mattyy
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Post by mattyy on Jul 19, 2022 4:07:32 GMT -5
Remember that debate about the Iraq War between Christopher Nowitzki and Scott Steiner? Remember the debate between Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler against Muhammad Hassan and Daivari? I like to remind people this was the first Raw that Sky Sports showed live in their long relationship. I stayed up for that. well I mean on top of Hassan's character being "I'm an Arab-American and I'm tired of you racists treating me like a terrorist. I'm literally just a regular dude.... oh btw here are some terrorists that work for me and we're going to do a mock beheading of Undertaker now :^)"
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 19, 2022 4:12:12 GMT -5
Remember the debate between Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler against Muhammad Hassan and Daivari? I like to remind people this was the first Raw that Sky Sports showed live in their long relationship. I stayed up for that. well I mean on top of Hassan's character being "I'm an Arab-American and I'm tired of you racists treating me like a terrorist. I'm literally just a regular dude.... oh btw here are some terrorists that work for me and we're going to do a mock beheading of Undertaker now :^)" In their defense, that last part came later. He was just the former with added stuff about Iraq or whatever. You are not wrong, though.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Jul 19, 2022 4:27:34 GMT -5
The way most companies deal with stuff like this is distancing themselves as much as possible from the person who's being investigated. But WWE put him on TV for several shows in a row. We all knew that was going to bite them in the ass, so now they're stuck with sending out a genuinely good guy like Titus to do damage control.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 19, 2022 4:32:38 GMT -5
well I mean on top of Hassan's character being "I'm an Arab-American and I'm tired of you racists treating me like a terrorist. I'm literally just a regular dude.... oh btw here are some terrorists that work for me and we're going to do a mock beheading of Undertaker now :^)" In their defense, that last part came later. He was just the former with added stuff about Iraq or whatever. You are not wrong, though. Also, even the original gimmick is seriously undermined by the fact it was an Italian guy who, to my knowledge, anyway, is in no way, shape, or form Muslim or Arab, etc. Daivari (The elder brother, I forget if Ariya does) can at least speak Farsi, and is genuinely Iranian, but even the original premise, if done as a face, would be appropriation.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jul 19, 2022 5:04:27 GMT -5
So... They send Titus O'Neil out there to do some promo about "Oh, WWE is a safe space free from religion and politics". Two things... 1. That's our gimmick 2. Pre-emptive strike? Titus is now the designated human shield, isn't he? First trotted out to try and counter justifiably negative reactions to Hulk Hogan, now this. A recreation of the Gorilla position:
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Post by Sparvid on Jul 19, 2022 5:16:09 GMT -5
On the latest episode of Deadlock they mentioned briefly being a bit surprised of the number of random people they've encountered recently who despite not having followed wrestling in many years still have heard about the Vince news.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Jul 19, 2022 5:31:58 GMT -5
The way most companies deal with stuff like this is distancing themselves as much as possible from the person who's being investigated. But WWE put him on TV for several shows in a row. We all knew that was going to bite them in the ass, so now they're stuck with sending out a genuinely good guy like Titus to do damage control. And that’s going as well as you’d expect, since people are now just assuming there’s even worse Vince news to be dropped instead of taking Titus’s (or more specifically, WWE’s) words at face value.
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ssdrivin
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Post by ssdrivin on Jul 19, 2022 6:51:07 GMT -5
John Cena announcing the death of Osama Bin Laden... albeit in the most Vince-speak way possible so people may have been confused. Oof, I forgot about that. I sort of wrote it off as being "USA loves patriotism and supporting war heroes, so that's just a very proudly American company conveying proud American values". But to me, as a non-American, I find that sort of thing very Americentric, and yes, I guess you're right, actually quite political. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, knowing that we each have our own cultures and sometimes they don't line up, so I try not to complain too much - it's an American company, and America is pro-all-of-that-stuff, on the whole. I don't have to like it though, often it gets me quite irritated/put off when they start a show with rah-rah patriotism, or stop a show dead in the middle to be patriotic. It just seems so unnecessary, especially for a "global" company with "World" in its name, like they have no idea that it's potentially quite annoying and perhaps even offensive. Edit to avoid double posting: In their defense, that last part came later. He was just the former with added stuff about Iraq or whatever. You are not wrong, though. Also, even the original gimmick is seriously undermined by the fact it was an Italian guy who, to my knowledge, anyway, is in no way, shape, or form Muslim or Arab, etc. Daivari (The elder brother, I forget if Ariya does) can at least speak Farsi, and is genuinely Iranian, but even the original premise, if done as a face, would be appropriation. That's a running theme with WWF/WWE, any non-American is probably going to be a trashy stereotype or ignorant copy/paste of a culture that sounds kinda like theirs. Bulgarian Russians, Italian Arabs, Ghanaian Jamaicans, to name but a few. That's just the ones who were presented as being from somewhere else because WWE could get away with portraying their appearances and mannerisms as fitting stereotypes. Count the number of bad stereotypes - Kaientai, Cryme Tyme, Kamala, Umaga, Daivari/Hasan, pretty much any Mexican...
