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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jul 19, 2022 15:50:05 GMT -5
WWE does not care about giving the fans what they want or making money more than they care about winning an argument. WWE booking is powered by spite. This isn't even necessarily a criticism, I think some of WWE's spiteful booking has been some of the funniest shit they have ever done Strongly disagree. They only care about making money. I think the iwc has a hard time reconciling that there is more money potential in WWE’s picks on top guys than others that we want. Guys like Bryan and Punk are exceptions, not the rule. Good work rate guys like Tomasso Ciampa will never draw as much as Roman Reigns even if pushed well. I think we are seeing Gunther prove my theory right. There is absolutely no way for you to prove that Bryan or Punk or Ciampa couldn't achieve that. Punk drew a 1 million rating without even slightly claiming to show up, and since Bryan joined AEW too, AEW has nearly doubled its buyrates. Also, I am not only talking about Roman. WWE left billions on the table by booking the InVasion as stupidly as they did. They prioritised spite over making money in what could have been the single most lucrative angle in wrestling history. They also have form for killing things that have got over on their own, like Zack Ryder. Spite always comes first, and if not spite, pigheadedness that they are right about who the fans will like |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 19, 2022 15:56:40 GMT -5
WWE does not care about giving the fans what they want or making money more than they care about winning an argument. WWE booking is powered by spite. This isn't even necessarily a criticism, I think some of WWE's spiteful booking has been some of the funniest shit they have ever done Strongly disagree. They only care about making money. I think the iwc has a hard time reconciling that there is more money potential in WWE’s picks on top guys than others that we want. Guys like Bryan and Punk are exceptions, not the rule. Good work rate guys like Tomasso Ciampa will never draw as much as Roman Reigns even if pushed well. I think we are seeing Gunther prove my theory right. I mean, you can just say you don’t like people. You don’t have to make up some stuff involving people who’ve barely been called up from NXT and not doing much of note and just saying “They won’t draw”. Especially on shows where you can count on one hand people who actually draw. Just say “This guy isn’t for me”, it’s fine. |
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jul 19, 2022 16:01:32 GMT -5
Strongly disagree. They only care about making money. I think the iwc has a hard time reconciling that there is more money potential in WWE’s picks on top guys than others that we want. Guys like Bryan and Punk are exceptions, not the rule. Good work rate guys like Tomasso Ciampa will never draw as much as Roman Reigns even if pushed well. I think we are seeing Gunther prove my theory right. There is absolutely no way for you to prove that Bryan or Punk or Ciampa couldn't achieve that. Punk drew a 1 million rating without even slightly claiming to show up, and since Bryan joined AEW too, AEW has nearly doubled its buyrates. Also, I am not only talking about Roman. WWE left billions on the table by booking the InVasion as stupidly as they did. They prioritised spite over making money in what could have been the single most lucrative angle in wrestling history. They also have form for killing things that have got over on their own, like Zack Ryder. Spite always comes first, and if not spite, pigheadedness that they are right about who the fans will like Again Bryan and Punk are the exceptions. What I mean is they succeeded because of the connection they were able to get over with the main audience. Not because they are work rate guys. I will die on that sward. They had charisma and personality. Where's the hijacking for Finn Balor? InVasion was doomed from the start with many of the big stars electing to stay home for the duration of their contracts. No disrespect intended to who they were able to get. But the NWO, Sting and Goldberg would have hit differently than Booker T and DDP leading a charge of lower carders. Like how many people are really in a higher spot on the card in AEW than they were in WWE? Moxley, Bryan, Punk, Jericho were all main eventers. In fact I'd like them to become a heel faction of ex wwe guys that "actually made it up north" |
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jul 19, 2022 16:05:20 GMT -5
Strongly disagree. They only care about making money. I think the iwc has a hard time reconciling that there is more money potential in WWE’s picks on top guys than others that we want. Guys like Bryan and Punk are exceptions, not the rule. Good work rate guys like Tomasso Ciampa will never draw as much as Roman Reigns even if pushed well. I think we are seeing Gunther prove my theory right. I mean, you can just say you don’t like people. You don’t have to make up some stuff involving people who’ve barely been called up from NXT and not doing much of note and just saying “They won’t draw”. Especially on shows where you can count on one hand people who actually draw. Just say “This guy isn’t for me”, it’s fine. It's not about naming who I like and dislike. It's about understanding why WWE choses it's people. I can see the correlation. Look at who HAS succeeded beyond NXT. Owens, Zayn, Nakamura(he is consistently in the mid card title scene, nothing wrong with that) They all bring charisma to a character. When Gunther peters out despite being booked as a monster and given the ic title quickly, it will be because the crowd didn't get into him. Nothing to do with skill. My point that it should be telegraphed as a mis match, and not just resort to the blame game. |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jul 19, 2022 16:06:20 GMT -5
