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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2022 14:48:30 GMT -5
Goddamn am I sick of this narrative that Ambrose was misused. The dude was a WWE World Champion. He won the Shield 3 way. He f***ing PINNED CENA CLEAN! I've always said he had a really good WWE career that most guys would kill for, but it also never felt like he was able to reach his full potential there.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
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Post by Nosnorb on Apr 22, 2022 15:20:26 GMT -5
Goddamn am I sick of this narrative that Ambrose was misused. The dude was a WWE World Champion. He won the Shield 3 way. He f***ing PINNED CENA CLEAN! It's also a true narrative. Him pinning Cena clean and winning the WWE Championship and The Shield 3 way (which probably wouldn't have happened if Roman pissed clean) doesn't change that he was booked woefully after the breakup of The Shield.
Just look at his PPV record between Money in the Bank 2014 and Money in the Bank 2016. When it came to the crunch, more often than not Dean Ambrose came up short. WWE booked him as a choke artist for two years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2022 15:27:20 GMT -5
I'll go to my grave believing (as a matter of fact, I want it on my headstone) it should've been Ambrose vs. HHH at WM 32. The dude from the streets fighting his way to the main event of WM against The COO, Ass Licker, and One True Diamond of this Business™ is a way more interesting story than what we got.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 22, 2022 15:30:48 GMT -5
HHH vs. Ambrose at Roadblock was by far a better match than HHH vs. Roman and Dean vs. Brock at Mania that year.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2022 17:42:47 GMT -5
Goddamn am I sick of this narrative that Ambrose was misused. The dude was a WWE World Champion. He won the Shield 3 way. He f***ing PINNED CENA CLEAN! So? He held the WWE Title for the same amount of days as Del Rio did. He pinned Cena clean on a random SD rather than a big ppv event like when Reign and Rollins beat him. Yeah, Ambrose got some things but that wasn't near to the level he should have. Say he was WWE Champion for 6 months, say he had a huge heel run, say he beat Cena at a Royal Rumble. Say he bleeds against Lesnar and he gets Brock's respect. Ambrose was an A- level talent for the years he was here but with great booking he could have been A+. They fumbled the ball. Just because he did some cool stuff doesn't mean that's the max that they could have done with him. He as a talent just turned the crap they gave him into gold because he's great like that.
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Apr 22, 2022 17:49:37 GMT -5
The Orton thing pisses me off to this day because they didn't even do the obvious cool thing to do in that match: the F5 setup into RKO counter.
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Post by peaches1 on Apr 22, 2022 18:12:15 GMT -5
The Orton thing pisses me off to this day because they didn't even do the obvious cool thing to do in that match: the F5 setup into RKO counter. So obvious a spot It makes me wonder if they rehearsed it and it looked too bad to attempt in front of a crowd, leading to Plan B "Let's just have Brock legit beat Randy bloody."
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Apr 22, 2022 18:13:45 GMT -5
The Orton thing pisses me off to this day because they didn't even do the obvious cool thing to do in that match: the F5 setup into RKO counter. Maybe that's why they decided to do the Punt Tease instead.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 22, 2022 18:14:55 GMT -5
Goddamn am I sick of this narrative that Ambrose was misused. The dude was a WWE World Champion. He won the Shield 3 way. He f***ing PINNED CENA CLEAN! So? He held the WWE Title for the same amount of days as Del Rio did. He pinned Cena clean on a random SD rather than a big ppv event like when Reign and Rollins beat him. Yeah, Ambrose got some things but that wasn't near to the level he should have. Say he was WWE Champion for 6 months, say he had a huge heel run, say he beat Cena at a Royal Rumble. Say he bleeds against Lesnar and he gets Brock's respect. Ambrose was an A- level talent for the years he was here but with great booking he could have been A+. They fumbled the ball. Just because he did some cool stuff doesn't mean that's the max that they could have done with him. He as a talent just turned the crap they gave him into gold because he's great like that. But he wasn't. He is not an A+ talent. And that's ok. He's good, very good, and on occasion even great. But he was never gonna be the face of the WWE. And he didn't deserve it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2022 18:27:34 GMT -5
