Example of how the WWE make wrestlers not feel special

[Allie Kitsune]

Jun 7, 2022 18:33:48 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Jun 7, 2022 14:10:31 GMT -5 @mattyphatty said:

I would argue that Alberto Del Rio is the worst example of this ever. I know his entire run is maligned in retrospect (and deservedly so, given what a real life idiot and abuser he apparently is), but I actually think they did a pretty good job building him up to the Championship.

But then, my god did he do the same shit constantly, and get booked into the ground once he actually became a main eventer. The Sheamus meme was a meme for a good reason.

Alberto Del Rio came through in the period where the only real work that got put into anybody was giving them a shittons of accolades and numerical accomplishments. Like I knwo that's always the strategy for most promotions, but the resume that Del Rio got in a very short time with very littler actual fanfare is unbelievable. It'd be a hall of fame resume on most anyone but on him it's just a bad punchline. He won everything and it meant ntohing because they did nothing to really make it matter.

Never have I seen someone with as much talent as ADR be so incredibly f***ing boring. He's good enough in the ring, but it all felt like it never mattered.

I did feel that way about ZSJ once (I marked out the hardest I ever had in my entire life when Mascara Dorada/Gran Metalik beat him in the CWC), but turning (and staying) heel has helped his case immensely.

[Soultastic]

I don't think making someone special means only having them wrestle little. It depends on the presentation and the needs of a wrestler's character.

For Bryan in AEW, wrestling a lot was VITAL, since he went with the rep of best in the world. As such, even as a babyface he was presented as a ruthless asskicker with seemingly infinite stamina, so he had many killer matches with different opponents to show that off.

With Cody, I think it was less about him wrestling often or not and more about being presented as a big ass star, which they did. However, overtime he lost the elevator and other elements of his entrance, struggled against Miz and mostly wrestled one guy.

But even then, it really hasn't hurt him THAT much. He's still by far their second biggest star, and the only viable next World champion that's not a part timer. And as much as I oppose wrestlers going out there so clearly hurt, that performance at HIAC really sealed the deal when it comes to him as a top guy.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Jun 7, 2022 18:39:50 GMT -5 Allie Kitsune said:

Jun 7, 2022 18:33:48 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Alberto Del Rio came through in the period where the only real work that got put into anybody was giving them a shittons of accolades and numerical accomplishments. Like I knwo that's always the strategy for most promotions, but the resume that Del Rio got in a very short time with very littler actual fanfare is unbelievable. It'd be a hall of fame resume on most anyone but on him it's just a bad punchline. He won everything and it meant ntohing because they did nothing to really make it matter.

Never have I seen someone with as much talent as ADR be so incredibly f***ing boring. He's good enough in the ring, but it all felt like it never mattered.

I did feel that way about ZSJ once (I marked out the hardest I ever had in my entire life when Mascara Dorada/Gran Metalik beat him in the CWC), but turning (and staying) heel has helped his case immensely.

Eventually ZSJ found his way to Minoru Suzuki, Taichi, and TAKA, and there's only so bland you can remain when you're running with guys with bigger personalities. He found a lot more to do once he got out of the British scene where he could get away with just being a spindly submissions guy. With ADR, you have a guy who might have had an ability to be interesting, but WWE absolutely did not care to find it. They just figured doing whatever they could with him would be enough, which was unfortunately just a car gimmick and an announcer. There had to be something interesting in the guy beyond that one time he showed up on a TNA PPV coked out of his mind and cutting a promo about his domestic abuse allegations, but if nobody cares to find it, then it's as good as not real.

[Allie Kitsune]

Jun 7, 2022 18:41:10 GMT -5 Soultastic said:

I don't think making someone special means only having them wrestle little. It depends on the presentation and the needs of a wrestler's character.

For Bryan in AEW, wrestling a lot was VITAL, since he went with the rep of best in the world. As such, even as a babyface he was presented as a ruthless asskicker with seemingly infinite stamina, so he had many killer matches with different opponents to show that off.

With Cody, I think it was less about him wrestling often or not and more about being presented as a big ass star, which they did. However, overtime he lost the elevator and other elements of his entrance, struggled against Miz and mostly wrestled one guy.

But even then, it really hasn't hurt him THAT much. He's still by far their second biggest star, and the only viable next World champion that's not a part timer. And as much as I oppose wrestlers going out there so clearly hurt, that performance at HIAC really sealed the deal when it comes to him as a top guy.

It was a crappy situation for him to be in, but yeah, Cody had to do it. Vince gave him the big bag, and said "Show me I can rely on you."

