J is Justice
Patti Mayonnaise
Will now be grateful.
Hi.
Posts: 31,903
Member is Online
|
Post by J is Justice on Aug 30, 2022 20:15:08 GMT -5
I laughed out loud at Aliyah and Raquel's entrance for some reason. Twerk, flex, spank and hug is the new clap, spin and shimmy.
|
|
|
Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 30, 2022 22:00:06 GMT -5
Let's not overlook the faces galloping to go after Bayley: I didn't watch Raw so this is my first time seeing this and this is one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen. What makes it is how perfectly lined up The Three Wise Babyfaces are as they are chasing her. Like they are doing some sort of synchronized march or something. Maybe they are going to repackage them as the female Truth Commission.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2022 23:13:40 GMT -5
I have no f***ing idea how Aliyah's stayed in WWE this long. Like, it's seriously one of the greatest wrestling mysteries of our time. God bless her. YOU DESERVE IT! (clap x5)
|
|
06vwgti
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,796
Member is Online
|
Post by 06vwgti on Aug 30, 2022 23:21:53 GMT -5
Let's not overlook the faces galloping to go after Bayley: I didn't watch Raw so this is my first time seeing this and this is one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen. What makes it is how perfectly lined up The Three Wise Babyfaces are as they are chasing her. Like they are doing some sort of synchronized march or something. Maybe they are going to repackage them as the female Truth Commission. If Vince was still around, I would have chalked it up to a Vinceism on how to run to the ring. Though I don't understand why Bianca would have her belt on while chasing Bayley...
|
|
|
Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 31, 2022 0:01:56 GMT -5
I have no f***ing idea how Aliyah's stayed in WWE this long. Like, it's seriously one of the greatest wrestling mysteries of our time. God bless her. YOU DESERVE IT! (clap x5) As far as women goes she has to be the luckiest in company history right? Survives numerous roster cuts and stays employed for years despite not really being good anything and then on top of it wins a tag title while also getting the winning pinfall. I mean I guess you could argue maybe Tamina but she was around longer then Aliyah before they give her a tag title win.
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Aug 31, 2022 1:01:37 GMT -5
I have no f***ing idea how Aliyah's stayed in WWE this long. Like, it's seriously one of the greatest wrestling mysteries of our time. God bless her. YOU DESERVE IT! (clap x5) As far as women goes she has to be the luckiest in company history right? Survives numerous roster cuts and stays employed for years despite not really being good anything and then on top of it wins a tag title while also getting the winning pinfall. I mean I guess you could argue maybe Tamina but she was around longer then Aliyah before they give her a tag title win. Every company needs ditch-diggers. I mean, you can fill up the rosters with all the potential world champions, workrate dynamos and charisma machines you want, the actual role of enhancement talents and lower carders doesn’t go away. Like, literally ever. You just end up shoehorning those great talents into those roles and diminishing their potential. Until and unless we suddenly become OK with that happening, and judging how people react when people like Iyo Sky lose but one single match, we’re clearly not, the roster will continue to need people like Aliyah to take the losses you don’t want your favourites to take.
|
|
|
Post by Banjo Is Broken on Aug 31, 2022 1:03:21 GMT -5
Seems like they were just hoping for an underdog pop and it didn't hit. Happens It didn't hit because Aliyah is absolute hot garbage, and everyone but creative seems to realize that. She's like...utterly wretched at every single aspect of wrestling. The worst part is she's been in the company since 2015 and hasn't improved even one iota since then. Historians in 100 years are going to look back at this moment and just be utterly baffled at how something like this is even possible, because it's so stupid. Okay dude we f***ing get it. You hate her.
