asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,782
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Post by asuka007 on Jun 4, 2022 21:35:03 GMT -5
WWE are just not good at booking baby faces most of the time. And especially not underdog “nice” babyfaces.
I should not have been surprised that Vince and co would not understand what made face Bayley’s character work so well.
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john84
Fry's dog Seymour
Proud Father of 3 :)
Posts: 24,299
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Post by john84 on Jun 4, 2022 22:36:52 GMT -5
The cash-in on Charlotte was probably the best main roster moment for face-Bayley imo. That was an epic moment IMO and probably the best cash-in moment as far as the women's division is concerned so far.
I'd say their excellent February 2017 Raw match was peak for main-roster face Bayley, even if the aftermath was confusingly booked. The other thing with Bayley is that she had the heel turn but then it took a few more months for her to really find her character. The initial 'bored' characterisation was a bit lacking, but she made up for it later.
Match-wise I think I'd agree with that being peak face-Bayley, I just tend to think more of the cash-in since that felt so epic at the time. The heel character did take a little while to settle in but once it got going I think she's been brilliant in that role.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2022 23:52:02 GMT -5
Was never really into face Bayley, but I can't deny they handled her very poorly as one on the main roster.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jun 5, 2022 2:29:54 GMT -5
I wish Tracy Havalina would make a comeback.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 6:30:47 GMT -5
I wish they had the guts to book Alexa as strong these days. Her recent winning streak gives me great hope. 😊 I would take this over the overpowerful booking of Becky, Ronda, Bianca and Charlotte any day.
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Post by Hypnosis on Jun 5, 2022 8:39:18 GMT -5
I wish they had the guts to book Alexa as strong these days. Her recent winning streak gives me great hope. 😊 I would take this over the overpowerful booking of Becky, Ronda, Bianca and Charlotte any day. Heel Bliss started off great, but I just didn't think it was believable for a small woman like her giving taller/bigger women so much trouble during matches after being moved to Raw. Would have been better if heel Bliss did more selling, then resorted to cheap shots and sneaky wins (except when it's time to get her comeuppance), instead of numerous restholds and easily knocking opponents out with a punch.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 8:58:10 GMT -5
I wish they had the guts to book Alexa as strong these days. Her recent winning streak gives me great hope. 😊 I would take this over the overpowerful booking of Becky, Ronda, Bianca and Charlotte any day. Heel Bliss started off great, but I just didn't think it was believable for a small woman like her giving taller/bigger women so much trouble during matches after being moved to Raw. Would have been better if heel Bliss did more selling, then resorted to cheap shots and sneaky wins (except when it's time to get her comeuppance), instead of numerous restholds and easily knocking opponents out with a punch. Needless to say, I enjoy Alexa's KO power! > I see her as a character from a fighting game or action movie, that's why I have no problem of seeing her knock the shit out of bigger opponents...
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 5, 2022 11:14:15 GMT -5
Yeah, Treated like she should have been on the main roster she would easily still be like the number one face of the roster... hell in NXT we her Merch sales were like at worst #3 in the entire ocmpany... not just NXT... WWE as a whole. Yeah, babyface Bayley should been huge. Easy character for kids and adults to root for. Them treating her like a literal child made no damn sense and almost ruined her The company lucks into Drew being a major babyface but can't hit an easy layup with Bayley Bayley could have been a superface for years and years and if they had turned her then, after years of being a face, Hogan style, it could have been so much bigger Imagine the heat of her killing those tube men after ten years as a babyface instead of like three
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jun 5, 2022 14:44:41 GMT -5
I wish they had the guts to book Alexa as strong these days. Her recent winning streak gives me great hope. 😊 I would take this over the overpowerful booking of Becky, Ronda, Bianca and Charlotte any day. Heel Bliss started off great, but I just didn't think it was believable for a small woman like her giving taller/bigger women so much trouble during matches after being moved to Raw. Would have been better if heel Bliss did more selling, then resorted to cheap shots and sneaky wins (except when it's time to get her comeuppance), instead of numerous restholds and easily knocking opponents out with a punch. It's why I never liked heel Alexa as with how small she is and how a match is usually structured it just doesn't work. It wasn't as bad on Smackdown as they booked her to cheat more and she was presented more as being lucky. However on Raw they booked as being dominant and having her win clean a lot which to me is where they character lost effectiveness as she just wasn't believable enough to be how they were presenting her.
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Heartbreaker
King Koopa
Is actually Bindi Irwin
RIP Punk's media scrum, Page 54, Muffins, Biting People Bad™ (2022 - 2022)
Posts: 11,846
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Post by Heartbreaker on Jun 5, 2022 18:23:43 GMT -5
I’ve never seen WWE go out of their way to make somebody look like the biggest loser in the world. Well, maybe Zack Ryder.
