fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jul 19, 2022 21:46:37 GMT -5
Oh I agree with everything you said, but I think some things are being reached as examples of WWE's contradiction when they shouldn't. I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree on the specifics of that, but I would bear in mind that WWE is a global brand and that it's not just Americans who watch. It's easy for me to say that, as a non-American, I always have that outside perspective, but I'd suggest WWE consider what they're associating themselves with (unnecessarily, I think, unless it's a Tribute to the Troops show) and that the audience outside of the US might not be quite as enthusiastic towards unquestioningly endorsing such things. I understand the sentiment behind supporting that cause, but I don't think it travels well. If you're going to claim to be a safe space, that shouldn't just be for one country, even if it's the country your business was established in and caters primarily to, not when you make a big deal about (and have a brand based on) being the big cheese in wrestling (sorry, "sports entertainment") all around the world. yeah I understand the American and non-American difference in perspective here.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 20, 2022 0:09:12 GMT -5
Let’s move on from the military point. Both sides have fair points about it so no need to continue.
Also, we can write examples down, and people have. No need for any montage of images that might get you in trouble, yeah?
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 20, 2022 7:15:02 GMT -5
Not going to drag the discussion out very far, but just going to throw this in since I teach civics: yes, the way WWE presents its support of troops is explicitly political, but that's mostly because, well, literally everything is political. That's not a joke: every single thing we do, say, or maneuver around in our daily lives has political context to it.
That's not to be confused with partisan politics, which is explicitly taking a side on (insert issue or issues here); that's its own thing. But when you present "the troops" in universally positive language that's a highly political stance, even if it's not meant to be offensive or brook disagreement. We very often take statements where "everyone can agree on that!" and use that as a way to say it isn't political, but that really couldn't be further from the truth; even an organization saying "we support our local small business leaders!" or something like that is a political statement.
So yeah, sorry about that, let's cut off the specifics of this one here, but yeah, I think this might be a semantics conversation where some people just associate "politics" with different meanings.
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Post by johncasey on Jul 20, 2022 13:20:44 GMT -5
Is it possible that USA and/or Fox Executives might put a stop to those strange promos that Vince and Titus have been cutting.
Surely they know what the purpose behind are and I'm wondering if they may cause issues down the line.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jul 20, 2022 13:23:59 GMT -5
Is it possible that USA and/or Fox Executives might put a stop to those strange promos that Vince and Titus have been cutting. Surely they know what the purpose behind are and I'm wondering if they may cause issues down the line. NBC maybe, but Fox? Feels unlikely.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 20, 2022 17:07:03 GMT -5
WWE's definition of politics for years was HHH saying "I just don't think the guy can work"
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No Longer a Produceman
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Post by No Longer a Produceman on Jul 20, 2022 18:02:44 GMT -5
WWE's definition of politics for years was HHH saying " I just don't think the guy can work Am I f****** going over?" FTFY
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The Warthog
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Post by The Warthog on Jul 20, 2022 20:22:19 GMT -5
Oof, I forgot about that. I sort of wrote it off as being "USA loves patriotism and supporting war heroes, so that's just a very proudly American company conveying proud American values". But to me, as a non-American, I find that sort of thing very Americentric, and yes, I guess you're right, actually quite political. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, knowing that we each have our own cultures and sometimes they don't line up, so I try not to complain too much - it's an American company, and America is pro-all-of-that-stuff, on the whole. I don't have to like it though, often it gets me quite irritated/put off when they start a show with rah-rah patriotism, or stop a show dead in the middle to be patriotic. It just seems so unnecessary, especially for a "global" company with "World" in its name, like they have no idea that it's potentially quite annoying and perhaps even offensive. On some stuff, I get that, but it isn't like Osama bin Laden was an obscure figure outside of the US, and even if Al-Qaeda primarily has conflict with the US and US interests, he hadn't exactly had a lack of enemies outside of the US, either. I will say that stupid shit like the Bill Clinton impersonator at whatever past WWF PPVs in the '90s would definitely qualify, though, and other very US-centric political "humor". Well, there was Trump vs Vince. They're not quite political, but I remember the Donald vs Rosie shit.
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john84
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Post by john84 on Jul 21, 2022 7:05:30 GMT -5
... Bret couldn't understand Arnold and Tiger's choices? As far as I know, they're just the same as the ones he made. Yeah, I like Bret, but didn't he admit to being a serial adulterer in his first marriage? I think he and Sunny both denied the "Sunny days" accusation, but pretty sure he freely admitted to getting plenty of action outside of his marriage elsewhere. Yeah, I remember reading his book and laughing when he complained about Julia's paranoia about him sleeping around, when he DID! lol.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Jul 21, 2022 8:00:36 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say that, for at least the next few months if not longer, Vince McMahon isn't going to be able to fart sideways without it being reported by SRS or Uncle Dave or landing in the inbox of Variety or WSJ. The longer this goes on, the more likely it is that investors get targeted themselves for holding WWE stock in their portfolios - and the more likely _they_ are to be seen as condoning or even encouraging Vince's exploitative practices. Perhaps "cancelling" a few of those shareholders - or, indeed, the networks - might bring some pressure to rein Vince in.