So? He held the WWE Title for the same amount of days as Del Rio did. He pinned Cena clean on a random SD rather than a big ppv event like when Reign and Rollins beat him. Yeah, Ambrose got some things but that wasn't near to the level he should have. Say he was WWE Champion for 6 months, say he had a huge heel run, say he beat Cena at a Royal Rumble. Say he bleeds against Lesnar and he gets Brock's respect. Ambrose was an A- level talent for the years he was here but with great booking he could have been A+. They fumbled the ball. Just because he did some cool stuff doesn't mean that's the max that they could have done with him. He as a talent just turned the crap they gave him into gold because he's great like that. But he wasn't. He is not an A+ talent. And that's ok. He's good, very good, and on occasion even great. But he was never gonna be the face of the WWE. And he didn't deserve it. "Deserve it?" Nah get out of here with that. Almost everyone on the roster "deserves" to be the face if they're given the shot. We can't say someone doesn't deserve it just because we don't like them especially someone like Ambrose who was doing the most matches on a year to year basis for a few years. If a guy who does whatever you tell him to do no matter what, a guy who does 2 house shows a day if asked, if a guy who works the most matches in a company doesn't deserve to be a face, if this is the same guy that can give you seriousness, comedy, singles star, tag star, can go in the ring, cut promos, has a defined character. Again, this is the same guy that's giving your company the most matches in a year.
If that guy doesn't "deserve" to be the face then I don't know who does.
And nah, I highly disagree with you due to the fact that we see what kind of great character and wrestler he's been in AEW. We've heard the interviews from him, we've seen his NJPW stuff, we've seen his FCW and indy work, we've seen comments from others. If all of that still doesn't make you think he can go higher and be an A+ talent I don't know what to tell you. It's pretty clear the company fumbled the ball with him.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 22, 2022 18:39:30 GMT -5
I should vote Ambrose but the fact is, Randy Orton got his brains turned into pudding solely for a complete wet fart of a worked shoot to rebuild the credibility of a man who pissed dirty after a UFC return so embarrassing that the fact he wasn't even clean during it is I think a way bigger factor for the lack of UFC Brock since than USADA could ever be. And then nobody in the real world f***ing cared anyway the next day because the mainstream didn't give a shit and the wrestling world got told how the boys got worked and it became an even bigger shit show. The worst Ambrose did is look like a chump.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Apr 22, 2022 18:54:50 GMT -5
Ambrose looked like a straight jobber at WrestleMania when he could’ve been at his peak.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 22, 2022 18:56:01 GMT -5
But he wasn't. He is not an A+ talent. And that's ok. He's good, very good, and on occasion even great. But he was never gonna be the face of the WWE. And he didn't deserve it. "Deserve it?" Nah get out of here with that. Almost everyone on the roster "deserves" to be the face if they're given the shot. We can't say someone doesn't deserve it just because we don't like them especially someone like Ambrose who was doing the most matches on a year to year basis for a few years. If a guy who does whatever you tell him to do no matter what, a guy who does 2 house shows a day if asked, if a guy who works the most matches in a company doesn't deserve to be a face, if this is the same guy that can give you seriousness, comedy, singles star, tag star, can go in the ring, cut promos, has a defined character. Again, this is the same guy that's giving your company the most matches in a year.
If that guy doesn't "deserve" to be the face then I don't know who does.
And nah, I highly disagree with you due to the fact that we see what kind of great character and wrestler he's been in AEW. We've heard the interviews from him, we've seen his NJPW stuff, we've seen his FCW and indy work, we've seen comments from others. If all of that still doesn't make you think he can go higher and be an A+ talent I don't know what to tell you. It's pretty clear the company fumbled the ball with him.