And because Vince is so flighty and prone to "New Toy" syndrome, Cody had to show he can show out when called upon, even if hurt.

And yeah, it sucks that that's the environment, but in a way, I still respect that Cody showed that he can be the one to rely on.

[Allie Kitsune]

Jun 7, 2022 18:59:33 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Jun 7, 2022 18:39:50 GMT -5 Allie Kitsune said:

Never have I seen someone with as much talent as ADR be so incredibly f***ing boring. He's good enough in the ring, but it all felt like it never mattered.

I did feel that way about ZSJ once (I marked out the hardest I ever had in my entire life when Mascara Dorada/Gran Metalik beat him in the CWC), but turning (and staying) heel has helped his case immensely.

Eventually ZSJ found his way to Minoru Suzuki, Taichi, and TAKA, and there's only so bland you can remain when you're running with guys with bigger personalities. He found a lot more to do once he got out of the British scene where he could get away with just being a spindly submissions guy. With ADR, you have a guy who might have had an ability to be interesting, but WWE absolutely did not care to find it. They just figured doing whatever they could with him would be enough, which was unfortunately just a car gimmick and an announcer. There had to be something interesting in the guy beyond that one time he showed up on a TNA PPV coked out of his mind and cutting a promo about his domestic abuse allegations, but if nobody cares to find it, then it's as good as not real.

ADR found a way to be interesting.

Unfortunately, it was as a complete trainwreck.

And you can only watch trainwrecks a couple times before the returns diminish.

[beefy]

Jun 7, 2022 13:25:09 GMT -5 Mecca said:

Cody Rhodes since returning to WWE has wrestled the same amount of matches he wrestled in the previous 13 months..

Think about that.

So I gave it some thought.

Yeah, this ain’t it.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

I criticise WWE at most opportunities

I even think WWE makes most of their talent feel homogenous

Cody is one of the worst possible examples of this, and the example for number of matches is baffling

[Feargus McReddit]

Yeah, not being funny, if Cody is an example to use of nobody feeling special then frankly, you might as well say Roman isn't special and he's the most protected man in the company.

If anything, the fact they got Cody so right so quickly is shocking until you remember a) he's being paid loads of money so of course they have to treat him good and b) you barely need to change a thing about Cody from AEW, just put him with new opponents.

[Feyrhausen]

WWE does make their wrestlers not feel special IMO.

One way is being used to much. Not from house shows or even tv appearances though. From having two and three hour shows and the same wrestlers appearing over and over. Let someone cut a promo one week and then not be seen again that night. And just one recap, not every commercial break.

Two is not being bigger than the company. You have a potential big star so they get slapped by Stephanie or brow beat by Vince and they just suck it up.

[Push R Truth]

Counterpoint: Brock Lesnar

[Deleted]

I honestly think that Cody is more of an example of how much more interesting WWE, in general, would be if the company wasn't so controlling of its talent. Cody is a a breath of fresh air right now because he doesn't speak entirely in WWE buzzwords, his promos are clearly from the heart and not meticulously scripted, and his matches (even his TV matches) don't follow the formulaic WWE structure that has existed for the last decade or so. Cody feels important because the WWE is letting Cody be Cody instead of just another cog in the corporate wheel. It remains to be seen if that will last, but I do think that's why Cody's initial WWE run has been met with such high praise. I, personally, think WWE has absolutely harpooned any mystique Brock Lesnar may have once had by having him do the same tired final boss schtick since 2014 at this point, but I will fully admit that he's another guy who feels "special" because he doesn't feel tied to the "WWE Universe."

Given what we know about how WWE operates, now, could you imagine if Steve Austin had debuted in the company in 2015 instead of 1995? There would have been no mostly unscripted "Austin 3:16" promo. There would have been no moving the Ringmaster into the "Stone Cold" direction. In fact, if historical sources are to be believed, there would have been no Stone Cold, there would have been Ice Dagger, or Otto von Ruthless, or Chilly McFreeze, because Austin would have been expected to just kowtow to what the WWE creative team told him to do.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why a publicly traded WWE in the 2022 world can't operate exactly the same as the WWF of the late 90s did, and I even understand why having a predictable, homogenized product is an overall good thing for the health of the company. I don't mean this post to just take yet another shot at WWE. But, I do think Cody is a case study in how giving the performers some creative freedom makes the overall product more appealing.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

The current stage setup makes the talent feel less special in my view. When they come out, the attraction is the stage. It's gigantic with fancy graphics and lots of colors. Then the wrestler comes out and looks so damn tiny. The goal should be to make the talent look larger than life, not the company.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

Jun 7, 2022 18:38:20 GMT -5 cornettesracket said:

So someone makes a thread citing an example of WWE not making wrestler special and picks Cody Rhodes to prove the point ? I mean that’s some mental gymnastics to think that example proves their point.

