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Post by mistery on Apr 27, 2022 10:57:13 GMT -5
It’s not just about “getting her an opponent” either. It’s trying to build even SOME tension. This is the same issue with Roman right now, No offense to Shayna, Liv, Tamina, etc. this is not a slight on them. But NO ONE would buy that they have a prayer of beating Bianca if they faced off. Yup. This is ultimately what it boils down to. Absolutely no one looks like a threat to Bianca, nor is anyone even remotely believable. And that's an absolutely massive problem. It should be painfully obvious that they are going to push Bianca super hard until fans turn on her, if this past Monday was any indication where she basically no sold a DDT to a chair, and despite what would normally be overwhelming disadvantages against her, steamrolled over Sonya, Zelina, and Carmella without much effort. And that makes for a very bad title scene if the big top babyface is never threatened or never in danger of losing their title. There absolutely needs to be some suspense in the top face (or heel) losing the title in pretty much any of their title programs. The problem is that WWE seems to forget that part. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 27, 2022 11:26:59 GMT -5
It’s not just about “getting her an opponent” either. It’s trying to build even SOME tension. This is the same issue with Roman right now, No offense to Shayna, Liv, Tamina, etc. this is not a slight on them. But NO ONE would buy that they have a prayer of beating Bianca if they faced off. Yup. This is ultimately what it boils down to. Absolutely no one looks like a threat to Bianca, nor is anyone even remotely believable. And that's an absolutely massive problem. It should be painfully obvious that they are going to push Bianca super hard until fans turn on her, if this past Monday was any indication where she basically no sold a DDT to a chair, and despite what would normally be overwhelming disadvantages against her, steamrolled over Sonya, Zelina, and Carmella without much effort. And that makes for a very bad title scene if the big top babyface is never threatened or never in danger of losing their title. There absolutely needs to be some suspense in the top face (or heel) losing the title in pretty much any of their title programs. The problem is that WWE seems to forget that part. It’s an exaggeration to say that no one is a credible threat to her. There’s at least 5-6 feuds that they can go with that involve credible challengers (and not the Taminas, Dana Brooke, Zelinas of the world). Becky rematch, Asuka, Ronda, Charlotte, Rhea, Bayley are already 6 potential opponents where the challenger is credible. And that’s not including them potentially heating up some of the other women/calling up talent over the next several months. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 11:48:15 GMT -5
Yup. This is ultimately what it boils down to. Absolutely no one looks like a threat to Bianca, nor is anyone even remotely believable. And that's an absolutely massive problem. It should be painfully obvious that they are going to push Bianca super hard until fans turn on her, if this past Monday was any indication where she basically no sold a DDT to a chair, and despite what would normally be overwhelming disadvantages against her, steamrolled over Sonya, Zelina, and Carmella without much effort. And that makes for a very bad title scene if the big top babyface is never threatened or never in danger of losing their title. There absolutely needs to be some suspense in the top face (or heel) losing the title in pretty much any of their title programs. The problem is that WWE seems to forget that part. It’s an exaggeration to say that no one is a credible threat to her. There’s at least 5-6 feuds that they can go with that involve credible challengers (and not the Taminas, Dana Brooke, Zelinas of the world). Becky rematch, Asuka, Ronda, Charlotte, Rhea, Bayley are already 6 potential opponents where the challenger is credible. And that’s not including them potentially heating up some of the other women/calling up talent over the next several months. Bayley beat multiple times already Charlotte multiple wins over her albeit by DQ Rhea beat multiple times already Becky beaten multiple times including for the title at Mania See where the issues lies...she has already beaten these women multiple times so where is the threat? Okay she has Asuka left...lets be honest with WWE's track record especially with asian talents lately that Asuka is going to beat her for the title? The only one you named that would clearly be positioned to do it would be Ronnie and they would have to do a whole lot of maneuvering to even get that to happen but how poor does that make the rest of the women look that only the woman who has less than a year remaining with the company would be the only one credible enough to beat Bianca at this point. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 27, 2022 11:53:51 GMT -5