Even when he was back in WWE, I can't think of anyone whose absence due to injury was more noticeable than Ambrose's. Even given crap material, he was so much and so good that you could see a hole in the show when he was gone. And that's something you can say for a top guy the whole show is booked around, sure. But Ambrose wasn't that guy. He wasn't an absent main character, but he was so good that you had to take notice and miss him. Dude was as A+ as anyone else from that era could have ever seen, easy, and he's proven it every minute he's been out of WWE. Only bigger deal in terms of losses, fired or walked, from the company in the past few years has been Danielson. Dean Ambrose was an established, over main event star. No what ifs like a guy like Swerve had. He was there, he was killing it, he was a proven success. They soured him and drove him off, and the fact it wasn't even because he wasn't getting pushed hard enough is all the more reason he should have been pushed harder. Dude ate a whole mountain of shit and nobody even knew he hated every second of it because he was just that f***ing good.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 22, 2022 19:48:48 GMT -5
"Deserve it?" Nah get out of here with that. Almost everyone on the roster "deserves" to be the face if they're given the shot. We can't say someone doesn't deserve it just because we don't like them especially someone like Ambrose who was doing the most matches on a year to year basis for a few years. If a guy who does whatever you tell him to do no matter what, a guy who does 2 house shows a day if asked, if a guy who works the most matches in a company doesn't deserve to be a face, if this is the same guy that can give you seriousness, comedy, singles star, tag star, can go in the ring, cut promos, has a defined character. Again, this is the same guy that's giving your company the most matches in a year.
If that guy doesn't "deserve" to be the face then I don't know who does.
And nah, I highly disagree with you due to the fact that we see what kind of great character and wrestler he's been in AEW. We've heard the interviews from him, we've seen his NJPW stuff, we've seen his FCW and indy work, we've seen comments from others. If all of that still doesn't make you think he can go higher and be an A+ talent I don't know what to tell you. It's pretty clear the company fumbled the ball with him.
Even when he was back in WWE, I can't think of anyone whose absence due to injury was more noticeable than Ambrose's. Even given crap material, he was so much and so good that you could see a hole in the show when he was gone. And that's something you can say for a top guy the whole show is booked around, sure. But Ambrose wasn't that guy. He wasn't an absent main character, but he was so good that you had to take notice and miss him. Dude was as A+ as anyone else from that era could have ever seen, easy, and he's proven it every minute he's been out of WWE. Only bigger deal in terms of losses, fired or walked, from the company in the past few years has been Danielson. Dean Ambrose was an established, over main event star. No what ifs like a guy like Swerve had. He was there, he was killing it, he was a proven success. They soured him and drove him off, and the fact it wasn't even because he wasn't getting pushed hard enough is all the more reason he should have been pushed harder. Dude ate a whole mountain of shit and nobody even knew he hated every second of it because he was just that f***ing good. even when Roman was injured / wellnessed there wasn't as gaping a hole than when Ambrose wasn't there.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 22, 2022 20:43:29 GMT -5
But he wasn't. He is not an A+ talent. And that's ok. He's good, very good, and on occasion even great. But he was never gonna be the face of the WWE. And he didn't deserve it. "Deserve it?" Nah get out of here with that. Almost everyone on the roster "deserves" to be the face if they're given the shot. We can't say someone doesn't deserve it just because we don't like them especially someone like Ambrose who was doing the most matches on a year to year basis for a few years. If a guy who does whatever you tell him to do no matter what, a guy who does 2 house shows a day if asked, if a guy who works the most matches in a company doesn't deserve to be a face, if this is the same guy that can give you seriousness, comedy, singles star, tag star, can go in the ring, cut promos, has a defined character. Again, this is the same guy that's giving your company the most matches in a year.
If that guy doesn't "deserve" to be the face then I don't know who does.
And nah, I highly disagree with you due to the fact that we see what kind of great character and wrestler he's been in AEW. We've heard the interviews from him, we've seen his NJPW stuff, we've seen his FCW and indy work, we've seen comments from others. If all of that still doesn't make you think he can go higher and be an A+ talent I don't know what to tell you. It's pretty clear the company fumbled the ball with him.
