Is AEW's jobber division too obvious? (Dynamite rant)

[Deleted]

I know there are a few certified members who are obvious, like Serpentico, but AEW seems to have firmly established a glass ceiling of guys who are never, ever going to get a win on Dynamite, yet keep getting matches on the show.  Obviously, this is me ranting about why Butcher and Blade are losing again part #20591, but more importantly, it's also whether or not AEW has made it too clear that there are guys who are on the roster that get fat off of Dark tomato cans in an attempt to justify their existence?

You need people who just lose at the end of the day, yet I think the lack of variety in competition between the people that do matter on Dynamite programming and the ones that absolutely don't often makes things redundant.  Is there any way that, for example, they could squeeze more enhancement matches onto Dynamite and rotate out the cast of characters?

[Mecca]

I mean I get it but AEWs tag division is stupid deep so unfortunately when you're like 9th on the list you're gonna do jobs, ask Private Party.

[Cyno]

Jobbers have always been painfully obvious. That's not an AEW thing. That's a wrestling thing.

[Final Countdown Jones]

It may be largely on Youtube, but AEW sitll puts more effort into their jobbers than most promotions do. There's no real getting around it while you have people on the roster meant to take a fall.

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

For me, this falls under the category of things most wrestling promotions struggle with in some way or other, and I've mostly made peace with AEW's version of it, but there are still some acts (like John Silver and Evil Uno) where the cycle puts me in an eternal state of disappointed sighing.

[Mecca]

Jul 20, 2022 22:41:57 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

It may be largely on Youtube, but AEW sitll puts more effort into their jobbers than most promotions do. There's no real getting around it while you have people on the roster meant to take a fall.

And if you try to not have jobbers you end up with 50/50 booking and forever feuds where no one gets over and everything stagnates.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Jul 20, 2022 22:49:08 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

For me, this falls under the category of things most wrestling promotions struggle with in some way or other, and I've mostly made peace with AEW's version of it, but there are still some acts (like John Silver and Evil Uno) where the cycle puts me in an eternal state of disappointed sighing.

That’s the unresolvable issue with having enhancement talents. Everyone acknowledges that they’re necessary, but the only people who tend to be effective in that role are, at the same time, too good for it.

Like, you need someone who is good at wrestling, but don’t actually want getting pushed, while at the same time being liked enough that they’re tolerated in the enhancement role.

[Dub H]

Jul 20, 2022 23:27:42 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

Jul 20, 2022 22:49:08 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

For me, this falls under the category of things most wrestling promotions struggle with in some way or other, and I've mostly made peace with AEW's version of it, but there are still some acts (like John Silver and Evil Uno) where the cycle puts me in an eternal state of disappointed sighing.

That’s the unresolvable issue with having enhancement talents. Everyone acknowledges that they’re necessary, but the only people who tend to be effective in that role are, at the same time, too good for it.

Like, you need someone who is good at wrestling, but don’t actually want getting pushed, while at the same time being liked enough that they’re tolerated in the enhancement role.

which is why Luther is the perfect jobber.

but nemeth deserves more damnit

[toodarkmark]

I don't really care usually if someone wins or losses. Someone can lose all the time, I can still like them. It's a work. Sure you want your favorites to get more wins, and sometimes I disagree with a decision, but it's fine. They're still out there, wrestling, doing their thing. It's just 3 seconds at the end of the match that goes one way or another.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

Jul 20, 2022 22:27:33 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Jobbers have always been painfully obvious. That's not an AEW thing. That's a wrestling thing.

I largely agree with this. Even in boom periods like the Attitude Era, there were very over talents who were very much slotted into lower card roles and that was fine. 

[eJm]

Jul 21, 2022 9:50:23 GMT -5 "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik said:

Jul 20, 2022 22:27:33 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Jobbers have always been painfully obvious. That's not an AEW thing. That's a wrestling thing.

I largely agree with this. Even in boom periods like the Attitude Era, there were very over talents who were very much slotted into lower card roles and that was fine. 

It’s more an issue over the last decade or so when people who lose are seen as unimportant instead of their own established characters that people can root for.

Like, come on, one of the most over talents of the last 20 years was a group that had John Tenta in a gold mask carrying a Cartman doll.

[dbrussel]

No different that other companies. You can pick correctly who's gonna win the matches on Smackdown every friday

[carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army)]

It's frustrating, because early in the company's history they worked hard to make it feel like everyone was a big deal and deserved to be there, and then the roster got twice as big as it should be for the amount of TV time they have and they gave up. (and because finding something for everyone to do would require actually being active in booking the show top-down, which they for some reason don't want to do.)

I had hoped getting ROH would solve a lot of these problems, and it still might.

[Hypnosis]

Jul 21, 2022 16:09:12 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

It's frustrating, because early in the company's history they worked hard to make it feel like everyone was a big deal and deserved to be there, and then the roster got twice as big as it should be for the amount of TV time they have and they gave up. (and because finding something for everyone to do would require actually being active in booking the show top-down, which they for some reason don't want to do.)

I had hoped getting ROH would solve a lot of these problems, and it still might.

