than management. Were you not on the internet during Cena's run? People hated the shows then as much as they do now. For different reasons. They’re were still stories that were worth talking about
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Post by stoptheclocks on Apr 3, 2022 12:45:40 GMT -5
Were you not on the internet during Cena's run? People hated the shows then as much as they do now. For different reasons. They’re were still stories that were worth talking about I think that's looking back with very rose tinted glasses. For the entire period I've been using the internet - Reign of Terror onwards - the consistent vibe is that the WWE is the absolute shits and the worst it's ever been. It's impossible to overestimate just how hated HHH and then John Cena were during their runs on top. Tribal Chief Roman is beloved in comparison.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Apr 3, 2022 12:49:35 GMT -5
For different reasons. They’re were still stories that were worth talking about I think that's looking back with very rose tinted glasses. For the entire period I've been using the internet - Reign of Terror onwards - the consistent vibe is that the WWE is the absolute shits and the worst it's ever been. It's impossible to overestimate just how hated HHH and then John Cena were during their runs on top. Tribal Chief Roman is beloved in comparison. And I think that’s a rose tinted take lol. There were still other things beyond Cena and HHH that kept you engaged and I think the iwc was dead wrong on Cena. But again that was a case of being bad but not boring. I can tolerate bad, but not boring. The shows were still appointment tv for me. Today it’s background noise and internet reading
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2022 13:33:57 GMT -5
One thing I have heard alot is WWE being called the McDonald's of wrestling and lacking of soul or substance...
It is interesting when you look at the fact that these overall online narratives 9 out of 10 times do not seem to perpetuate from the wrestlers themselves.
On the other hand statements like Cody Rhodes willingly signed off his right to never win the AEW world title and then gave up everything at a last shot at WWE's are factually accurate but designed to trigger and are a lot of the reason why people have so much resentment either way.
Perception is everything even if another place sells better burgers at the time.
Now I just wish the fans would all just sit down and eat like the wrestlers seem to be doing instead of arguing non-stop...I am one of those fans myself...
There are so many options out there right now and we all should be a little more willing to browse the buffet because it is a pretty damn good time to be hungry.
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