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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jul 19, 2022 16:39:06 GMT -5
Glad you said it. Thats what made me the most pissed off is them bringing out a minority to deliver this message and trying to cool the fires of Vince being a sexual creep On the same race/political spectrum, when Vince said the N-Word on TV (or PPV, forgot which), the camera immediately panned to Booker T. That was 100% calculated. Well, yeah, the context of him saying it was a joke that he was an old white man being casually racist so the whole point was immediately cutting to someone reacting in disbelief. Not to justify it, the segment was awful and stupid and had no point, but kind of just giving the explanation that it was in service of the purpose of the joke so yeah, it definitely wasn't accidental.
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mattyy
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Post by mattyy on Jul 19, 2022 16:41:51 GMT -5
On the same race/political spectrum, when Vince said the N-Word on TV (or PPV, forgot which), the camera immediately panned to Booker T. That was 100% calculated. Well, yeah, the context of him saying it was a joke that he was an old white man being casually racist so the whole point was immediately cutting to someone reacting in disbelief. Not to justify it, the segment was awful and stupid and had no point, but kind of just giving the explanation that it was in service of the purpose of the joke so yeah, it definitely wasn't accidental. that was only a couple months removed from Kerwin White, with the marvelous catchphrase: "If it's not White, it's not Right!"... an angle that was supposedly leading to Kerwin essentially being outed as a Klansman.. ...which DX did to the Hart Foundation, back in '97.. or at least lied about it to try and get the Nation to beat up The Foundation.
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Post by Stone Coke Miami Watson 🥃 on Jul 19, 2022 16:50:31 GMT -5
Yeah I think PWinsider reported that last week. That and potentially more followups from the WSJ. Indeed, along with the fact that both WSJ and HBO are actively looking for ex-talent (and I'd assume general staff) with any stories to tell. Some very interesting stories - both around Vince's sexual misdemeanours and the general working environment coming up I'd think, lots of scope to find people who hate Vince to talk about why. Anyone got Jacques Rougeau's number? Hell, I'd be dialing up Nailz for the LOLz...
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ghost
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Post by ghost on Jul 19, 2022 16:50:55 GMT -5
On the same race/political spectrum, when Vince said the N-Word on TV (or PPV, forgot which), the camera immediately panned to Booker T. That was 100% calculated. Well, yeah, the context of him saying it was a joke that he was an old white man being casually racist so the whole point was immediately cutting to someone reacting in disbelief. Not to justify it, the segment was awful and stupid and had no point, but kind of just giving the explanation that it was in service of the purpose of the joke so yeah, it definitely wasn't accidental. Sure, but having a black talent "co-sign" the joke to possibly deflect criticism was definitely part of the reasoning. Basically: "my black employee (er, independent contractor) was OK with me using the word, so laugh dammit".
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jul 19, 2022 16:57:32 GMT -5
Well, yeah, the context of him saying it was a joke that he was an old white man being casually racist so the whole point was immediately cutting to someone reacting in disbelief. Not to justify it, the segment was awful and stupid and had no point, but kind of just giving the explanation that it was in service of the purpose of the joke so yeah, it definitely wasn't accidental. Sure, but having a black talent "co-sign" the joke to possibly deflect criticism was definitely part of the reasoning. Basically: "my black employee (er, independent contractor) was OK with me using the word, so laugh dammit". That sure doesn't sound like Booker T; he's not one to blindly sign off on anything WWE does?
