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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 13, 2022 14:05:34 GMT -5
I don't think that the rapist monster aspects don't get front-and-centered when talking about how he thinks he can come back from sexual assault allegations. I think they are very centered, and I think making any kind of light of the idea is one that inherently highlights how much of an amoral freakshow man he is. The idea he 'got bad advice' on stepping down isn't something you can divorce from the horrible things it says about Vince, but if you couch it in a funny joke about Triple H throwing a big tarp over all the people he's re-hired when Vince comes around, you make the end result of it something that doesn't need to dwell on the actual horror of his actions. I don't think for a moment that jokes about this help Vince 'get away with it' and frankly I don't feel comfortable with the idea of trying to pin any of Vince's ability to evade justice on what the fanbase does or says. Even as somebody sharply critical of the f***ing mouthbreather jackoffs who went on cheering Vince and f***ing bowing when he came out after the WSJ first broke, not one person in there is complicit in protecting and enabling his abuses. A billionaire CEO gets away with this stuff for systemic reasons, not because people get distracted by funny jokes. If you're referring to past comments I've made about how 'oh that crazy Vince' stories get lionized as something that tempers his awfulness, then yes, I do believe that. I don't think it's a part of him getting away with it, though; I think it shielded him from scrutiny from fans powerless to render justice unto him, but now that this story has been exposed and he has been deposed, any crazy Vince story is laden with an inherent sting that he was in fact every bit as monstrous as his critics said he was. People in power get away with this because they're in power. There is no mystery to what Vince did or what he is. Any joke you can make about this situation will have the specter looming over it and I think it's insulting the intelligence of people posting on the board to act like anyone isn't acutely aware of that fact. What Vince did to get deposed is reprehensible, but the audacity of wanting to come back from that and finding humour in it is I think a very healthy approach to the discussion. The jokes made about this have all been negative toward Vince. Demonizing the rapist. Pushing him away. No denfeses, no justifications, no making light of his actions, no comments to hurt the victims. They take the rapist monster and they push that he is unwanted. I'm not saying people shouldn't discuss what he did in the least; I'm defending the idea that some people might want to focus on the conversational fork where they can post some funny images in the discussion of the guy's crimes. Not just that, there's only so much that any one person can say about it that someone else hasn't already said. Also that. I mentioned it a few pages ago, but. We're on page 9X of thread two of the Vince Allegations Power Hour and neither of the cases now being brought to court are new developments. I'm genuinely glad they're getting their chances to speak and I hope against all of my cynical expectations that justice is delivered. But they've been talked about a lot and there just isn't a lot of meat on those bones.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 13, 2022 14:17:08 GMT -5
I don't think that the rapist monster aspects don't get front-and-centered when talking about how he thinks he can come back from sexual assault allegations. I think they are very centered, and I think making any kind of light of the idea is one that inherently highlights how much of an amoral freakshow man he is. The idea he 'got bad advice' on stepping down isn't something you can divorce from the horrible things it says about Vince, but if you couch it in a funny joke about Triple H throwing a big tarp over all the people he's re-hired when Vince comes around, you make the end result of it something that doesn't need to dwell on the actual horror of his actions. I don't think for a moment that jokes about this help Vince 'get away with it' and frankly I don't feel comfortable with the idea of trying to pin any of Vince's ability to evade justice on what the fanbase does or says. Even as somebody sharply critical of the f***ing mouthbreather jackoffs who went on cheering Vince and f***ing bowing when he came out after the WSJ first broke, not one person in there is complicit in protecting and enabling his abuses. A billionaire CEO gets away with this stuff for systemic reasons, not because people get distracted by funny jokes. If you're referring to past comments I've made about how 'oh that crazy Vince' stories get lionized as something that tempers his awfulness, then yes, I do believe that. I don't think it's a part of him getting away with it, though; I think it shielded him from scrutiny from fans powerless to render justice unto him, but now that this story has been exposed and he has been deposed, any crazy Vince story is laden with an inherent sting that he was in fact every bit as monstrous as his critics said he was. People in power get away with this because they're in power. There is no mystery to what Vince did or what he is. Any joke you can make about this situation will have the specter looming