There is absolutely no way for you to prove that Bryan or Punk or Ciampa couldn't achieve that. Punk drew a 1 million rating without even slightly claiming to show up, and since Bryan joined AEW too, AEW has nearly doubled its buyrates. Also, I am not only talking about Roman. WWE left billions on the table by booking the InVasion as stupidly as they did. They prioritised spite over making money in what could have been the single most lucrative angle in wrestling history. They also have form for killing things that have got over on their own, like Zack Ryder. Spite always comes first, and if not spite, pigheadedness that they are right about who the fans will like Again Bryan and Punk are the exceptions. What I mean is they succeeded because of the connection they were able to get over with the main audience. Not because they are work rate guys. I will die on that sward. They had charisma and personality. Where's the hijacking for Finn Balor? InVasion was doomed from the start with many of the big stars electing to stay home for the duration of their contracts. No disrespect intended to who they were able to get. But the NWO, Sting and Goldberg would have hit differently than Booker T and DDP leading a charge of lower carders. Like how many people are really in a higher spot on the card in AEW than they were in WWE? Moxley, Bryan, Punk, Jericho were all main eventers. In fact I'd like them to become a heel faction of ex wwe guys that "actually made it up north" This isn't even the same discussion. I didn't say anything about workrate. I was talking solely about people the crowd were booing or cheering, and that included cheering Wyatt, Rusev, Ziggler, Ambrose and even Sandow. And those people chose to sit out their contracts because WWF didn't offer them enough money. Booker and Page took a 50 per cent buyout for the opportunity, and Page especially was treated atrociously. All the WCW guys who sat out their contracts would have been idiots to take those offers exactly because of how much money they were worth. The PPV sold on the WCW InVasion lead by Lance Storm and Hugh Morrus still sold 750,000 buys. They could have bought the WCW guys one at a time, and they killed the angle the night before debuting Ric Flair. Whatever obstacles were in their way, the WWF put more in by themselves |
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Post by fw91 on Jul 19, 2022 16:11:13 GMT -5
Again Bryan and Punk are the exceptions. What I mean is they succeeded because of the connection they were able to get over with the main audience. Not because they are work rate guys. I will die on that sward. They had charisma and personality. Where's the hijacking for Finn Balor? InVasion was doomed from the start with many of the big stars electing to stay home for the duration of their contracts. No disrespect intended to who they were able to get. But the NWO, Sting and Goldberg would have hit differently than Booker T and DDP leading a charge of lower carders. Like how many people are really in a higher spot on the card in AEW than they were in WWE? Moxley, Bryan, Punk, Jericho were all main eventers. In fact I'd like them to become a heel faction of ex wwe guys that "actually made it up north" This isn't even the same discussion. I didn't say anything about workrate. I was talking solely about people the crowd were booing or cheering, and that included cheering Wyatt, Rusev, Ziggler, Ambrose and even Sandow. And those people chose to sit out their contracts because WWF didn't offer them enough money. Booker and Page took a 50 per cent buyout for the opportunity, and Page especially was treated atrociously. All the WCW guys who sat out their contracts would have been idiots to take those offers exactly because of how much money they were worth. The PPV sold on the WCW InVasion lead by Lance Storm and Hugh Morrus still sold 750,000 buys. They could have bought the WCW guys one at a time, and they killed the angle the night before debuting Ric Flair. Whatever obstacles were in their way, the WWF put more in by themselves a) Punk and Bryan ARE draws. Of course they boosted AEW. But they have traits that get you over the hump in the main roster b) Despite bad endings, Wyatt and Ambrose were former world champions. They made it even if it was botched. Ziggler has been treated well despite not being a perennial main eventer. Nothing wrong with having Ziggler's career. Rusev is a weird one. He was over with Rusev day, yes. I'd like to see him stick around longer, but is he main eventing AEW? Mid card shouldn't been failure. As long as you are featured regularly. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 19, 2022 16:16:23 GMT -5
The PPV sold on the WCW InVasion lead by Lance Storm and Hugh Morrus still sold 750,000 buys. They could have bought the WCW guys one at a time, and they killed the angle the night before debuting Ric Flair. Whatever obstacles were in their way, the WWF put more in by themselves It did 775k, which I put down to Hebner/Patrick being announced on the go home. If we’re comparing star power and such, whilst Survivor Series is one of the best drawing editions ever at 450k, it’s still a drop from what InVasion did and the main event of SS was basically an all star cast of the WWF Attitude Era. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 19, 2022 16:21:28 GMT -5
Vince McMahon