If you serious think Ambrose is an A+ talent, then we'll never agree.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 22, 2022 21:16:32 GMT -5
So? He held the WWE Title for the same amount of days as Del Rio did. He pinned Cena clean on a random SD rather than a big ppv event like when Reign and Rollins beat him. Yeah, Ambrose got some things but that wasn't near to the level he should have. Say he was WWE Champion for 6 months, say he had a huge heel run, say he beat Cena at a Royal Rumble. Say he bleeds against Lesnar and he gets Brock's respect. Ambrose was an A- level talent for the years he was here but with great booking he could have been A+. They fumbled the ball. Just because he did some cool stuff doesn't mean that's the max that they could have done with him. He as a talent just turned the crap they gave him into gold because he's great like that. But he wasn't. He is not an A+ talent. And that's ok. He's good, very good, and on occasion even great. But he was never gonna be the face of the WWE. And he didn't deserve it. If we gonna go by deserve it,Ambrose deserved much more than Roman by being more over than him his whole stay there and even drawing more on b-level house shows than Roman
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 22, 2022 21:26:02 GMT -5
But he wasn't. He is not an A+ talent. And that's ok. He's good, very good, and on occasion even great. But he was never gonna be the face of the WWE. And he didn't deserve it. If we gonna go by deserve it,Ambrose deserved much more than Roman by being more over than him his whole stay there and even drawing more on b-level house shows than Roman Yeah, Dean was more over with the live crowd, had better more varied matches, and flat out drew better than him... they absolutely should have pivoted to Dean as the number one face at least temporarily.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,923
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Post by Nosnorb on Apr 22, 2022 22:04:25 GMT -5
If you serious think Ambrose is an A+ talent, then we'll never agree. You said he wasn't misued. How Dean was booked after The Shield spilt says otherwise.
Lets look at the PPV record of Dean Ambrose, from Money in the Bank 2014 to Money in the Bank 2016. The record speaks for itself.
2014
Money in the Bank - Fails to win MitB Briefcase Battleground - loses to Seth Rollins by forfeit after Triple H has Dean ejected from arena for fighting Seth backstage Summerslam - loses to Seth Rollins in Lumberjack match Hell in a Cell - loses to Seth Rollins
Survivor Series - loses to Bray Wyatt via DQ for using steel chair TLC - Loses to Bray Wyatt
2015
Royal Rumble - In titular match, eliminated by Big Show and Kane as almost every other top face was Fastlane - loses to Wade Barrett after DQ for kicking too much ass Wrestlemania - In IC title ladder match, fails to win IC title Extreme Rules - Beats Luke Harper in a Chicago Street Fight Payback - Fails to win WWE Title in Fatal 4 way Elimination Chamber - Beats Seth Rollins by DQ, fails to win WWE Title Money in the Bank - Loses to Seth Rollins, fails to win WWE Title Summerslam - Him and Roman beat Bray Wyatt and Luke Harper in Tag Team Match Night of Champions - Wyatt, Strowman and Harper beat Reigns, Ambrose and Jericho after Strowman chokes out Jericho Survivor Series - Beats Owens in semi final to determine new WWE Champion, Loses to Reigns in final TLC - Beats Kevin Owens to win IC title
2016
Royal Rumble - Beats Kevin Owens in Last Man Standing match to retain IC title, Eliminated by Triple H in titular match Fastlane - Pinned by Reigns in Triple Threat to determine #1 contender for WWE Title Roadblock - Loses to Triple H in WWE Title Match Wrestlemania - Loses to Brock Lesnar Payback - Beats Chris Jericho Extreme Rules - Beats Chris Jericho in Clockwork Orange House of Fun Asylum Match
That record, is quite frankly, woeful. It took Dean till April 2015 to win a match on PPV and failed to win the WWE Title in 5 attempts (not counting the 2016 rumble). For a top face, that is wretched. And if WWE didn't see him as one, then you don't set up a guy to fall short so many times.
Dude was misused. To claim otherwise is quite frankly, bollocks.
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Post by I'm A Pop Sensation on Apr 22, 2022 22:09:27 GMT -5
All the legends giving Ambrose weapons as a way of "Passing The Hardcore Torch" to Ambrose and then coming out with said weapons in a little red wagon looked like it would have been a big match feel and I was looking forward to it
and then the match happened.....
Yeah Ambrose totally had the more devastating loss but Orton getting bloodied up is on the same level but I totally say Ambrose since it WAS on a Wrestlemania Card
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2022 22:40:47 GMT -5
If you serious think Ambrose is an A+ talent, then we'll never agree. Yeah we won't lol. It's all good. I said he's A+ because he was that great with his booking so if you give him good booking (and see what he's done outside of WWE) then yeah, it makes sense. Either way if you don't agree then hey we got nothing else to talk about.
Not just you but any others who I've seen over the past few years, I don't see how anyone can say he wasn't misused. That Nosnorb post with his record is insane.
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