You can erase five people from wrestling history

[Hobby Drifter]

You have the power to alter history by keeping five people from ever being involved in the wrestling business. All five go on to live comfortable lives, but never so much as get a passing mention in the industry. Who do you choose, and if you’d care to share, why?

[ChitownKnight]

Sunny, Benoit, Del Rio, Snuka, Austin Aeries

[wildojinx]

Comfortable lives? Then the Von Erich boys.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Apr 8, 2022 9:37:56 GMT -5 wildojinx said:

Comfortable lives? Then the Von Erich boys.

I'm going with Fritz, for the knock on effect on the boys.

Fritz
Sunny
Benoit
Moolah
Owen

[EvenBaldobombHasAJob]

Apr 8, 2022 8:25:23 GMT -5 ChitownKnight said:

Sunny, Benoit, Del Rio, Snuka, Austin Aeries

My list is almost the same, just replace Austin Aries with Moolah.

[thecrusherwi]

Apr 8, 2022 9:37:56 GMT -5 wildojinx said:

Comfortable lives? Then the Von Erich boys.

This is a good one outside of the obvious murderers and such (and most of those people probably would've been trouble wrestling or not). I wouldn't want to remove a life of potential excitement and luxury from someone who I just don't like creatively or otherwise. The Von Erich sons didn't get much from wrestling except a momentary high. Three of them were dead by 25, Kerry by 33, and Kevin had to live the rest of his live dealing with it all.

[ChitownKnight]

Apr 8, 2022 10:44:33 GMT -5 EvenBaldobombHasAJob said:

Apr 8, 2022 8:25:23 GMT -5 ChitownKnight said:

Sunny, Benoit, Del Rio, Snuka, Austin Aeries

My list is almost the same, just replace Austin Aries with Moolah.

Ahh yes completely forgot about her but she doesn’t deserve a comfortable life. I feel like the others (except maybe Del Rio) would of been good people if they weren’t exposed to chairshots and too much fame. But if moolah goes then all those women wouldn’t be pimped out

[jason1980s]

For the protection of those in wrestling I would say Benoit, Bradshaw, Sunny, Vince, New Jack. Though I do hope they wouldn't lead happy lives. But it would eliminate backstage bullying, attempted murders, assaults and really untouchable subjects.


But with others taking a different approach which seems like a good idea, for their protection I would say Owen, Nancy (Woman), Sweet Georgia Brown, Elizabeth, Scott Hall. I would say Jake but his later life has been pretty nice I think.

[ChitownKnight]

Apr 8, 2022 10:59:32 GMT -5 jason1980s said:

For the protection of those in wrestling I would say Benoit, Bradshaw, Sunny, Vince, New Jack. Though I do hope they wouldn't lead happy lives. But it would eliminate backstage bullying, attempted murders, assaults and really untouchable subjects.


But with others taking a different approach which seems like a good idea, for their protection I would say Owen, Nancy (Woman), Sweet Georgia Brown, Elizabeth, Scott Hall. I would say Jake but his later life has been pretty nice I think.

I mean without Vince, pro wrestling probably wouldn’t be what it is. People in that much power are most likely gonna be terrible money hungry people. Hell even if someone like DDP got power like Vince I’m sure he might lose a bit of morals

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Apr 8, 2022 11:03:45 GMT -5 ChitownKnight said:

Apr 8, 2022 10:59:32 GMT -5 jason1980s said:

For the protection of those in wrestling I would say Benoit, Bradshaw, Sunny, Vince, New Jack. Though I do hope they wouldn't lead happy lives. But it would eliminate backstage bullying, attempted murders, assaults and really untouchable subjects.


But with others taking a different approach which seems like a good idea, for their protection I would say Owen, Nancy (Woman), Sweet Georgia Brown, Elizabeth, Scott Hall. I would say Jake but his later life has been pretty nice I think.

I mean without Vince, pro wrestling probably wouldn’t be what it is. People in that much power are most likely gonna be terrible money hungry people. Hell even if someone like DDP got power like Vince I’m sure he might lose a bit of morals

Mentioning him again somehow in this thread, but say Fritz had been the one who won expansion?