That's the answer to every dumb booking decision
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Post by bob on Jul 19, 2022 17:04:29 GMT -5
Vince McMahon That's the answer to every dumb booking decision  |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jul 19, 2022 17:14:54 GMT -5
This isn't even the same discussion. I didn't say anything about workrate. I was talking solely about people the crowd were booing or cheering, and that included cheering Wyatt, Rusev, Ziggler, Ambrose and even Sandow. And those people chose to sit out their contracts because WWF didn't offer them enough money. Booker and Page took a 50 per cent buyout for the opportunity, and Page especially was treated atrociously. All the WCW guys who sat out their contracts would have been idiots to take those offers exactly because of how much money they were worth. The PPV sold on the WCW InVasion lead by Lance Storm and Hugh Morrus still sold 750,000 buys. They could have bought the WCW guys one at a time, and they killed the angle the night before debuting Ric Flair. Whatever obstacles were in their way, the WWF put more in by themselves a) Punk and Bryan ARE draws. Of course they boosted AEW. But they have traits that get you over the hump in the main roster b) Despite bad endings, Wyatt and Ambrose were former world champions. They made it even if it was botched. Ziggler has been treated well despite not being a perennial main eventer. Nothing wrong with having Ziggler's career. Rusev is a weird one. He was over with Rusev day, yes. I'd like to see him stick around longer, but is he main eventing AEW? Mid card shouldn't been failure. As long as you are featured regularly. I don't understand what idea you are trying to defend, and your replies seem to be to a different discussion, so I am tapping out of this |
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Jul 19, 2022 17:16:15 GMT -5
It wasn't a mistake. It went exactly as they planned. WWE does not care about giving the fans what they want or making money more than they care about winning an argument. WWE booking is powered by spite. This isn't even necessarily a criticism, I think some of WWE's spiteful booking has been some of the funniest shit they have ever done But that match was designed to tell fans they are not getting what they wanted. Sure WWE didn't WANT the show to end with twenty minutes of booing including booing The Rock, they tried everything they could to get it to work, but they wrote that match so fans would go 'oh no, Bryan is out so Roman is my hero,' and Roman will be your hero no matter what you claim to want And then they realised they could keep pushing Roman and get big TV deals and it didn't matter that everyone was booing, they were making money IN SPITE of the fans WWE history is littered with examples of them burying things that got over because they didn't create them and pushing things relentlessly despite fan reaction Nothing went wrong on this show because the fans don't matter any more This strategy will, eventually, blow up in their face because of their aging fanbase. Those TV deals can't keep being so sweet forever. But maybe by then Vince will finally be gone and they could actually have something new, creative and aimed to please the fans for once Despite the following Wrestlemania being a pretty kick ass show, I think the 2015 Royal Rumble match signals the start of the current 'our content makes money regardless, so f*** you' era. It was very much intentional. Daniel Bryan had his moment, we aren't pushing Dolph no matter how much you stuck by him and how over he was a couple years prior, and Roman is THE guy. Look, even Dwayne thinks so.. and Dwayne's a neat guy. |
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Post by Citizen Snips on Jul 19, 2022 17:18:40 GMT -5
Vince McMahon That's the answer to every dumb booking decision The guy sitting in the middle at the desk looks like the love child of Triple H and Bubba Dudley |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 19, 2022 17:22:44 GMT -5
Despite the following Wrestlemania being a pretty kick ass show, I think the 2015 Royal Rumble match signals the start of the current 'our content makes money regardless, so f*** you' era. It was very much intentional. Daniel Bryan had his moment, we aren't pushing Dolph no matter how much you stuck by him and how over he was a couple years prior, and Roman is THE guy. Look, even Dwayne thinks so.. and Dwayne's a neat guy. You’re right but the thing that fascinates me about it is how they went about doing it. WWE’s done a lot of misery booking and swerves for the sake of it but this match in particular felt like a destruction of their roster’s credibility. Like, you could have Bryan, Ziggler, Ambrose, Ryback etc get eliminated cheaply and get heat on Show and Kane so Roman can win but the way it went out felt like it was their way of saying to the crowd “These guys won’t be credible ever again”. They even went and said that people like Kofi and Mizdow were utter nobodies and they were people who were fun on the Midcard and people liked them. The whole match felt like something WCW would do for a random battle Royale where The Giant kills all the cruiserweights or Nash pins the New Blood without pinning them to make you not care about either group/division ever again. WWE doing it…it’s mind boggling. It doesn’t make sense to me, even with Vince in charge. |
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Post by Fade on Jul 19, 2022 18:01:18 GMT -5
I think because even they knew it was an uphill battle. Trying to put a square peg in a round hole. So you get what you got trying to finagle it to work and it obviously didn’t.