|
|
|
Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 31, 2022 1:08:19 GMT -5
As far as women goes she has to be the luckiest in company history right? Survives numerous roster cuts and stays employed for years despite not really being good anything and then on top of it wins a tag title while also getting the winning pinfall. I mean I guess you could argue maybe Tamina but she was around longer then Aliyah before they give her a tag title win. Every company needs ditch-diggers. I mean, you can fill up the rosters with all the potential world champions, workrate dynamos and charisma machines you want, the actual role of enhancement talents and lower carders doesn’t go away. Like, literally ever. You just end up shoehorning those great talents into those roles and diminishing their potential. Until and unless we suddenly become OK with that happening, and judging how people react when people like Iyo Sky lose but one single match, we’re clearly not, the roster will continue to need people like Aliyah to take the losses you don’t want your favourites to take. I agree 100%. You always need people on the roster who can do jobs. However with her at least since she's been on the main roster they haven't used her at all in that kind of role. At first she kept getting lucky wins, then was never used, then there was that weird feud with Lacey Evans where they would always be advertised to wrestle but then never di before it was dropped due to whatever is going on with Lacey, and now she's one half of the tag team champions. I'm fine with keeping your Aliyah's and Dana Brooke's around as carpenter's to do jobs so the girls with more value or potential value don't have to but the problem is they never use them in that capacity.
|
|
PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,639
|
Post by PKO on Aug 31, 2022 6:06:03 GMT -5
I have no f***ing idea how Aliyah's stayed in WWE this long. Like, it's seriously one of the greatest wrestling mysteries of our time. God bless her. YOU DESERVE IT! (clap x5) I don’t know how she ever got out of NXT. Six years she was there, with no visible improvement. I’d say she was generally actively bad in the ring, botching her own moves or badly selling her opponents moves, making her useless even as enhancement talent. I actually think she’s looked the best she ever has on the main roster.
|
|
|
Post by PTBartman on Aug 31, 2022 7:48:37 GMT -5
I have no f***ing idea how Aliyah's stayed in WWE this long. Like, it's seriously one of the greatest wrestling mysteries of our time. God bless her. YOU DESERVE IT! (clap x5) As far as women goes she has to be the luckiest in company history right? Survives numerous roster cuts and stays employed for years despite not really being good anything and then on top of it wins a tag title while also getting the winning pinfall. I mean I guess you could argue maybe Tamina but she was around longer then Aliyah before they give her a tag title win. She possese the most powerful artifact in WWE history, Funaki's Fotos
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 12:33:52 GMT -5
Dave on WOR about the match last night: He said that WWE is incredibly high on Raquel right now. I guess they think she has mainstream crossover star potential. He also mentioned that Triple H wanted to book a surprise ending last night just for the sake of it. And that they knew that people wanted to see Sky/Kai vs Sasha/Naomi, and that its the money match. But WWE isn't super interested in it apparently. They are more focused on getting Raquel over, and Aliyah is along for the ride. I wanted to listen for myself and Meltzer's exact words were the following: "I don't think anyone expected Raquel and Aliyah to win that match, but when they did that nearfall I figured they'd be kicking out for sure and then they didn't kick out. There's nothing wrong with a surprise...They are trying to get Raquel Rodriguez, formally Gonzalez, over as a big star. Aliyah's, I don't know, along for the ride, I suppose...I think this match was to do a surprise and nothing else. Sometimes you do that. When you look at the big money, which team should win in that situation, it's pretty clear that Kai and Sky should have done that. It's because if you think about it logically, it wouldn't happen. (I think he meant that logically Kai and Sky wouldn't lose) Sometimes you surprise people...The reality is picking the wrong guy, you make that mistake in another time and it has disastrous results. Today, it has very minor results." For what it's worth, I got nothing from the actual audio and/or the context of Meltzer's words to suggest that WWE isn't super interested in Sky/Kai vs. Sasha/Naomi, nor did he say they're more interested in Raquel over Dakota and Io. He never said either thing. He acknowledges they want to get her over as a big star and that the result confused him, though. The whole Raquel thing is just wild to me. No one can say I've always had it out for her or anything because I WAS cool with them putting the NXT Title on her and I always say she's decent in the ring, but I just don't see "big star" with her at all.