It’s an exaggeration to say that no one is a credible threat to her. There’s at least 5-6 feuds that they can go with that involve credible challengers (and not the Taminas, Dana Brooke, Zelinas of the world). Becky rematch, Asuka, Ronda, Charlotte, Rhea, Bayley are already 6 potential opponents where the challenger is credible. And that’s not including them potentially heating up some of the other women/calling up talent over the next several months. Bayley beat multiple times already Charlotte multiple wins over her albeit by DQ Rhea beat multiple times already Becky beaten multiple times including for the title at Mania See where the issues lies...she has already beaten these women multiple times so where is the threat? Okay she has Asuka left...lets be honest with WWE's track record especially with asian talents lately that Asuka is going to beat her for the title? The only one you named that would clearly be positioned to do it would be Ronnie and they would have to do a whole lot of maneuvering to even get that to happen but how poor does that make the rest of the women look that only the woman who has less than a year remaining with the company would be the only one credible enough to beat Bianca at this point. Having not faced people prior is not a prerequisite to someone being a threat. You don’t think if Rhea was to challenge Bianca at Summerslam that there is a real possibility or at least threat that Rhea is winning? Or same with a Becky rematch? Or if Charlotte gets traded to Raw/wins MITB? I think there’d be real doubt as to who would win any of those. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 12:16:06 GMT -5
Bayley beat multiple times already Charlotte multiple wins over her albeit by DQ Rhea beat multiple times already Becky beaten multiple times including for the title at Mania See where the issues lies...she has already beaten these women multiple times so where is the threat? Okay she has Asuka left...lets be honest with WWE's track record especially with asian talents lately that Asuka is going to beat her for the title? The only one you named that would clearly be positioned to do it would be Ronnie and they would have to do a whole lot of maneuvering to even get that to happen but how poor does that make the rest of the women look that only the woman who has less than a year remaining with the company would be the only one credible enough to beat Bianca at this point. Having not faced people prior is not a prerequisite to someone being a threat. You don’t think if Rhea was to challenge Bianca at Summerslam that there is a real possibility or at least threat that Rhea is winning? Or same with a Becky rematch? Or if Charlotte gets traded to Raw/wins MITB? I think there’d be real doubt as to who would win any of those. Rhea is the only one anyone thinks has a chance and not because she has been positioned as any threat but because there is no one else and that is not a great outlook for this division of women. And it leans even stronger in that direction that no one is positioned as a threat to her with what they did monday by not only no selling getting ddt'd on a chair but overcoming 3 on 1 odds also so she is getting that super cena booking and that sure boded well for everyone else when it was happening back then... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 12:43:16 GMT -5
I gotta disagree with the idea that Rhea might be the only one people might think has a chance at beating Bianca. After all the complaints about Charlotte and Ronda on this forum, those 2 are definitely others people think can beat her any day of the week. Let alone, a fresh Bayley who's returning from injury renewed has that "hey this person's back and they're better than ever" momentum that others can't really get. Same with Asuka.
As for Liv and any others, not every match has to have you think that that the champion can definitely lose against the challenger. Sometimes you can have matches where it's more about if the challenger themselves can rise up and face the champion and that's how a Liv match would go. I've seen a lot of comments slighting Liv and a feud but it's clear to me they'd book it as Liv being the underdog and Bianca being the dominant champion similar to an Ambrose/Ziggler match although it'll be much better than that one.
One thing this thread's showing is that people are underestimating how great WWE can book challengers when needed and it's also showing that people are really limiting the different dynamics of matches. Not every match has to be "babyface champion is cool but the big bad heel can beat them if they throw down so how can the babyface survive" type of matches. That's been most of Bianca's championship runs albeit a few title matches where it wasn't.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 27, 2022 12:46:07 GMT -5
Eh I feel like we’re passed that point with Liv now. Maybe a few years ago that story could have worked. But now, if she keeps getting matches, she needs to start WINNING them.
It’s becoming almost a running joke how she constantly loses when it matters.