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Post by Alexander The So-so on Jul 21, 2022 8:28:05 GMT -5
Not going to drag the discussion out very far, but just going to throw this in since I teach civics: yes, the way WWE presents its support of troops is explicitly political, but that's mostly because, well, literally everything is political. That's not a joke: every single thing we do, say, or maneuver around in our daily lives has political context to it. That's not to be confused with partisan politics, which is explicitly taking a side on (insert issue or issues here); that's its own thing. But when you present "the troops" in universally positive language that's a highly political stance, even if it's not meant to be offensive or brook disagreement. We very often take statements where "everyone can agree on that!" and use that as a way to say it isn't political, but that really couldn't be further from the truth; even an organization saying "we support our local small business leaders!" or something like that is a political statement. So yeah, sorry about that, let's cut off the specifics of this one here, but yeah, I think this might be a semantics conversation where some people just associate "politics" with different meanings. Fully agreed. Literal and specific partisan politics are one thing, but as Aristotle said, man is a political animal, in the sense that just about everything we say and do can be tied to some decision made somewhere or sometime about how a human society ought to be arranged and organized. In the broadest sense, it’s literally impossible not to be political.
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Lardlad
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Post by Lardlad on Jul 21, 2022 21:14:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I like Bret, but didn't he admit to being a serial adulterer in his first marriage? I think he and Sunny both denied the "Sunny days" accusation, but pretty sure he freely admitted to getting plenty of action outside of his marriage elsewhere. Yeah, I remember reading his book and laughing when he complained about Julia's paranoia about him sleeping around, when he DID! lol. Julie's book was so depressing. Whenever I read Bret's book (2-3 times a year) I never want to put it down. But Julie's book made me want to stop reading forever. So depressing.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 22, 2022 12:11:42 GMT -5
Man, just heard a clip of Paul London on Rene Dupree's podcast talking a bit about this situation, specifically his treatment of Ashley Massaro, including Kevin Dunn being Vince's creepy errand boy.
Oh, and even more fun stuff about Johnny Ace; sounds like his time with the paralegal involved in the first story that broke here coincided with the time his wife at the time, the Bella's mom, was dealing with brain cancer.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jul 22, 2022 12:20:27 GMT -5
Man, just heard a clip of Paul London on Rene Dupree's podcast talking a bit about this situation, specifically his treatment of Ashley Massaro, including Kevin Dunn being Vince's creepy errand boy. Oh, and even more fun stuff about Johnny Ace; sounds like his time with the paralegal involved in the first story that broke here coincided with the time his wife at the time, the Bella's mom, was dealing with brain cancer. Yeah she had a brain mass, with symptoms that were originally misdiagnosed as Bell’s Palsy. They followed the story on that season of Total Bellas. It’s documented here in great detail and she has nice things to say about Johnny not leaving her side and being her caregiver. biaaz.org/brain-waves/kathy-laurinaitis-a-woman-of-courage/. This was published before all of these rumors/allegations I’m sure, so who knows where they stand now.
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Post by Dub H on Jul 22, 2022 12:29:17 GMT -5
Man, just heard a clip of Paul London on Rene Dupree's podcast talking a bit about this situation, specifically his treatment of Ashley Massaro, including Kevin Dunn being Vince's creepy errand boy. Oh, and even more fun stuff about Johnny Ace; sounds like his time with the paralegal involved in the first story that broke here coincided with the time his wife at the time, the Bella's mom, was dealing with brain cancer. Hey now to be fair Johnny Ace likely did this kind of thing the WHOLE time he was with the Bella's mom.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2022 13:55:15 GMT -5
Man, just heard a clip of Paul London on Rene Dupree's podcast talking a bit about this situation, specifically his treatment of Ashley Massaro, including Kevin Dunn being Vince's creepy errand boy. Oh, and even more fun stuff about Johnny Ace; sounds like his time with the paralegal involved in the first story that broke here coincided with the time his wife at the time, the Bella's mom, was dealing with brain cancer. Everything they did to Ashley is beyond vile. From the tribute to the troops rape subsequent coverup to now this.
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Jul 22, 2022 15:07:32 GMT -5
So Vince just announced his retirement on Twitter.
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ayumidah
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Post by ayumidah on Jul 22, 2022 15:08:28 GMT -5
Welp. That's a hell of a way to announce that.
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Jul 22, 2022 15:10:04 GMT -5
If Vince is actually retiring, then some serious shit is about to come down the pipe and dude has no recourse but to distance himself.
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Post by Helen of Jasper Troy on Jul 22, 2022 15:10:39 GMT -5
I need a reversed gif of Bron Breakker kicking the old NXT logo in half right now
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