|
|
|
Post by mistery on Aug 31, 2022 12:40:20 GMT -5
I wanted to listen for myself and Meltzer's exact words were the following: "I don't think anyone expected Raquel and Aliyah to win that match, but when they did that nearfall I figured they'd be kicking out for sure and then they didn't kick out. There's nothing wrong with a surprise...They are trying to get Raquel Rodriguez, formally Gonzalez, over as a big star. Aliyah's, I don't know, along for the ride, I suppose...I think this match was to do a surprise and nothing else. Sometimes you do that. When you look at the big money, which team should win in that situation, it's pretty clear that Kai and Sky should have done that. It's because if you think about it logically, it wouldn't happen. (I think he meant that logically Kai and Sky wouldn't lose) Sometimes you surprise people...The reality is picking the wrong guy, you make that mistake in another time and it has disastrous results. Today, it has very minor results." For what it's worth, I got nothing from the actual audio and/or the context of Meltzer's words to suggest that WWE isn't super interested in Sky/Kai vs. Sasha/Naomi, nor did he say they're more interested in Raquel over Dakota and Io. He never said either thing. He acknowledges they want to get her over as a big star and that the result confused him, though. The whole Raquel thing is just wild to me. No one can say I've always had it out for her or anything because I WAS cool with them putting the NXT Title on her and I always say she's decent in the ring, but I just don't see "big star" with her at all. There is a lot of gossip that Triple H really seems to like women built like Chyna. Which would explain A LOT about how Rhea, Shayna, and Raquel were pushed. And while Raquel is okay in the ring, her most defining traits is that she is so very stupid irl, and her back. Black and Gold NXT only really started cratering once Triple H put the titles on Kross and Raquel, because both are idiots in real life and also boring as sin to watch.
|
|
|
Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Aug 31, 2022 14:07:40 GMT -5
I wanted to listen for myself and Meltzer's exact words were the following: "I don't think anyone expected Raquel and Aliyah to win that match, but when they did that nearfall I figured they'd be kicking out for sure and then they didn't kick out. There's nothing wrong with a surprise...They are trying to get Raquel Rodriguez, formally Gonzalez, over as a big star. Aliyah's, I don't know, along for the ride, I suppose...I think this match was to do a surprise and nothing else. Sometimes you do that. When you look at the big money, which team should win in that situation, it's pretty clear that Kai and Sky should have done that. It's because if you think about it logically, it wouldn't happen. (I think he meant that logically Kai and Sky wouldn't lose) Sometimes you surprise people...The reality is picking the wrong guy, you make that mistake in another time and it has disastrous results. Today, it has very minor results." For what it's worth, I got nothing from the actual audio and/or the context of Meltzer's words to suggest that WWE isn't super interested in Sky/Kai vs. Sasha/Naomi, nor did he say they're more interested in Raquel over Dakota and Io. He never said either thing. He acknowledges they want to get her over as a big star and that the result confused him, though. The whole Raquel thing is just wild to me. No one can say I've always had it out for her or anything because I WAS cool with them putting the NXT Title on her and I always say she's decent in the ring, but I just don't see "big star" with her at all. Yeah. I think it's hard because it's entirely possible that what Triple H thinks "big star" means and what Meltzer means when he uses that term could be two different things. I don't think you build the division around her but I certainly see merit in using her as one of your top 5-7 women and occasionally giving her a title run. If they're trying to attract a younger, female audience, I get why Raquel is appealing. You want women of all shapes, stature, and backgrounds on the roster.
|
|
|
Post by mistery on Aug 31, 2022 14:26:24 GMT -5
The whole Raquel thing is just wild to me. No one can say I've always had it out for her or anything because I WAS cool with them putting the NXT Title on her and I always say she's decent in the ring, but I just don't see "big star" with her at all. Yeah. I think it's hard because it's entirely possible that what Triple H thinks "big star" means and what Meltzer means when he uses that term could be two different things. I don't think you build the division around her but I certainly see merit in using her as one of your top 5-7 women and occasionally giving her a title run. If they're trying to attract a younger, female audience, I get why Raquel is appealing. You want women of all shapes, stature, and backgrounds on the roster. The thing is, Raquel isn't even attracting a younger female audience if her stint as the women's champ on NXT Black and Gold was any indication. Iyo/Io was like catnip for younger women (her segments did especially well with women during the Black and Gold era). And once Raquel won the title, she drove a lot of them away, due to a combination of being a generic WWE produced star, and her being pretty visible during the pandemic about her political views. And ratings reflected that, as female viewership took a pretty significant hit once Raquel was positioned as the top star, especially compared to the previous champs. This just seems like Triple H really has a thing for Raquel and he sees her as a big star, but the audience at large doesn't. Let's not forget how terrible she was during that women's MITB match either. And that's not even talking about Aliyah who despite being in WWE for roughly 8 years, has not improved at all. And it shows during her matches where she either has to spend the vast majority of it selling (poorly at that), getting gassed like 3 minutes in, and generally being just awful at every aspect of the business. Even Vince was smart enough to realize that Aliyah is absolute garbage and shouldn't be wrestling in anything longer than 3 minute matches on TV (where she gets squashed). And in the case of Raquel being a top star, it's hard to see that. Not counting already established stars on the main roster: Iyo, Dakota, Shotzi, and Liv (despite the damage that was done) all have way more upside than her, in pretty much every single aspect. And that's just main roster.