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 19, 2022 6:54:31 GMT -5
The way most companies deal with stuff like this is distancing themselves as much as possible from the person who's being investigated. But WWE put him on TV for several shows in a row. We all knew that was going to bite them in the ass, so now they're stuck with sending out a genuinely good guy like Titus to do damage control. It still blows my mind. He did it for like four f***ing shows. He didn't have to do it, he contributed nothing good by doing it, he just showed how much of a jackass he really is as he went out there to soak up the adoration of the last diehards he has, like a Tyrant whose flame is very quickly burning out, and his castle walls are crumbling. He honestly deserves every inch of Karma coming his way, I don't want this story to get worse on the notion that more peoples lives would be hurt by this, but I have a very strong feeling it will get worse, and Vince has no one to blame but himself, in the past, and the now, for trying to make it a big show and not realize "Hey dude, you and the empire you built might be f***ed".
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 19, 2022 7:01:09 GMT -5
John Cena announcing the death of Osama Bin Laden... albeit in the most Vince-speak way possible so people may have been confused. Oof, I forgot about that. I sort of wrote it off as being "USA loves patriotism and supporting war heroes, so that's just a very proudly American company conveying proud American values". But to me, as a non-American, I find that sort of thing very Americentric, and yes, I guess you're right, actually quite political. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, knowing that we each have our own cultures and sometimes they don't line up, so I try not to complain too much - it's an American company, and America is pro-all-of-that-stuff, on the whole. I don't have to like it though, often it gets me quite irritated/put off when they start a show with rah-rah patriotism, or stop a show dead in the middle to be patriotic. It just seems so unnecessary, especially for a "global" company with "World" in its name, like they have no idea that it's potentially quite annoying and perhaps even offensive. On some stuff, I get that, but it isn't like Osama bin Laden was an obscure figure outside of the US, and even if Al-Qaeda primarily has conflict with the US and US interests, he hadn't exactly had a lack of enemies outside of the US, either. I will say that stupid shit like the Bill Clinton impersonator at whatever past WWF PPVs in the '90s would definitely qualify, though, and other very US-centric political "humor".
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ssdrivin
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Post by ssdrivin on Jul 19, 2022 7:05:27 GMT -5
Oof, I forgot about that. I sort of wrote it off as being "USA loves patriotism and supporting war heroes, so that's just a very proudly American company conveying proud American values". But to me, as a non-American, I find that sort of thing very Americentric, and yes, I guess you're right, actually quite political. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, knowing that we each have our own cultures and sometimes they don't line up, so I try not to complain too much - it's an American company, and America is pro-all-of-that-stuff, on the whole. I don't have to like it though, often it gets me quite irritated/put off when they start a show with rah-rah patriotism, or stop a show dead in the middle to be patriotic. It just seems so unnecessary, especially for a "global" company with "World" in its name, like they have no idea that it's potentially quite annoying and perhaps even offensive. On some stuff, I get that, but it isn't like Osama bin Laden was an obscure figure outside of the US, and even if Al-Qaeda primarily has conflict with the US and US interests, he hadn't exactly had a lack of enemies outside of the US, either. I will say that stupid shit like the Bill Clinton impersonator at whatever past WWF PPVs in the '90s would definitely qualify, though, and other very US-centric political "humor". Sure, but if I wanted to know that happened, I could just watch the news, or I'm sure one of the million other media outlets/properties would've made me aware of it. It is a bit of an exception because it was a huge news event at the time, something of a one-off, and... world politics being what it was at the time, I can see why it might have been deemed worth mentioning. But unless a show is broken into by an actual news broadcast because of an emergency, I don't tend to expect my entertainment media to grandstand for military and political causes.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Jul 19, 2022 7:11:58 GMT -5
IMO the worst thing that (and I already saw some of it kicking up elsewhere) is gonna result from this if nothing is done about Vince and things just go back to normal is now everyone is gonna start to look and question each and every single female talent in the company , which while I know has been a thing but this would make it so much worse. The validity of what they did to get hired to their push , call ups etc it is gonna be a constant etc. Like right now from what SRS said there is an edict at media scrums that there are to be no questions about Vince or anything relating to him right now...eventually that is no longer going to be the case and someone like a Bianca is gonna be put in a really unfortunate situation when she is in public and gets asked. IMO Vince remaining in any sort of power let alone with the company puts the talent since they are the ones out doing media in a horribly unfortunate situation. Historically, show biz was considered "downmarket" and actresses and female entertainers were considered little better than prostitutes. While the #MeToo movement has dealt (we hope) a fatal blow to that mindset within the entertainment industry, pro wrestling still likes to bring up the rear on addressing the issues that made it feel naff even through the later part of the 20th century and well into the 21st. The business, as Vince may be learning now, is different once the spotlight starts showing up the seedier bits of the subculture. There's far too much money pouring into WWE's coffers to let Vince use it as his slush fund, because those people putting that money there want value for their money. It's one thing to skim off the gate