With the size of the roster being what it is now, I think a creative team is needed to ease the workload off Khan, and it would help some of the Elevation/Dark regulars make their way onto the TV shows more often.

[Cyno]

Jul 21, 2022 12:47:54 GMT -5 dbrussel said:

No different that other companies. You can pick correctly who's gonna win the matches on Smackdown every friday

That's the case with most wrestling, really. WWE, AEW, NJPW, and Impact are all pretty predictable in terms of who wins and loses. It makes the less predictable results stand out more, and swerves for the sake of swerves is why Russo is a laughingstock in most wrestling circles.

I personally tend to care more about the journey than the destination for most matches. Good in-ring storytelling will, even if the back of your head tells you that Wrestler A is definitely going to win, convince you in the moment that Person B really has a chance.

[bog]

I will say we are about due for another Dark success story. We've had acclaimed and Fuego. I guess you could argue Leyla and Ass Boys as well. Maybe some more bear country, or baron black getting a win on dynamite

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jul 21, 2022 18:00:18 GMT -5 bog said:

I will say we are about due for another Dark success story. We've had acclaimed and Fuego. I guess you could argue Leyla and Ass Boys as well. Maybe some more bear country, or baron black getting a win on dynamite

Powerhouse Hobbs came through DARK as well as Lee Moriarty

[A Platypus Rave]

Jul 21, 2022 9:46:32 GMT -5 toodarkmark said:

I don't really care usually if someone wins or losses. Someone can lose all the time, I can still like them. It's a work. Sure you want your favorites to get more wins, and sometimes I disagree with a decision, but it's fine. They're still out there, wrestling, doing their thing. It's just 3 seconds at the end of the match that goes one way or another.

There are some people are just good enough that they can lose a thousand times but still come out looking like a threat.

Samoa Joe and Chris Jericho are two of the best at that.

Not everyone can pull that off... and I think you need to have either a certain aura or have a certain level of fame before that happens... and even then sometimes it doesn't work... remember when Mick Foley basically ran himself into the ground for literally everyone in the WWE after retirement... people stopped wanting to see him face someone because it was obvious he was there to do a quick job for someone they wanted to put over as dangerous.

[toodarkmark]

Jul 21, 2022 16:20:58 GMT -5 Hypnosis said:

Jul 21, 2022 16:09:12 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

It's frustrating, because early in the company's history they worked hard to make it feel like everyone was a big deal and deserved to be there, and then the roster got twice as big as it should be for the amount of TV time they have and they gave up. (and because finding something for everyone to do would require actually being active in booking the show top-down, which they for some reason don't want to do.)

I had hoped getting ROH would solve a lot of these problems, and it still might.

With the size of the roster being what it is now, I think a creative team is needed to ease the workload off Khan, and it would help some of the Elevation/Dark regulars make their way onto the TV shows more often.

I don't think there is any problem with Tony Khan or "creative" as you put it. Marina Shafir, Willow Nightingale, Kiera Hogan, Angelo Parker, Matt Menard, Gunn Club, Daniel Gracia, Wheeler Yuta, Lee Moriarty, Tony Neese, Jay Lethal are just some of the names who were on Dark and Elevation, and who are now featured on Dynamite/Rampage and in storylines. Not to mention Powerhouse Hobbs, The Acclaimed, Anna Jay, Red Velvet, Silver and Reynolds, and so many others who started as "jobbers" and through creative, are now featured people.

Is there a name that you see regularly on Dark or Elevation that should be on TV? Because I'm seeing a lot of names out there.

[Hypnosis]

Jul 22, 2022 9:48:09 GMT -5 toodarkmark said:

Jul 21, 2022 16:20:58 GMT -5 Hypnosis said:

With the size of the roster being what it is now, I think a creative team is needed to ease the workload off Khan, and it would help some of the Elevation/Dark regulars make their way onto the TV shows more often.

I don't think there is any problem with Tony Khan or "creative" as you put it. Marina Shafir, Willow Nightingale, Kiera Hogan, Angelo Parker, Matt Menard, Gunn Club, Daniel Gracia, Wheeler Yuta, Lee Moriarty, Tony Neese, Jay Lethal are just some of the names who were on Dark and Elevation, and who are now featured on Dynamite/Rampage and in storylines. Not to mention Powerhouse Hobbs, The Acclaimed, Anna Jay, Red Velvet, Silver and Reynolds, and so many others who started as "jobbers" and through creative, are now featured people.

Is there a name that you see regularly on Dark or Elevation that should be on TV? Because I'm seeing a lot of names out there.

The last time Emi Sakura was on Dynamite was December 2019, yet she has more left to offer in the ring than Matt Hardy, who's close to the same age as her.  I know she hasn't competed in singles matches on Elevation or Dark much until just recently, but Emi's last title shot was also three years ago against Riho, yet Nyla's had numerous chances.

Abadon and Diamante haven't wrestled or done anything on AEW TV in a while.  Just the web shows.

I want the whole deal with Box Head Kip Sabian to lead somewhere, since he's been out of an AEW ring for over a year now.

Angelico getting a televised push after the debut of his new theme would be nice.