over it and I think it's insulting the intelligence of people posting on the board to act like anyone isn't acutely aware of that fact. What Vince did to get deposed is reprehensible, but the audacity of wanting to come back from that and finding humour in it is I think a very healthy approach to the discussion. The jokes made about this have all been negative toward Vince. Demonizing the rapist. Pushing him away. No denfeses, no justifications, no making light of his actions, no comments to hurt the victims. They take the rapist monster and they push that he is unwanted. I'm not saying people shouldn't discuss what he did in the least; I'm defending the idea that some people might want to focus on the conversational fork where they can post some funny images in the discussion of the guy's crimes. But no one has been saying not to joke around; they've been saying "hey, this other stuff is more important than the 'Vince might come back' stuff, let's talk about that." I actually am having a hard time parsing your point, even though you've been very clear about it: you understand the motivation to joke around about less serious parts of the story. But... do you think I don't? Saying "it's good to face the discomfort of starkly confronting a horrible thing" doesn't mean I don't understand people's desire to joke. (In fact, making that point suggests I do understand it, right?) Let me try to be equally clear: it makes sense to joke about it, but it also makes sense to actively remind people about what's central and what's peripheral. Honestly, what rubbed me the wrong way about your post might have been a misunderstanding: it seemed like, in the post I replied to, you were saying it was better to avoid talking about the sexual assault, because then it's harder to post about it, than to avoid talking about the sexual assault because then we can all post away. Reading this new response, it seems pretty clear you don't prioritize "posting comfortably" over "acknowledging that this is all about a rapist," so fair enough. But then I'm a little confused about what you were trying to say. If it's simply "don't chastise people using humor to deal with the situation," fine, but I don't think anyone was. And just to clarify, I definitely don't think it IS just the power, I think the audacity creates an armor on its own. People judge guilt intuitively: "Am I mad at this person? If so, they're probably guilty." "Does he act like he did anything wrong? If so, he's probably guilty." Dooming about the inevitability of his teflon-coated return and wrapping the whole thing up in irony and humor can only contribute to that. And yeah, obviously this specific forum is both too small and exactly the wrong audience to contribute terribly to that, I don't think there's anything wrong with encouraging people to not look away from the dark shit just on principle. For a few pages there, a sentiment pushing back on discussion of the Vince return stuff happened. I was agreeing with Magic about how the two stories are both worth talking about and added that I think one is just easier to talk about and lends itself to humour, and people just. Like humour. Humour keeps threads going. That of the two topics to discuss, people will gravitate toward the one that just leaves them something other than downerposting. Not that one topic is right or more valid, but just that given the choice, people taking the path of less friction for a conversation is a choice people are gonna take. I took your post to be a condemnation of that because I said that one is fun and we can put up some layers between us and the bad stuff, and one is putting the awful shit front and center with nothing else, and you led with "No but that should be front and center". Comments about the sideshow comedy stuff helping him 'get away with it' in particular kind of read to me only as a condemnation of that, so yeah, my read on it was "Don't seek refuge in memeing on stuff, we need to talk about the ugly shit", and I fundamentally disagree that joking about this isn't in fact interacting with the ugly shit, it's just doing so in a way that's easier for people to stomach. But when my post is "No this pushback is wrong, it's fine to keep discussing this because of X", then pushback against that does read as pushback against X, yeah.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 13, 2022 14:19:27 GMT -5
I just straight-up think that "No stop talking about this stuff, you need to talk about the pending rape charges" is actually kinda rancid and that's the only way to read a continued insistence that it should be talked about more.
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Post by polarbearpete on Dec 13, 2022 14:20:37 GMT -5
No thanks, Vince. We’re good.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 13, 2022 14:26:03 GMT -5
I just straight-up think that "No stop talking about this stuff, you need to talk about the pending rape charges" is actually kinda rancid and that's the only way to read a continued insistence that it should be talked about more. If this is something directed at me, then I apologise. I wasn’t trying to go “Only talk about the rape”, I was just trying to stop the “Vince wants to come back” story from getting out of control, us taking the next steps and working ourselves into a shoot that he IS coming back and talking about it though it is definitely happening.