before paying out the balance to those you owe; it's quite another to present such a poor quality product to network executives because you're too distracted by the typing pool or whether that former wrestler's going to sue or whether somebody in Allentown saw what went down that night at that hotel and decides to talk to a reporter about it. Vince's past is coming back to haunt him. Meanwhile, the talent is facing an ethical quandary. Spending years watching little kids grow up wanting to be just like them - and validating that fandom by being decent people doing decent things on their own - many might well be wondering how much the scandal might taint how the public sees _them_. It's not just the women having to shake hands with the devil more and more frequently as this drags on, though they definitely stand to lose caste as a result. There are quite a few men on that roster who can't like what the association with Vince is doing to them away from the ring. How many times has Vince thought to proposition wives and girlfriends? Shane did it once - where did he get the idea that he could try? Advocacy work and other charitable activities comes into question now, regardless of how passionate the superstars may be about the work they do. It gets a little awkward promoting LGBTQ+ initiatives, for example, when one of your female colleagues is being told to perform on the couch or go home, or worse. The longer Vince continues within the company without the matter being resolved, the further down the company's reputation slides and, with it, the reputations of those who followed the WWE dream. Vince's continued role within the company nonetheless continues to hurt its reputation further and hurts, perhaps most of all, WWE's ship has been holed and is taking on water right now. It would hurt nobody's reputation to get out sooner rather than later.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 19, 2022 7:12:25 GMT -5
On the latest episode of Deadlock they mentioned briefly being a bit surprised of the number of random people they've encountered recently who despite not having followed wrestling in many years still have heard about the Vince news. Like, we have to remember, this stuff appeared on big news websites and ESPN. ESPN then gave WWE their Sports Humanitarian League Champion award which to say comes off as not reading the room is an understatement.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jul 19, 2022 8:10:42 GMT -5
So, I missed this, but the gist is that the guy who has numerous NDAs because he's a sex fiend sent out a Titus, a man who he once suspended 90 days for having the gaul to grab the sex fiend's arm because Titus thought it was right for a lady to leave the stage before a man; is that correct?
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jul 19, 2022 8:14:01 GMT -5
We’re really critiquing WWE for Cena announcing Bin Laden’s death? Hell there was a thread here in off-topic where we were all blissfully celebrating it.
Maybe I’m just too damn disconnected with what is appropriate these days.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Jul 19, 2022 8:32:00 GMT -5
Also even something as simple as having Hulk Hogan as your top guy and cutting his promos, that's political. It's not as much as other things on people's list but it's still political. Having Cena on top, Austin, Rock, Roman, all political in some ways. Defining what is considered a "face" and "heel" from their behavior is also political. Like, I can keep going into it but being political isn't a switch you can turn on and off depending on the circumstances. It all gives a message in different ways, regardless of what people think. EDIT: Also, sending a black man to make this statement? Political AF. Glad you said it. Thats what made me the most pissed off is them bringing out a minority to deliver this message and trying to cool the fires of Vince being a sexual creep
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jul 19, 2022 8:33:44 GMT -5
We’re really critiquing WWE for Cena announcing Bin Laden’s death? Hell there was a thread here in off-topic where we were all blissfully celebrating it. Maybe I’m just too damn disconnected with what is appropriate these days. I don't think folks are critiquing the announcement itself per se (although it was in weird WWE speak) but rather see it as a more recent example of WWE leaning in to the outside world. You can say you want to be a safe space but you lose credibility when your company has often delved into the world of politics over and over (even when done in a manner most folks celebrate).
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Jul 19, 2022 8:34:31 GMT -5
We’re really critiquing WWE for Cena announcing Bin Laden’s death? Hell there was a thread here in off-topic where we were all blissfully celebrating it. Maybe I’m just too damn disconnected with what is appropriate these days. Not me, there's folks in the arena who didn't know what was going on so Im fine with it. Bin Laden and his gang were a bunch of women repressing goons who are sadly back in power.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jul 19, 2022 8:35:36 GMT -5
We’re really critiquing WWE for Cena announcing Bin Laden’s death? Hell there was a thread here in off-topic where we were all blissfully celebrating it. Maybe I’m just too damn disconnected with what is appropriate these days. Nah, not critiquing them doing it, that's fine if a little odd, that'd be a weird way to find out and end the show, but all good. It's more another item in the list of them getting into real world events and politics, since they sent Titus out there to say they never do that.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 19, 2022 8:40:45 GMT -5
Glad you said it. Thats what made me the most pissed off is them bringing out a minority to deliver this message and trying to cool the fires of Vince being a sexual creep And not just any black guy, the guy who has a whole school named after him in Florida, the same school they announced the Best Animated Film Oscar nominations from. The guy whose basically done a ton of charity work and was just made the Global Ambassador for WWE. Like, it'd be awful if it was any minority on the roster but...they know what they were doing bringing him out. Especially the same guy who was suspended for 60 days and missed WrestleMania that year for essentially nothing.
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