Something I came across in regards to Marty Scurl from Meltz

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

So Dave... you're saying it was so notable you can't watch any matches from then, you've been the biggest, most influential journalist this whole time... so you knew and didn't say anything?

[Mecca]

Jul 27, 2022 9:50:59 GMT -5 Gus Richlen Was Wrong said:

But nobody asked, Meltz.

It was a conversation on his forum so he chimed in.

[TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out]

Jul 27, 2022 10:45:12 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

So Dave... you're saying it was so notable you can't watch any matches from then, you've been the biggest, most influential journalist this whole time... so you knew and didn't say anything?

Everyone did, it wasn't exactly a secret. It wasn't viewed in the same light thing if adults were sleeping with post-pubecent minors until recently

Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin and the issue people had was that she was his cousin. We've only recently came around on the idea that teenagers can't exactly give willing concent to adults

[TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out]

Also, this should be a whole different topic but good on Meltz for pushing back against the "Pat Patterson was a pedo" stuff that was largely rooted in gay panic

[pinja]

There is a difference between a lie and an untruth, and there is a difference between being hypocritical and being picky.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Jul 27, 2022 11:24:28 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

Jul 27, 2022 10:45:12 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

So Dave... you're saying it was so notable you can't watch any matches from then, you've been the biggest, most influential journalist this whole time... so you knew and didn't say anything?

Everyone did, it wasn't exactly a secret. It wasn't viewed in the same light thing if adults were sleeping with post-pubecent minors until recently

Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin and the issue people had was that she was his cousin. We've only recently came around on the idea that teenagers can't exactly give willing concent to adults

That's as may be, but still not a great take when someone says they don't want to watch a pedo and the comeback is "well, pretty much everyone was a few years ago".

Ok, different time, culture, but you're not making anything look better.

[Deleted]

This is such a hornets nest of a topic because it's the collision of morality and reality.

If I had to guess, Dave is saying that societal norms change. Back then, it was illegal but it wasn't one of the hot buttons of the day. Hell, my great grandmother got married off to my great grandfather when she was 13. He was in his 30's. Do I think that's weird as shit and creepy from my 2022 perspective? Yes, yes I do, but nobody seemed to bat too much of an eye back then.

You don't condone the actions moving forward just because someone did them in the past, but if you go looking through things from a different time to be pissed off about morally, you will ALWAYS find it, just to the shifting nature of these things. That's why all you can do is be better.

[Feyrhausen]

Jul 27, 2022 10:45:12 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

So Dave... you're saying it was so notable you can't watch any matches from then, you've been the biggest, most influential journalist this whole time... so you knew and didn't say anything?

I mean plenty of comedians have admitted that Cosbys crimes were an open secret. No one said anything because he was so powerful.

Going public in those days with the fact that a lot of wrestlers sleep with underage women would only have ruined his career but not gotten anything accomplished. Pre social media it would have only been some accusations from a nobody that never would have gontten to the mainstream media.

[Allie Kitsune]

Jul 27, 2022 10:33:34 GMT -5 This Player Hating Mothman said:

Jul 27, 2022 10:29:40 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

Nah, it's a real Thing. It doesn't make it right, and it's reasonable to note that it's not a majority or overwhelming position, but it's also not an invisible or non-existent position and it's not helpful to deny that.

The only way you can deal with the f***ing Minority Report-ass insane people who come out of nowhere and don't know you but want to retroactively make your past enjoyment of someone you didn't know did a bad thing into a current and evergreen thought crime is to deny it its power and to categorize anyone who would say it into the dismissal of a garbage can. Discredit the idea and discredit the people who say it because giving any quarter to the idea that morality involves telekinesis and future-proofed purity or treating the position like it exists from the mouths of people worth regarding is to give that idea power.

Sometimes, this is difficult to do, because of all the other things that come with it, like accusations of being 100 other "bad person" things too, and their friends and allies inevitably paint you with that brush, causing more and more people to do it, and you can't defend yourself, because to defend yourself is to "admit to the crime" to them...

[Burst]

Jul 27, 2022 14:20:00 GMT -5 Allie Kitsune said:

Sometimes, this is difficult to do, because of all the other things that come with it, like accusations of being 100 other "bad person" things too, and their friends and allies inevitably paint you with that brush, causing more and more people to do it, and you can't defend yourself, because to defend yourself is to "admit to the crime" to them...

Oh right, sounds an awful like the reason I more or less stopped keeping up with furry Twitter... The folks that seemingly don't have anything else going on in their life and are constantly on social media, that suddenly appear in your feed because you followed someone who followed someone who was actually problematic... Alternatively, when you're guilty of not paying enough attention to the drama of the moment to know that this streamer or that artist or whatever is now persona non grata and the fact that you didn't immediately unfollow and denounce means that you somehow endorse whatever actually problematic thing they were doing... And then somehow it's your fault that you're NOT always glued to your feed to see the instant that someone is now problematic.