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 19, 2022 16:57:50 GMT -5
Well, yeah, the context of him saying it was a joke that he was an old white man being casually racist so the whole point was immediately cutting to someone reacting in disbelief. Not to justify it, the segment was awful and stupid and had no point, but kind of just giving the explanation that it was in service of the purpose of the joke so yeah, it definitely wasn't accidental. that was only a couple months removed from Kerwin White, with the marvelous catchphrase: "If it's not White, it's not Right!"... an angle that was supposedly leading to Kerwin essentially being outed as a Klansman.. That character was so weird, and the WWE has tried it several times, with the Mexicools and heel New Day and sorta Muhammed Hassan. A person is portrayed as justifiably upset with racist treatment, both within the WWE and on the part of fans, so they start acting in extreme ways to mock the racists. The text of the Kerwin White character was that Chavo was deliberately acting like a ghoulish parody of an anglo because he was fed up with people wanting him to act whiter. But this is almost always revealed as an excuse to wade into low stereotypes or to shock everyone with your 'racist character' but still give yourself an excuse. Do racism to mock racism to do racism. It's baffling.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jul 19, 2022 18:19:54 GMT -5
On the same race/political spectrum, when Vince said the N-Word on TV (or PPV, forgot which), the camera immediately panned to Booker T. That was 100% calculated. Well, yeah, the context of him saying it was a joke that he was an old white man being casually racist so the whole point was immediately cutting to someone reacting in disbelief. Not to justify it, the segment was awful and stupid and had no point, but kind of just giving the explanation that it was in service of the purpose of the joke so yeah, it definitely wasn't accidental. I 100% understand why someone would take offense by that segment, but I do understand what it was going for. The whole point was that this old white dude was trying to be hip because he listened to a couple rap songs. Still a terrible f***ing idea, but the punchline did seem to be "holy shit is Vince dumb. You can't say that" and not an endorsement of using that word. F***, was it a stupid idea top to bottom tho that added nothing to anything the more I think about this right now.
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Post by THE FVNKER on Jul 19, 2022 18:42:13 GMT -5
Sure, but having a black talent "co-sign" the joke to possibly deflect criticism was definitely part of the reasoning. Basically: "my black employee (er, independent contractor) was OK with me using the word, so laugh dammit". That sure doesn't sound like Booker T; he's not one to blindly sign off on anything WWE does? No but I'd be willing to bet he didn't mind cashing the checks signed by the guy saying it.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jul 19, 2022 18:42:52 GMT -5
The problem here is less "No guys it was a joke that he was a weird old man being out of touch with things" it was that he wrote himself to say the no-no word on television. Like he also wrote himself to be a giant creepy pervert who sexually harassed women on the roster. In real life? He was a giant creepy pervert who sexually harassed women on the roster. See where this is going here? See where "Vince is allowed to write himself to do stuff he wants to do on TV with zero oversight" is still a problem even if it's meant to come off as a joke?
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Jul 19, 2022 19:48:15 GMT -5
Has anyone pointed out that Titus's speech literally contradicts itself?
"supporting our service men and women all over the globe" "safe space from religion and politics"
Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot supporting the US Military isn't politics.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jul 19, 2022 21:11:24 GMT -5
Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot supporting the US Military isn't politics. let's not go there.
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Jul 19, 2022 21:13:07 GMT -5
Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot supporting the US Military isn't politics. let's not go there. Lets absolutely go there lol. If we're talking about the hypocrisy on display in that speech, then this is something that happened in the speech itself. Whether you like it or not, whether you want to admit it or not, that statement is political.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jul 19, 2022 21:19:37 GMT -5
Lets absolutely go there lol. If we're talking about the hypocrisy on display in that speech, then this is something that happened in the speech itself. Whether you like it or not, whether you want to admit it or not, that statement is political. I'm sorry but anything being negatively connotated to supporting troops (even if it's not your intention) doesn't sit well with me. To me political in this context isn't ambiguous. You know what they meant. They aren't going to endorse certain laws or a candidate of a particular party (unless it's Linda) on air, insinuating that one way of thinking is the right way. Of course it's contradictory in some ways, but we shouldn't let our disgusts for Vince's actions, make us reach at things that imo shouldn't be slammed for. Supporting the troops when almost every media outlet did it in the post 9/11 aftermath, celebrating Bin Laden's death, or having insane kayfabe gimmicks.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jul 19, 2022 21:28:30 GMT -5