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Post by tagteammatchplaya on Dec 13, 2022 14:31:14 GMT -5
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 13, 2022 14:32:00 GMT -5
I just straight-up think that "No stop talking about this stuff, you need to talk about the pending rape charges" is actually kinda rancid and that's the only way to read a continued insistence that it should be talked about more. If this is something directed at me, then I apologise. I wasn’t trying to go “Only talk about the rape”, I was just trying to stop the “Vince wants to come back” story from getting out of control, us taking the next steps and working ourselves into a shoot that he IS coming back and talking about it though it is definitely happening. Not at any one person, just at that subject in general.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 13, 2022 14:43:56 GMT -5
I took your post to be a condemnation of that because I said that one is fun and we can put up some layers between us and the bad stuff, and one is putting the awful shit front and center with nothing else, and you led with "No but that should be front and center". Comments about the sideshow comedy stuff helping him 'get away with it' in particular kind of read to me only as a condemnation of that, so yeah, my read on it was "Don't seek refuge in memeing on stuff, we need to talk about the ugly shit", and I fundamentally disagree that joking about this isn't in fact interacting with the ugly shit, it's just doing so in a way that's easier for people to stomach. But when my post is "No this pushback is wrong, it's fine to keep discussing this because of X", then pushback against that does read as pushback against X, yeah. Well, fair enough then, sounds like we were reading more extreme versions of what one another was saying. As Chiral learned, memey shitposts can be even funnier sandwiched between serious discussions of dark topics, so it's not hard for all this to coexist.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 76,857
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Post by Chiral on Dec 13, 2022 14:44:29 GMT -5
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Post by MrElijah on Dec 13, 2022 14:45:22 GMT -5
As an aside, has there been any recent wrestling promoter/owner in the last 35-40 years that didn't leave without any bullshit tied to them?
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 13, 2022 14:49:38 GMT -5
As an aside, has there been any recent wrestling promoter/owner in the last 35-40 years that didn't leave without any bullshit tied to them? Ted Turner. Anything you wanna say about the guy, wrestling didn't touch it.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,975
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Post by XIII on Dec 13, 2022 14:53:50 GMT -5
This reminds me of when before WMI Vince wanted to name it the Colossal Tussle, before Howard Finkel suggested WrestleMania. Oof
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 76,857
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Post by Chiral on Dec 13, 2022 14:56:22 GMT -5
This reminds me of when before WMI Vince wanted to name it the Colossal Tussle, before Howard Finkel suggested WrestleMania. Oof The genius mind behind THE BATTLE OF THE TOUGH GUYS as well lol
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Post by Richard on Dec 13, 2022 15:01:13 GMT -5
As an aside, has there been any recent wrestling promoter/owner in the last 35-40 years that didn't leave without any bullshit tied to them? Cary from ROH?
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wildojinx
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,219
Member is Online
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Post by wildojinx on Dec 13, 2022 15:02:52 GMT -5
Cant Steph and Nick just kick him upstairs and give him a meaningless but big sounding position like "Head consultant"?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2022 15:07:38 GMT -5
Triple H taking over is the first time in almost a decade that I actually have been watching Smackdown and PPV and at least parts of Raw (its really long lol).
Even subtle things like saying "fans" and "wrestling" instead of "WWE Universe" and "Sports Entertainment" give it a fresher feel.
If Vince came back and it went back to his style and the constant buzzwords I think I would probably lose interest again.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 13, 2022 15:10:11 GMT -5
Cant Steph and Nick just kick him upstairs and give him a meaningless but big sounding position like "Head consultant"? I don't think they even want to do that much, given the option. Bringing in your disgraced sex pest ex-CEO in any capacity is going to look a certain way, especially now that there's legal action being taken against him. If it can be avoided, I don't think they'd want to give him a lick of even a ceremonial hire. He'll get his Hall of Fame induction whenever they think it won't be a PR disaster, or even while it will be a PR disaster but they want to get him in while he's still in decent enough health for it, but I don't see them giving him much more than that.
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Post by Zombie Mod on Dec 13, 2022 15:16:36 GMT -5
Poor Michael Cole instinctively curled up into a ball, covering his ears and he's not sure why
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Post by ChitownKnight on Dec 13, 2022 15:47:00 GMT -5
Yeah. At this point the company just needs to take him to court, point out that he violated company bylaws, and force him to divest his stock. Honestly, I can totally see Steph and HHH willing to do that
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2022 15:52:05 GMT -5
William Regal awkwardly slides up to the BCC guys to go, "So, uh... Sorry about thaaaat..."
Having read the article I know it won't happen, but imagine Levesque having a complete meltdown and just leaving WWE go to go work for Tony Khan as head of talent relations, or something.
Like I said, won't happen, but it's a funny scenario to think about.
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