OP Alexa was so terrible. They really had this 5 foot nothing girl winning with KO punches and dominating Charlotte in a match.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Jun 5, 2022 19:26:26 GMT -5
Yeah, babyface Bayley should been huge. Easy character for kids and adults to root for. Them treating her like a literal child made no damn sense and almost ruined her The company lucks into Drew being a major babyface but can't hit an easy layup with Bayley Bayley could have been a superface for years and years and if they had turned her then, after years of being a face, Hogan style, it could have been so much bigger Imagine the heat of her killing those tube men after ten years as a babyface instead of like three I seriously thought they had the female answer to Cena with Bayley. Leave it to WWE to f*** it all up.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Jun 5, 2022 22:17:49 GMT -5
I was sure her career was dead in the water after that match
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,667
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Post by cjh on Jun 5, 2022 23:19:39 GMT -5
Heel Bliss started off great, but I just didn't think it was believable for a small woman like her giving taller/bigger women so much trouble during matches after being moved to Raw. Would have been better if heel Bliss did more selling, then resorted to cheap shots and sneaky wins (except when it's time to get her comeuppance), instead of numerous restholds and easily knocking opponents out with a punch. It's why I never liked heel Alexa as with how small she is and how a match is usually structured it just doesn't work. It wasn't as bad on Smackdown as they booked her to cheat more and she was presented more as being lucky. However on Raw they booked as being dominant and having her win clean a lot which to me is where they character lost effectiveness as she just wasn't believable enough to be how they were presenting her. After the Bayley feud, Bliss was the poster child for the "champ who loses clean in tag and non-title matches" trope. If it wasn't a title defense, she usually lost.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 6, 2022 2:07:56 GMT -5
Appropriate abbreviation as "ER" was where Bayley's career was sent after this feud ended.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jun 6, 2022 2:48:07 GMT -5
It's why I never liked heel Alexa as with how small she is and how a match is usually structured it just doesn't work. It wasn't as bad on Smackdown as they booked her to cheat more and she was presented more as being lucky. However on Raw they booked as being dominant and having her win clean a lot which to me is where they character lost effectiveness as she just wasn't believable enough to be how they were presenting her. After the Bayley feud, Bliss was the poster child for the "champ who loses clean in tag and non-title matches" trope. If it wasn't a title defense, she usually lost. However she always won clean when it mattered. She had feuds where she ridiculed Bayley for being soft, Sasha for being a choke artist, and Mickie James for being too old and was proven right by beating all of them and clean at that. It's the same thing with Charlotte and Britt Baker in AEW. Yeah they'll eat the pins in meaningless tag matches but they always win the big ones that truly matter and are presented so head and shoulders above everyone else that it doesn't matter. In Alexa's case it was even worse in that at least Charlotte is a close to six foot tall amazon who is super skilled in the ring. Britt Baker is closer more to Alexa from a talent stand point (strong talker/character, so so in ring) but at least looks the part of someone who could be the ace of a women's division. Alexa is five foot nothing and isn't that skilled in the ring. So as a result it just made these babyfaces look like total losers in that they were getting buried on the mic by this pint sized heel who on top of that was then beating them fair and square come match time.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jun 6, 2022 3:24:40 GMT -5
Honestly, the people who say Bayley as she was would have been hated pretty much are admitting that WWE are terrible at booking pure babyfaces.
Like CMM said, the fact they lucked into booking Drew well considering their history is a minor miracle.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,667
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Post by cjh on Jun 6, 2022 6:44:09 GMT -5
After the Bayley feud, Bliss was the poster child for the "champ who loses clean in tag and non-title matches" trope. If it wasn't a title defense, she usually lost. However she always won clean when it mattered. She had feuds where she ridiculed Bayley for being soft, Sasha for being a choke artist, and Mickie James for being too old and was proven right by beating all of them and clean at that. It's the same thing with Charlotte and Britt Baker in AEW. Yeah they'll eat the pins in meaningless tag matches but they always win the big ones that truly matter and are presented so head and shoulders above everyone else that it doesn't matter. In Alexa's case it was even worse in that at least Charlotte is a close to six foot tall amazon who is super skilled in the ring. Britt Baker is closer more to Alexa from a talent stand point (strong talker/character, so so in ring) but at least looks the part of someone who could be the ace of a women's division. Alexa is five foot nothing and isn't that skilled in the ring. So as a result it just made these babyfaces look like total losers in that they were getting buried on the mic by this pint sized heel who on top of that was then beating them fair and square come match time. Flair and Baker take those losses way less often than Bliss did that 2017-18 run. They even had Banks beat her clean and take the title for a week for some reason during Bliss's 2017-18 run. I can only think of two times where Bliss has actually pinned Banks out of the numerous TV matches they've had (ending that one week Banks title reign in 2017 and when they were in the Elimination Chamber in 2018). She was definitely built up more through her promos than winning matches while it's both with Flair and Baker.
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