|
|
|
Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Aug 31, 2022 15:18:20 GMT -5
Yeah. I think it's hard because it's entirely possible that what Triple H thinks "big star" means and what Meltzer means when he uses that term could be two different things. I don't think you build the division around her but I certainly see merit in using her as one of your top 5-7 women and occasionally giving her a title run. If they're trying to attract a younger, female audience, I get why Raquel is appealing. You want women of all shapes, stature, and backgrounds on the roster. The thing is, Raquel isn't even attracting a younger female audience if her stint as the women's champ on NXT Black and Gold was any indication. Iyo/Io was like catnip for younger women (her segments did especially well with women during the Black and Gold era). And once Raquel won the title, she drove a lot of them away, due to a combination of being a generic WWE produced star, and her being pretty visible during the pandemic about her political views. And ratings reflected that, as female viewership took a pretty significant hit once Raquel was positioned as the top star, especially compared to the previous champs. This just seems like Triple H really has a thing for Raquel and he sees her as a big star, but the audience at large doesn't. Let's not forget how terrible she was during that women's MITB match either. And that's not even talking about Aliyah who despite being in WWE for roughly 8 years, has not improved at all. And it shows during her matches where she either has to spend the vast majority of it selling (poorly at that), getting gassed like 3 minutes in, and generally being just awful at every aspect of the business. Even Vince was smart enough to realize that Aliyah is absolute garbage and shouldn't be wrestling in anything longer than 3 minute matches on TV (where she gets squashed). And in the case of Raquel being a top star, it's hard to see that. Not counting already established stars on the main roster: Iyo, Dakota, Shotzi, and Liv (despite the damage that was done) all have way more upside than her, in pretty much every single aspect. And that's just main roster. In looking at minute-by-minutes for NXT vs. AEW, it's clear that they were dividing the same audience and that some of that audience doesn't watch main roster WWE. For instance, NXT killed AEW the night Io fought Sasha, so it's clear she's a draw to that audience (and Sasha probably helped). The demo for NXT 2.0. has cratered when compared to peak Black and Gold and that's probably due to them deemphasizing women's wrestling a bit and the way in which they're presenting women, for the lack of a better term, being more sleazy. My point is that it's hard to say that Raquel won't succeed with the main roster audience because the die-hard wrestling audience that watched NXT wasn't as crazy about her. It does feel like there's some difference in audience. I'm with you that Io is someone they should get behind, but I think it's hard to say that Raquel is someone they shouldn't invest in based on data at a time when NXT was cooling down as a brand entirely.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 31, 2022 17:36:28 GMT -5
The thing is, Raquel isn't even attracting a younger female audience if her stint as the women's champ on NXT Black and Gold was any indication. Iyo/Io was like catnip for younger women (her segments did especially well with women during the Black and Gold era). And once Raquel won the title, she drove a lot of them away, due to a combination of being a generic WWE produced star, and her being pretty visible during the pandemic about her political views. And ratings reflected that, as female viewership took a pretty significant hit once Raquel was positioned as the top star, especially compared to the previous champs. This just seems like Triple H really has a thing for Raquel and he sees her as a big star, but the audience at large doesn't. Let's not forget how terrible she was during that women's MITB match either. And that's not even talking about Aliyah who despite being in WWE for roughly 8 years, has not improved at all. And it shows during her matches where she either has to spend the vast majority of it selling (poorly at that), getting gassed like 3 minutes in, and generally being just awful at every aspect of the business. Even Vince was smart enough to realize that Aliyah is absolute garbage and shouldn't be wrestling in anything longer than 3 minute matches on TV (where she gets squashed). And in the case of Raquel being a top star, it's hard to see that. Not counting already