WWE suffers from a lack of tension in their big title scenes in general right now honestly.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 27, 2022 15:28:35 GMT -5
I gotta disagree with the idea that Rhea might be the only one people might think has a chance of beating Bianca. After all the complaints about Charlotte and Ronda on this forum, those 2 are definitely others people think can beat her any day of the week. Let alone, a fresh Bayley who's returning from injury renewed has that "hey this person's back and they're better than ever" momentum that others can't really get. Same with Asuka. As for Liv and any others, not every match has to have you think that that the champion can definitely lose against the challenger. Sometimes you can have matches where it's more about if the challenger themselves can rise up and face the champion and that's how a Liv match would go. I've seen a lot of comments on slighting Liv and her potential but it's clear to me they'd book it as Liv being the underdog and Bianca being the dominant champion similar to an Ambrose/Ziggler match although it'll be much better than that one. One thing this thread's showing is that people are underestimating how great WWE can book challengers when needed and it's also showing that people are really limiting the different dynamics of matches. Not every match has to be "babyface champion is cool but the big bad heel can beat them if they throw down so how can the babyface survive" type of matches. That's been most of Bianca's championship runs albeit a few title matches where it wasn't. I've always been a Liv fan and think they're really missing the boat with her but at this point it's kind of whatever. I guess it could make a good story with her finally winning a title but I honestly don't think it's ever going to happen because one I don't think they are smart enough to execute a story like that well and secondly I just don't think they care enough about her to give that to her. I mean she's been on the main roster five years and has literally no accomplishments. Not even a Tag Title which is basically a participation trophy for the women in that every one wins them at some point and they can't even give her that despite being in good teams. I don't know if someone higher up just really doesn't like her but it's gotten to the point where even if she does win something eventually they've portrayed her as such a choke artist who keeps losing big matches all the time that if it finally does happen I don't think any one is going to care and will be kind of like "well even a blind squirrel can find a nut eventually". |
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 27, 2022 15:30:39 GMT -5
I gotta disagree with the idea that Rhea might be the only one people might think has a chance of beating Bianca. After all the complaints about Charlotte and Ronda on this forum, those 2 are definitely others people think can beat her any day of the week. Let alone, a fresh Bayley who's returning from injury renewed has that "hey this person's back and they're better than ever" momentum that others can't really get. Same with Asuka. As for Liv and any others, not every match has to have you think that that the champion can definitely lose against the challenger. Sometimes you can have matches where it's more about if the challenger themselves can rise up and face the champion and that's how a Liv match would go. I've seen a lot of comments on slighting Liv and her potential but it's clear to me they'd book it as Liv being the underdog and Bianca being the dominant champion similar to an Ambrose/Ziggler match although it'll be much better than that one. One thing this thread's showing is that people are underestimating how great WWE can book challengers when needed and it's also showing that people are really limiting the different dynamics of matches. Not every match has to be "babyface champion is cool but the big bad heel can beat them if they throw down so how can the babyface survive" type of matches. That's been most of Bianca's championship runs albeit a few title matches where it wasn't. I've always been a Liv fan and think they're really missing the boat with her but at this point it's kind of whatever. I guess it could make a good story with her finally winning a title but I honestly don't think it's ever going to happen because one I don't think they are smart enough to execute a story like that well and secondly I just don't think they care enough about her to give that to her. I mean she's been on the main roster five years and has literally no accomplishments. Not even a Tag Title which is basically a participation trophy for the women in that every one wins them at some point and they can't even give her that despite being in good teams. I don't know if someone higher up just really doesn't like her but it's gotten to the point where even if she does win something eventually they've portrayed her as such a choke artist who keeps losing big matches all the time that if it finally does happen I don't think any one is going to care and will be kind of like "well even a blind squirrel can find a nut eventually". Is it possible that they just like her as a midcarder? I mean for the most part, she's a had storyline or something for the last year. She isn't in catering everyweek so maybe they just see her a popular midcard face but nothing else. That isn't the worst spot in the world to be at. |
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 27, 2022 15:38:35 GMT -5