Lets absolutely go there lol. If we're talking about the hypocrisy on display in that speech, then this is something that happened in the speech itself. Whether you like it or not, whether you want to admit it or not, that statement is political. I'm sorry but anything being negatively connotated to supporting troops (even if it's not your intention) doesn't sit well with me. To me political in this context isn't ambiguous. You know what they meant. They aren't going to endorse certain laws or a candidate of a particular party (unless it's Linda) on air, insinuating that one way of thinking is the right way. Of course it's contradictory in some ways, but we shouldn't let our disgusts for Vince's actions, make us reach at things that imo shouldn't be slammed for. Supporting the troops when almost every media outlet did it in the post 9/11 aftermath, celebrating Bin Laden's death, or having insane kayfabe gimmicks. Yeah, I feel saying "support our troops" is a pretty bipartisan statement. Men and women leave their families for months at a time, and it's basically saying "hope you return safe" which is not guaranteed for them. It's not really a political statement, and doesn't mean you support one party or another or even that you agree with where and why they're deployed but you want to see them come home safe to their family
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Jul 19, 2022 21:29:17 GMT -5
Lets absolutely go there lol. If we're talking about the hypocrisy on display in that speech, then this is something that happened in the speech itself. Whether you like it or not, whether you want to admit it or not, that statement is political. I'm sorry but anything being negatively connotated to supporting troops (even if it's not your intention) doesn't sit well with me. To me political in this context isn't ambiguous. You know what they meant. They aren't going to endorse certain laws or a candidate of a particular party (unless it's Linda) on air, insinuating that one way of thinking is the right way. Of course it's contradictory in some ways, but we shouldn't let our disgusts for Vince's actions, make us reach at things that imo shouldn't be slammed for. Supporting the troops when almost every media outlet did it in the post 9/11 aftermath, celebrating Bin Laden's death, or having insane kayfabe gimmicks. I know what they meant, and I'm not comfortable with what they meant. I don't enjoy gross displays of patriotism, and I don't enjoy troop worship. That isn't a "safe space from politics" to me. Lets take the actions of the US military off the table, as I'm sure the mods wouldn't like it if I went there, why is a "Global" Ambassador endorsing a specific country's military?
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ssdrivin
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Post by ssdrivin on Jul 19, 2022 21:30:52 GMT -5
Lets absolutely go there lol. If we're talking about the hypocrisy on display in that speech, then this is something that happened in the speech itself. Whether you like it or not, whether you want to admit it or not, that statement is political. I'm sorry but anything being negatively connotated to supporting troops (even if it's not your intention) doesn't sit well with me. To me political in this context isn't ambiguous. You know what they meant. They aren't going to endorse certain laws or a candidate of a particular party (unless it's Linda) on air, insinuating that one way of thinking is the right way. Of course it's contradictory in some ways, but we shouldn't let our disgusts for Vince's actions, make us reach at things that imo shouldn't be slammed for. Supporting the troops when almost every media outlet did it in the post 9/11 aftermath, celebrating Bin Laden's death, or having insane kayfabe gimmicks. I think if you're going to make a speech about WWE being a safe space with no politics, no religion, no sexism, whatever, to show how family-friendly and inoffensive it is, you just wouldn't include that at all. I mentioned earlier that I know the US has different views on things like that and it might be considered unanimously great to show support for the military, but why take that risk in that context? Why bring it up? There could surely be plenty of other, more neutral, less real-world related things to say which don't evoke thoughts and memories of horrible unpleasantries or political conquests? If I were writing that speech, I would do my utmost to avoid mentioning anything even remotely controversial, even if I think it's a good thing, because that's the point of the speech (even if it's complete nonsense in the context of WWE never touching those subjects). I'd want people to be thinking warm and fuzzy when I'm trying to show them how wholesome WWE is, I wouldn't want to risk that message not coming across (or being seen as hypocritical) by touching on things which some viewers might vehemently disagree with (edit: or be upset by).