[ChitownKnight]

Apr 8, 2022 11:07:58 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Apr 8, 2022 11:03:45 GMT -5 ChitownKnight said:

I mean without Vince, pro wrestling probably wouldn’t be what it is. People in that much power are most likely gonna be terrible money hungry people. Hell even if someone like DDP got power like Vince I’m sure he might lose a bit of morals

Mentioning him again somehow in this thread, but say Fritz had been the one who won expansion?

Yeah I think Tony Khan might be pro wrestlings only decent hearted promoter in its history lol.

[Jaws the Shark]

Apr 8, 2022 11:16:11 GMT -5 ChitownKnight said:

Apr 8, 2022 11:07:58 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Mentioning him again somehow in this thread, but say Fritz had been the one who won expansion?

Yeah I think Tony Khan might be pro wrestlings only decent hearted promoter in its history lol.

Tenryu was apparently quite a nice promoter, and Paul Boesch and Sam Muchnick are regarded as decent too, although that may only be in relation to other promoters, so…

[nihilismizhawt]

Apr 8, 2022 10:59:32 GMT -5 jason1980s said:

For the protection of those in wrestling I would say Benoit, Bradshaw, Sunny, Vince, New Jack. Though I do hope they wouldn't lead happy lives. But it would eliminate backstage bullying, attempted murders, assaults and really untouchable subjects.


But with others taking a different approach which seems like a good idea, for their protection I would say Owen, Nancy (Woman), Sweet Georgia Brown, Elizabeth, Scott Hall. I would say Jake but his later life has been pretty nice I think.

I agree with Vince McMahon. Wrestling would have been just fine without him trying to run everyone out of business for decades, protecting pedophiles, and booking 20 year old women to make out with him for storyline reasons. 

I'll add Fritz Von Erich, Mel Phillips, JBL and Owen Hart. 

[James Fabiano]

Apr 8, 2022 10:53:43 GMT -5 ChitownKnight said:

Apr 8, 2022 10:44:33 GMT -5 EvenBaldobombHasAJob said:

My list is almost the same, just replace Austin Aries with Moolah.

Ahh yes completely forgot about her but she doesn’t deserve a comfortable life. I feel like the others (except maybe Del Rio) would of been good people if they weren’t exposed to chairshots and too much fame. But if moolah goes then all those women wouldn’t be pimped out

Oh yeah, if it was true, then screw Lillian Ellison for sure, like I said. But there's people on both sides of the argument so it gets complicated for me. Then again it's true for EVERYTHING these days, even common sense stuff is totally tribal.

I made reference to this YouTube commenter, "A Little Reality," dunno who he is and how much weight his views have. Get ready, this will be a long one...

You are aware of that 12 of her former students and or women wrestlers that worked for her and or lived there have completely debunked the claims that were put out by the two women?

Excuse me, they all did admit that everyone had to pay a booking fee to Moolah and a certain cut of your pay if she was the one who broke you in as payment for the training.

A couple of them also mentioned that it was usually the girls who would tell each other if a certain promoter would give you how shall we say... an extra little something in your pay for giving them private wrestling lessons later on.

Not one of them was ever ordered forced or blackmailed into doing anything like that by Moolah herself . In fact the only time they generally heard something like that out of her mouth, it was told her them that they were likely going to be propositioned by the promoter as a heads-up or warning ahead of time to expect it.

this channel here has 11 of Moolah's girls and the son of Sweet Georgia Brown all saying that it's about 90-95% either made up or a gross misrepresentation / exaggeration. youtu.be/jPmrHYnbX9k

You are right it is kind of telling none of these accusations came out while she was alive. Sweet Georgia Brown's son said his mom would bring him around Moolah and his mom never had anything bad to say about moolah. ( his mom apparently was sending money back for the family, and that it was his family members including the sister that made allegations about the stuff happening to her mother, that would be the real people that ask what happened to the money. Jumping on the bandwagon and saying it was Moolah was a good way to cover their own asses)

Side note Exotic Adrian Street's wife (well they married in 2014 after being together since the late 60s iirc) Miss Linda from 1980 to the late 80s when it opened up was probably one of the only women in the United States working regularly not affiliated with Moolah. Although she was mainly his valet was also an extremely good woman wrestler and she would substitute in anytime the women were there and somebody didn't make it, or in mixed tag matches. ( she was actually a far better in-ring worker than 1/2 of the men in the territories, and probably tougher too LOL )


The parts of it that are unquestionably true and no one denies=

Moolah was a ruthless freaking businesswoman. She was the boss as far as it went for women's wrestling and she did whatever she had to do to protect her Monopoly.