[Deleted]

Jul 27, 2022 8:32:31 GMT -5 Mecca said:

Dave Meltzer on how the amount of wrestlers who had sex with people underaged pre 2000 was "plentiful" in response to someone saying the industry has no need for Marty Scurll
fan: "the 'I goofed but it was legal' defense he put forward was f***ing disgusting he's blacklisted for life, as far as I'm concered. The industry has no need for Marty

Dave Meltzer: But you really can't watch any wrestling prior to around 2000 without being a hypocrite unless it's only Pat Patterson Matches while never waching his opponent I don't mean that everyone prior to 2000 fits into this category, but it was plentiful. That's not a defense of it, just reality


So I guess Dave is saying if you have that stance on Marty you should never watch old wrestling because those dudes all did it...

I have seen the same post on reddit.

I think it is safe to say that Dave Meltzer knows or has heard of stories of countless wrestlers and those involved in the business that did heinous things.

He mentioned that Vince was a womanizer since the 80s but it is just now we are uncovering it.

Unfortunately, there is probably a good of the wrestlers pre-2000 that had an interaction of an underage ring rat.

Also, this is not a pro-wrestling phenomena, but an entertainment industry wide issue. There are probably more rockstars that slept with teenagers than we can only imagine.

[TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out]

Jul 27, 2022 13:06:20 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Jul 27, 2022 11:24:28 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

Everyone did, it wasn't exactly a secret. It wasn't viewed in the same light thing if adults were sleeping with post-pubecent minors until recently

Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin and the issue people had was that she was his cousin. We've only recently came around on the idea that teenagers can't exactly give willing concent to adults

That's as may be, but still not a great take when someone says they don't want to watch a pedo and the comeback is "well, pretty much everyone was a few years ago".

Ok, different time, culture, but you're not making anything look better.

My point was that it wasn't an issue of people not saying anything, it was an issue of apathy/a different, shittier culture.

[Deleted]

Jul 27, 2022 10:45:12 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

So Dave... you're saying it was so notable you can't watch any matches from then, you've been the biggest, most influential journalist this whole time... so you knew and didn't say anything?

That is a good point.

My only guess is that Dave did not want to report anything without concrete evidence.

[Kalmia]

I kind of get what Meltzer is saying. Wrestling is scummy and it has always been scummy. I have no doubt that the average wrestler of the 80s and 90s was up to much worse than anything the average wrestler of today has done. But that doesn't mean we can't ask for better.

Plus, Scurll is trying to weasel his way back into mainstream wrestling. The wrestling industry should be more concerned with people that are still currently involved in wrestling than those that are no longer active.

[Mozenrath]

Jul 27, 2022 10:45:12 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

So Dave... you're saying it was so notable you can't watch any matches from then, you've been the biggest, most influential journalist this whole time... so you knew and didn't say anything?

"Knowing" and "Having proof" are two very different things, and one of the biggest f***-ups he's made was putting something out there before using a victim's name without their permission.

[Natural Born Farmer]

I think it’s important to remember that it wasn’t too long ago that the result of the President of the United States getting a beej from a much younger intern was more or less “ha, look at that old horn dog motherf***er!” for most people including women.

A lot has changed in the last 20 years or so. Dave wasn’t off base here.

[tafkaga]

Jul 27, 2022 17:35:53 GMT -5 Natural Born Farmer said:

I think it’s important to remember that it wasn’t too long ago that the result of the President of the United States getting a beej from a much younger intern was more or less “ha, look at that old horn dog motherf***er!” for most people including women.

A lot has changed in the last 20 years or so. Dave wasn’t off base here.

And those who weren't saying that were saying that his beej was a sign of the end times.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Getting awfully close to whataboutism there, Dave. Meltzer sure has a way of saying true things in a way that makes you go 'ehhhh'.

[Alice Syndrome]

Jul 27, 2022 11:24:28 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

Jul 27, 2022 10:45:12 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

So Dave... you're saying it was so notable you can't watch any matches from then, you've been the biggest, most influential journalist this whole time... so you knew and didn't say anything?

Everyone did, it wasn't exactly a secret. It wasn't viewed in the same light thing if adults were sleeping with post-pubecent minors until recently

Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin and the issue people had was that she was his cousin. We've only recently came around on the idea that teenagers can't exactly give willing concent to adults

One of the Rolling Stones took a 13 year old girl on tour with them for 5 years, got her crappy 80s birth control that gave her health problems for years, married her the moment she turned 18, then got bored of her once she stopped looking so young. Somehow he's still remembered as part of a legendary band, and not a grooming asshat who ruined a girl's life.

[Woo]

In Marty's case the girl wasn't under the age of consent. That's not the problem here. The issue is that she was under the age for alcohol consumption and she was drunk and supplied alcohol which means she couldn't have given consent.