One of my favorite WWE moments in the last 10 years just for how bad it was.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jul 19, 2022 18:11:55 GMT -5
a) Punk and Bryan ARE draws. Of course they boosted AEW. But they have traits that get you over the hump in the main roster b) Despite bad endings, Wyatt and Ambrose were former world champions. They made it even if it was botched. Ziggler has been treated well despite not being a perennial main eventer. Nothing wrong with having Ziggler's career. Rusev is a weird one. He was over with Rusev day, yes. I'd like to see him stick around longer, but is he main eventing AEW? Mid card shouldn't been failure. As long as you are featured regularly. I don't understand what idea you are trying to defend, and your replies seem to be to a different discussion, so I am tapping out of this Maybe I misread your intent. You said that WWE would rather spite it’s fans than make money, implying that they don’t push their most over people. I’m saying that notion is false, and what the iwc would want wouldn’t make money. |
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Jul 20, 2022 5:36:01 GMT -5
That match was simply a giant f*** you from Vince McMahon.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 20, 2022 7:02:17 GMT -5
Strongly disagree. They only care about making money. I think the iwc has a hard time reconciling that there is more money potential in WWE’s picks on top guys than others that we want. Guys like Bryan and Punk are exceptions, not the rule. Good work rate guys like Tomasso Ciampa will never draw as much as Roman Reigns even if pushed well. I think we are seeing Gunther prove my theory right. There is absolutely no way for you to prove that Bryan or Punk or Ciampa couldn't achieve that. Punk drew a 1 million rating without even slightly claiming to show up, and since Bryan joined AEW too, AEW has nearly doubled its buyrates. Also, I am not only talking about Roman. WWE left billions on the table by booking the InVasion as stupidly as they did. They prioritised spite over making money in what could have been the single most lucrative angle in wrestling history. They also have form for killing things that have got over on their own, like Zack Ryder. Spite always comes first, and if not spite, pigheadedness that they are right about who the fans will like What I find even more fascinating at times with WWE booking is a history of seemingly picking match results based on "well, the smarks figured out that so-and-so is going to win here, so let's throw those bastards a screwball and have the other guy win"...but they mostly do that with no thought to what the payoff to that match result will even be. The "surprise" is more important than any sense of storytelling. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Jul 20, 2022 8:31:54 GMT -5
There is absolutely no way for you to prove that Bryan or Punk or Ciampa couldn't achieve that. Punk drew a 1 million rating without even slightly claiming to show up, and since Bryan joined AEW too, AEW has nearly doubled its buyrates. Also, I am not only talking about Roman. WWE left billions on the table by booking the InVasion as stupidly as they did. They prioritised spite over making money in what could have been the single most lucrative angle in wrestling history. They also have form for killing things that have got over on their own, like Zack Ryder. Spite always comes first, and if not spite, pigheadedness that they are right about who the fans will like What I find even more fascinating at times with WWE booking is a history of seemingly picking match results based on "well, the smarks figured out that so-and-so is going to win, here, so let's throw those bastards a screwball and have the other guy win"...but they mostly do that with no thought to what the payoff to that match result will even be. The "surprise" is more important than any sense of storytelling. See, Lesnar beating Reigns at Wrestlemania. |
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bob
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Post by bob on Jul 20, 2022 9:15:51 GMT -5
I'm going to revisit this one day on Peacock...
I remember watching live and being just astonished at how nonsensical it was booked
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