As far as pimping them to the promoters I forgot who it was that was mentioning it, it was usually one of the other women wrestlers but Moolah as well would sometimes mention to you if you were going to a territory where you were likely to be "offered a job on the side" by the promoter. Was never said to them as implying that you have to go do that, more of a heads-up you were going to be offered so the girls would not to be caught off-guard and expect it. ( if you did or didn't it was your own business)

Yes, Moolah got a cut from all the women as a booking fee and yes indeed if she trained you and broke you in, as payment for the training Etc you had to give her I think it was an additional 10 percentage of your earnings for so many years.

That wasn't a Fabulous Moolah invention though, I've heard a few older wrestlers mentioned that was the common Arrangement back in the day. The guys breaking didn't have much if any money and the idea of a wrestling school with pretty much unheard of, there's only a few people around that really did a lot of training. You usually learned from somebody on the road.
Ric Flair mentioned in his book=

"I shook Verne's hand and started to leave. "Oh, one more thing," he said, slipping a document across his desk. It was a contract, guaranteeing that Verne would receive ten percent of my earnings for the next five years. Believe it or not, I wasn't offended by the ges ture; Verne was the one who had taught me how to be a professional wrestler. I was ready to sign the document right there, but Verne said, "Take it with you, have a look at it, and send it back."

When I got down to Charlotte, I asked the pro moter, Jim Crockett Jr., if this was standard prac tice in the wrestling business. "We don't give out contracts like that," he replied, sounding a little shocked, as he read through the document. "No body owns five years of your life."

Crockett recommended that I tear up the con tract and send it back to Verne, but I couldn't do that. He had put in time and effort to train me. He had certainly earned something."

Eventually, Verne called to see if I'd signed the contract. I told him how I felt-"I don't think it's right," I explained-but I was willing to pay him a still-substantial flat fee of $2,500 (Crockett's advice as well; "Send him a check for what you think he deserves").

That seemed to be okay with Verne. We remained friendly, and even when I was touring the world as NWA Champion, I occasionally returned to the AWA to make special appearances on his"

Even after Vince told Fabulous Moolah he was going to start hiring other women, out of respect he would still give Moolah a little something when those women were on the card as a sign of respect basically.

The whole thing with Wendy Richter wasn't Fabulous Moolah's doing. Wendy was asking for a fairly absurd large amount of money and threatening not to drop the belt until she had a contract guaranteeing it. Vince sent Moolah in there as spider lady, because she was tough enough that she was going to be able to pin Wendy for the three count and get the belt off of her one way or another.

Obviously it didn't happen regular basis, but that also wasn't uncommon back in the territories. They would bring in Jack Brisco, Harley Race, Danny Hodge somebody like that if there was a problem with a guy not wanting to do business to make sure one way or another the guy was going to do business.

[James Fabiano]

Anyway I think the idea was, people whose lives would be better without wrestling. Not having to face the "sickness" as Roddy put it of becoming famous. Am I right?

[Beets by Schrute]

Sunny
Miss Elizabeth
Owen Hart
Chris Benoit
Droz

[sdoyle7798]

Apr 8, 2022 10:44:33 GMT -5 EvenBaldobombHasAJob said:

Apr 8, 2022 8:25:23 GMT -5 ChitownKnight said:

Sunny, Benoit, Del Rio, Snuka, Austin Aeries

My list is almost the same, just replace Austin Aries with Moolah.

If you replace Aries with Moolah, then I don't give a shit if that whole list lives comfortable lives.

[mcmahonfan85]

Apr 8, 2022 11:16:11 GMT -5 ChitownKnight said:

Apr 8, 2022 11:07:58 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Mentioning him again somehow in this thread, but say Fritz had been the one who won expansion?

Yeah I think Tony Khan might be pro wrestlings only decent hearted promoter in its history lol.

talk to people who worked for Cary Silkin

[Nickybojelais]

After recently watching the entire run of WWF shows from 1997-2001 i'm going to say Test, The Headbangers, Dlo Brown and Big Show.

If those 5 were ever a Survivor Series team they should be called "The Black Hole of Entertainment"

[Deleted]

Vince Russo
Chris Benoit
Sunny
New Jack
Droz