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jul 19, 2022 21:36:48 GMT -5
I'm sorry but anything being negatively connotated to supporting troops (even if it's not your intention) doesn't sit well with me. To me political in this context isn't ambiguous. You know what they meant. They aren't going to endorse certain laws or a candidate of a particular party (unless it's Linda) on air, insinuating that one way of thinking is the right way. Of course it's contradictory in some ways, but we shouldn't let our disgusts for Vince's actions, make us reach at things that imo shouldn't be slammed for. Supporting the troops when almost every media outlet did it in the post 9/11 aftermath, celebrating Bin Laden's death, or having insane kayfabe gimmicks. I think if you're going to make a speech about WWE being a safe space with no politics, no religion, no sexism, whatever, to show how family-friendly and inoffensive it is, you just wouldn't include that at all. I mentioned earlier that I know the US has different views on things like that and it might be considered unanimously great to show support for the military, but why take that risk in that context? Why bring it up? There could surely be plenty of other, more neutral, less real-world related things to say which don't evoke thoughts and memories of horrible unpleasantries or political conquests? If I were writing that speech, I would do my utmost to avoid mentioning anything even remotely controversial, even if I think it's a good thing, because that's the point of the speech (even if it's complete nonsense in the context of WWE never touching those subjects). I'd want people to be thinking warm and fuzzy when I'm trying to show them how wholesome WWE is, I wouldn't want to risk that message not coming across (or being seen as hypocritical) by touching on things which some viewers might vehemently disagree with (edit: or be upset by). Oh I agree with everything you said, but I think some things are being reached as examples of WWE's contradiction when they shouldn't.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jul 19, 2022 21:38:06 GMT -5
I'm sorry but anything being negatively connotated to supporting troops (even if it's not your intention) doesn't sit well with me. To me political in this context isn't ambiguous. You know what they meant. They aren't going to endorse certain laws or a candidate of a particular party (unless it's Linda) on air, insinuating that one way of thinking is the right way. Of course it's contradictory in some ways, but we shouldn't let our disgusts for Vince's actions, make us reach at things that imo shouldn't be slammed for. Supporting the troops when almost every media outlet did it in the post 9/11 aftermath, celebrating Bin Laden's death, or having insane kayfabe gimmicks. Yeah, I feel saying "support our troops" is a pretty bipartisan statement. Men and women leave their families for months at a time, and it's basically saying "hope you return safe" which is not guaranteed for them. It's not really a political statement, and doesn't mean you support one party or another or even that you agree with where and why they're deployed but you want to see them come home safe to their family and those who are fortunate to return... aren't the same.
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ssdrivin
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Post by ssdrivin on Jul 19, 2022 21:45:16 GMT -5
I think if you're going to make a speech about WWE being a safe space with no politics, no religion, no sexism, whatever, to show how family-friendly and inoffensive it is, you just wouldn't include that at all. I mentioned earlier that I know the US has different views on things like that and it might be considered unanimously great to show support for the military, but why take that risk in that context? Why bring it up? There could surely be plenty of other, more neutral, less real-world related things to say which don't evoke thoughts and memories of horrible unpleasantries or political conquests? If I were writing that speech, I would do my utmost to avoid mentioning anything even remotely controversial, even if I think it's a good thing, because that's the point of the speech (even if it's complete nonsense in the context of WWE never touching those subjects). I'd want people to be thinking warm and fuzzy when I'm trying to show them how wholesome WWE is, I wouldn't want to risk that message not coming across (or being seen as hypocritical) by touching on things which some viewers might vehemently disagree with (edit: or be upset by). Oh I agree with everything you said, but I think some things are being reached as examples of WWE's contradiction when they shouldn't. I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree on the specifics of that, but I would bear in mind that WWE is a global brand and that it's not just Americans who watch. It's easy for me to say that, as a non-American, I always have that outside perspective, but I'd suggest WWE consider what they're associating themselves with (unnecessarily, I think, unless it's a Tribute to the Troops show) and that the audience outside of the US might not be quite as enthusiastic towards unquestioningly endorsing such things. I understand the sentiment behind supporting that cause, but I don't think it travels well. If you're going to claim to be a safe space, that shouldn't just be for one country, even if it's the country your business was established in and caters primarily to, not when you make a big deal about (and have a brand based on) being the big cheese in wrestling (sorry, "sports entertainment") all around the world.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jul 19, 2022 21:45:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I feel saying "support our troops" is a pretty bipartisan statement. Men and women leave their families for months at a time, and it's basically saying "hope you return safe" which is not guaranteed for them. It's not really a political statement, and doesn't mean you support one party or another or even that you agree with where and why they're deployed but you want to see them come home safe to their family and those who are fortunate to return... aren't the same. Yeah, a friend of mine has done some tours and it left him pretty rattled. He was helping train people of another nationality, and basically was "We didn't have the time or resources to do it properly, we were marching half of them out to die" and it f***ing weighs on him. He got out of the military a couple years ago, but he'll never be the same as before he enlisted.
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