I've always been a Liv fan and think they're really missing the boat with her but at this point it's kind of whatever. I guess it could make a good story with her finally winning a title but I honestly don't think it's ever going to happen because one I don't think they are smart enough to execute a story like that well and secondly I just don't think they care enough about her to give that to her. I mean she's been on the main roster five years and has literally no accomplishments. Not even a Tag Title which is basically a participation trophy for the women in that every one wins them at some point and they can't even give her that despite being in good teams. I don't know if someone higher up just really doesn't like her but it's gotten to the point where even if she does win something eventually they've portrayed her as such a choke artist who keeps losing big matches all the time that if it finally does happen I don't think any one is going to care and will be kind of like "well even a blind squirrel can find a nut eventually". Is it possible that they just like her as a midcarder? I mean for the most part, she's a had storyline or something for the last year. She isn't in catering everyweek so maybe they just see her a popular midcard face but nothing else. That isn't the worst spot in the world to be at. It's weird with her in that there's some things that make you think they see at least something in her with all the things you brought up (always on TV and PPVs and having a storyline) and she's avoided the roster cuts however at the same time they seem to hold something against her where they don't want her to ever win anything either. I agree having a popular midcard face is great as not everyone can be a main eventer and you need people like that on the roster but at the same time you have to throw the midcard face some kind of bone here and there and have them accomplish something to give a reason to care. Like if they don't think Liv is World Champion material then fine not everyone should be World Champion but are telling me they can't at least give her a tag title or maybe had her win Queen of the Ring which would've at least gave her some momentum going her feud with Becky. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 16:00:25 GMT -5
I gotta disagree with the idea that Rhea might be the only one people might think has a chance of beating Bianca. After all the complaints about Charlotte and Ronda on this forum, those 2 are definitely others people think can beat her any day of the week. Let alone, a fresh Bayley who's returning from injury renewed has that "hey this person's back and they're better than ever" momentum that others can't really get. Same with Asuka. As for Liv and any others, not every match has to have you think that that the champion can definitely lose against the challenger. Sometimes you can have matches where it's more about if the challenger themselves can rise up and face the champion and that's how a Liv match would go. I've seen a lot of comments on slighting Liv and her potential but it's clear to me they'd book it as Liv being the underdog and Bianca being the dominant champion similar to an Ambrose/Ziggler match although it'll be much better than that one. One thing this thread's showing is that people are underestimating how great WWE can book challengers when needed and it's also showing that people are really limiting the different dynamics of matches. Not every match has to be "babyface champion is cool but the big bad heel can beat them if they throw down so how can the babyface survive" type of matches. That's been most of Bianca's championship runs albeit a few title matches where it wasn't. I've always been a Liv fan and think they're really missing the boat with her but at this point it's kind of whatever. I guess it could make a good story with her finally winning a title but I honestly don't think it's ever going to happen because one I don't think they are smart enough to execute a story like that well and secondly I just don't think they care enough about her to give that to her. I mean she's been on the main roster five years and has literally no accomplishments. Not even a Tag Title which is basically a participation trophy for the women in that every one wins them at some point and they can't even give her that despite being in good teams. I don't know if someone higher up just really doesn't like her but it's gotten to the point where even if she does win something eventually they've portrayed her as such a choke artist who keeps losing big matches all the time that if it finally does happen I don't think any one is going to care and will be kind of like "well even a blind squirrel can find a nut eventually". While I definitely don't think she's beating Bianca, I can easily see her as being the female underdog babyface star on Raw given they don't really have anyone to fulfill that role. Given they've given her pushes in the past (although they weren't long) and given she even had that one Becky match yeah I can see her facing Bianca, doing well and eventually losing. Someone like her will only win a title at a super big event or it'll be through cash-in. From what I've read it does seem like they like her but the thing is they love tons others so yeah lol. Like say she wins a match and gets a Bianca feud similar to the one she did with Becky and then she loses the match. Through the match she shows that she's a contender and even if she didn't win, she's better than what people thought which makes her a bigger babyface. That's pretty much what I'd expect out of a Liv feud. Even if it's just one month, the feud would do it's job and that's improving her as a babyface. |
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 28, 2022 3:15:20 GMT -5