I agree that Cody feels special right now. But I do think they've made a few missteps that haven't affected too heavily but still happened (although the HIAC match will help him for a while). I think Cody should be above doing silly DQs and countouts like everyone else. He also shouldn't be doing rematches with the Miz this early into his run with all the talent he can work with. But it's relatively minor in the grand scheme of things. 

[Feargus McReddit]

Jun 8, 2022 9:21:13 GMT -5 "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik said:

Jun 7, 2022 18:38:20 GMT -5 cornettesracket said:

So someone makes a thread citing an example of WWE not making wrestler special and picks Cody Rhodes to prove the point ? I mean that’s some mental gymnastics to think that example proves their point.

I agree that Cody feels special right now. But I do think they've made a few missteps that haven't affected too heavily but still happened (although the HIAC match will help him for a while). I think Cody should be above doing silly DQs and countouts like everyone else. He also shouldn't be doing rematches with the Miz this early into his run with all the talent he can work with. But it's relatively minor in the grand scheme of things. 

Yeah, stuff like that are weird choices when either more diverse opponents or promo segments would suffice (since, like, Miz can lose clean one time and not the other? Why exactly) but as you said it's all minor and it hasn't ruined him to the crowd in any way and as much as I can't feel good about it, the HIAC match will give him plenty of fire going into 2023 or before if he somehow does a Cena.

[Nosnorb]

Jun 7, 2022 18:41:10 GMT -5 Soultastic said:

With Cody, I think it was less about him wrestling often or not and more about being presented as a big ass star, which they did. However, overtime he lost the elevator and other elements of his entrance

One of the criticisms of his AEW presentation was that he would have the same elaborate entrance every week, no matter the occasion, and it was a bit much.

Dude should have grand entrances for his PPV matches including the Elevator, especially for the Big 4, but just have the dry ice for Raw.

[Deleted]

It's a bit strange because I feel like Cody fell out of favor with the AEW diehards for being "too WWE," but now that he's back in WWE he's standing out because he feels like an outsider in WWE.

Cody is the most fascinating person in wrestling. Definitely my favorite active wrestler. I'm actually really bummed out because I bought tickets to Summerslam expecting him to be in a featured match, and now that's obviously not going to happen, but I digress.

I know we're a little afield of the original topic here, so to bring it all back around - I agree with the consensus that Cody is not a particularly good example at WWE bungling making someone feel special. I maintain that ADR is the worst example ever, but to throw another, older, one out there, WWE completely neutered everything that made DDP such a star when he got to the company in 2001. Early 2000s DDP just did not need to be a heel, much less a creepy stalker heel.

[Kyle Butler]

I’m just glad this thread wasn’t about someone getting their belongings in trash bags again…

[koreycaskets]

This is the only time I've ever enjoyed Cody Rhodes work ever.

[Jindrak Mark]

Jun 8, 2022 11:41:18 GMT -5 koreycaskets said:

This is the only time I've ever enjoyed Cody Rhodes work ever.

I enjoyed his work around 2011 when he was feuding with Mysterio with the dashing gimmick, 2013 during the Authority/Shield stuff and during the first year or so of AEW when he was feuding with Dustin/Jericho/MJF but yeah overall he feels like a way bigger deal right now.

I don’t think you can understate how big that Wrestlemania debut was. In one night he felt like a massive superstar and it carried on to future crowds. Even if you didn’t watch during Cody’s original run or his ROH/AEW stuff just seeing that entrance and the crowd reaction made him feel special. It’s crazy to me that there were people around March saying fans would get bored of the speculation by the time Wrestlemania came around and he should just debut on Raw. Don’t get me wrong, the fans in the arena that night would have popped and loved it but long-term it would have been a disastrous decision and made him feel less special if he showed up before the PPV. That Wrestlemania return in front of 70,000 people was iconic and the perfect decision.

Then the next night on Raw the promo he cut was so simple yet easy to get behind. He wants to win the WWE title which his father failed to do. The thing that makes it work for me is that I actually have full faith in them for once to follow through. Like the whole thing would mean nothing if I thought they were going to screw it up and not deliver. I’m sure he’s going to get his big moment and title win though. I don’t know whether he’s going to beat Seth, Roman or someone else for it (those two plus Orton with their history are the best options I think) but I have no doubt that it’s going to happen and that injury and HIAC performance has just made people want it even more.

[Magnus the Magnificent]

...you think you're special...