established stars on the main roster: Iyo, Dakota, Shotzi, and Liv (despite the damage that was done) all have way more upside than her, in pretty much every single aspect. And that's just main roster. In looking at minute-by-minutes for NXT vs. AEW, it's clear that they were dividing the same audience and that some of that audience doesn't watch main roster WWE. For instance, NXT killed AEW the night Io fought Sasha, so it's clear she's a draw to that audience (and Sasha probably helped). The demo for NXT 2.0. has cratered when compared to peak Black and Gold and that's probably due to them deemphasizing women's wrestling a bit and the way in which they're presenting women, for the lack of a better term, being more sleazy. My point is that it's hard to say that Raquel won't succeed with the main roster audience because the die-hard wrestling audience that watched NXT wasn't as crazy about her. It does feel like there's some difference in audience. I'm with you that Io is someone they should get behind, but I think it's hard to say that Raquel is someone they shouldn't invest in based on data at a time when NXT was cooling down as a brand entirely. People been hating on Raquel hard when it was clear she was going to be the one to finally beat Io.
|
|
msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,562
|
Post by msc on Sept 1, 2022 3:43:42 GMT -5
I will say Aliyah looked to have potential on her first smackdown match that went longer than 2 seconds. But as time goes on, I realized that wasn't her. It's that Natalya's character is so goddamn boring I was underrating her ability to pull a no hoper to a solid if unexciting match.
|
|
|
Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Sept 1, 2022 7:56:34 GMT -5
I will say Aliyah looked to have potential on her first smackdown match that went longer than 2 seconds. But as time goes on, I realized that wasn't her. It's that Natalya's character is so goddamn boring I was underrating her ability to pull a no hoper to a solid if unexciting match. Never underestimate Natalya's ability to be exceedingly boring. It's pretty much her superpower at this point.
|
|
|
Post by mistery on Sept 1, 2022 8:31:15 GMT -5
I will say Aliyah looked to have potential on her first smackdown match that went longer than 2 seconds. But as time goes on, I realized that wasn't her. It's that Natalya's character is so goddamn boring I was underrating her ability to pull a no hoper to a solid if unexciting match. Yeah. Natalya is as dull as it gets, but she's relied on to carry greener women to passable matches. I mean you didn't even need to look back two weeks to see how bad Aliyah actually is. Her match against Bayley in Toronto was absolutely wretched. Was out of breath like 3 minutes in, and all of her spots were incredibly sloppy. Not like Raquel is any better in terms of personality, mind you. Her only defining traits are she smiles a bunch, and "look at her back". I wish I could figure out what Triple H sees in her, because she brings nothing to the table other than being an okay at best wrestler. I think the general consensus I've seen regarding Raquel and Aliyah as champs is that they only got the titles because Triple H wanted to swerve people for no reason, when sometimes the most predictable result is the correct choice. That's not even mentioning how WWE is going to get themselves out of this situation. Because they are behind the 8-ball now. You either ignore Damage Control getting screwed over, and risk them getting more fan support, that could potentially force a double turn between the currently feuding factions. Or you immediately put the titles onto them, with Raquel and Aliyah getting probably (at best) a month long reign. There's no real winner now, and it's all because Triple H couldn't be assed to realize that putting the tag titles on the random makeshift "team" where one of them can't wrestle for longer than 3 minutes without completely falling apart would be an all time bad idea. But regardless, I think as of right now, the women's tag titles are just in bad of a state as they were before they went on hiatus, and it pretty much shows WWE didn't learn from the Sasha/Naomi stuff.
|
|
|
Post by Lizuka #BLM on Sept 1, 2022 10:33:30 GMT -5
Conceptually I get the idea of pushing Raquel - she's big, she can do impressive stuff, she's decent in the ring, pretty sure she's bilingual - but like... She just isn't interesting. Like at all. At all. When you also factor in how she just in general seems like an idiot meathead and it's pretty easy to just be flat out, "Nope," on her despite her positive traits.
|
|