I've always been a Liv fan and think they're really missing the boat with her but at this point it's kind of whatever. I guess it could make a good story with her finally winning a title but I honestly don't think it's ever going to happen because one I don't think they are smart enough to execute a story like that well and secondly I just don't think they care enough about her to give that to her. I mean she's been on the main roster five years and has literally no accomplishments. Not even a Tag Title which is basically a participation trophy for the women in that every one wins them at some point and they can't even give her that despite being in good teams. I don't know if someone higher up just really doesn't like her but it's gotten to the point where even if she does win something eventually they've portrayed her as such a choke artist who keeps losing big matches all the time that if it finally does happen I don't think any one is going to care and will be kind of like "well even a blind squirrel can find a nut eventually". While I definitely don't think she's beating Bianca, I can easily see her as being the female underdog babyface star on Raw given they don't really have anyone to fulfill that role. Given they've given her pushes in the past (although they weren't long) and given she even had that one Becky match yeah I can see her facing Bianca, doing well and eventually losing. Someone like her will only win a title at a super big event or it'll be through cash-in. From what I've read it does seem like they like her but the thing is they love tons others so yeah lol. Like say she wins a match and gets a Bianca feud similar to the one she did with Becky and then she loses the match. Through the match she shows that she's a contender and even if she didn't win, she's better than what people thought which makes her a bigger babyface. That's pretty much what I'd expect out of a Liv feud. Even if it's just one month, the feud would do it's job and that's improving her as a babyface. [/b] Like you said though they did the same exact thing with the feud she had with Becky. So what would be the point of doing that again with the same result? It wouldn't do anything for Liv since they already did "the strong in defeat" thing with her previously and it wouldn't do anything for Bianca to beat someone she would be a big favorite against. If you had Liv pull off a big upset on Bianca and win the title to set up a Bianca heel turn then I guess it would have a point however that's not something I would consider doing as Bianca is still popular so there's no reason to turn her heel especially since they are so short on faces on Raw. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 7:22:54 GMT -5
While I definitely don't think she's beating Bianca, I can easily see her as being the female underdog babyface star on Raw given they don't really have anyone to fulfill that role. Given they've given her pushes in the past (although they weren't long) and given she even had that one Becky match yeah I can see her facing Bianca, doing well and eventually losing. Someone like her will only win a title at a super big event or it'll be through cash-in. From what I've read it does seem like they like her but the thing is they love tons others so yeah lol. Like say she wins a match and gets a Bianca feud similar to the one she did with Becky and then she loses the match. Through the match she shows that she's a contender and even if she didn't win, she's better than what people thought which makes her a bigger babyface. That's pretty much what I'd expect out of a Liv feud. Even if it's just one month, the feud would do it's job and that's improving her as a babyface.Like you said though they did the same exact thing with the feud she had with Becky. So what would be the point of doing that again with the same result? It wouldn't do anything for Liv since they already did "the strong in defeat" thing with her previously and it wouldn't do anything for Bianca to beat someone she would be a big favorite against. If you had Liv pull off a big upset on Bianca and win the title to set up a Bianca heel turn then I guess it would have a point however that's not something I would consider doing as Bianca is still popular so there's no reason to turn her heel especially since they are so short on faces on Raw. It isn't the same thing since Bianca is different than Becky in not only as a champion but also alignment. Having a different champion does wonders for a feud. Also most wrestling companies go through similarities in having one contender face the champion with the same drive as prior when they faced another champion. It also isn't the same, as this thread has shown, it will help Liv more. All through this thread I've been seeing people say they don't believe in her and think she is done. If the Becky feud did her job then this wouldn't be said. It has a point. It doesn't even have to result in the cliche heel turn for someone, she can just do great and then keep doing great. There's nothing wrong with Liv doing great and still losing and then that leading up to her winning big instead of having some surprise win out of nowhere especially when you've got people in this thread saying negative things about her booking. |
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Post by theironyuppie on May 29, 2022 9:10:20 GMT -5
It's not necessarily her fault as it feels like a product of the Sasha/Naomi walk-out, but it's interesting that Bianca's currently feeling like a third-wheel in Becky/Asuka, to the extent of only being at ringside the last couple of weeks, not even doing guest commentary. They had no way of knowing but it's a shame they rushed the Sonya mini-feud as that could have been useful.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on May 29, 2022 11:44:30 GMT -5
🐐🐐land
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