Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jul 27, 2022 8:32:31 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer on how the amount of wrestlers who had sex with people underaged pre 2000 was "plentiful" in response to someone saying the industry has no need for Marty Scurll fan: "the 'I goofed but it was legal' defense he put forward was f***ing disgusting he's blacklisted for life, as far as I'm concered. The industry has no need for Marty
Dave Meltzer: But you really can't watch any wrestling prior to around 2000 without being a hypocrite unless it's only Pat Patterson Matches while never waching his opponent I don't mean that everyone prior to 2000 fits into this category, but it was plentiful. That's not a defense of it, just reality
So I guess Dave is saying if you have that stance on Marty you should never watch old wrestling because those dudes all did it...
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 27, 2022 8:46:13 GMT -5
Cool, any grown wrestlers who f***ed a teenager before the year 2000 also can go to hell. I don't go to Dave Meltzer for moral guidance.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jul 27, 2022 8:48:33 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer on how the amount of wrestlers who had sex with people underaged pre 2000 was "plentiful" in response to someone saying the industry has no need for Marty Scurll fan: "the 'I goofed but it was legal' defense he put forward was f***ing disgusting he's blacklisted for life, as far as I'm concered. The industry has no need for Marty Dave Meltzer: But you really can't watch any wrestling prior to around 2000 without being a hypocrite unless it's only Pat Patterson Matches while never waching his opponent I don't mean that everyone prior to 2000 fits into this category, but it was plentiful. That's not a defense of it, just reality So I guess Dave is saying if you have that stance on Marty you should never watch old wrestling because those dudes all did it... That’s such a lame attempt at a defense/deflection. We don’t know about those individuals and what exactly they did so obviously we wouldn’t treat them the same as someone that we do actually know about.
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Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
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Post by Burst on Jul 27, 2022 8:48:47 GMT -5
This isn't really intended as a defense of anyone so much as an observation, but if you think of the backstage culture of the 80s and 90s in particular and where the whole ring rat thing overlaps with band groupies and shit, and then think about how many songs from that era sound really, really awkward now because they're all grown-ass men singing about sixteen year olds... yeah, he's probably not wrong, unfortunately.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jul 27, 2022 8:49:24 GMT -5
Cool, any grown wrestlers who f***ed a teenager before the year 2000 also can go to hell. I don't go to Dave Meltzer for moral guidance. I actually pondered it after he said it, it's really weird how much more acceptable all that was back then, I mean shit Jerry Seinfeld had the biggest show on tv and had a 17 year old GF when he was 40 and no one really cared.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 27, 2022 8:55:25 GMT -5
Cool, any grown wrestlers who f***ed a teenager before the year 2000 also can go to hell. I don't go to Dave Meltzer for moral guidance. I actually pondered it after he said it, it's really weird how much more acceptable all that was back then, I mean shit Jerry Seinfeld had the biggest show on tv and had a 17 year old GF when he was 40 and no one really cared. It's all kinds of messed up how many people just kind of overlooked that stuff even when it was decently in the public eye, and I'm glad there's enough pushback generally to shame people doing that kind of shit and slam them for it, but man it feels weird whn people act like because people turned a blind eye to this twenty years ago, that somehow complaining about it now is pointless or hypocritical or whatever. Meltzer is far from the only one rocking that nonsense.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jul 27, 2022 8:59:03 GMT -5
I actually pondered it after he said it, it's really weird how much more acceptable all that was back then, I mean shit Jerry Seinfeld had the biggest show on tv and had a 17 year old GF when he was 40 and no one really cared. It's all kinds of messed up how many people just kind of overlooked that stuff even when it was decently in the public eye, and I'm glad there's enough pushback generally to shame people doing that kind of shit and slam them for it, but man it feels weird whn people act like because people turned a blind eye to this twenty years ago, that somehow complaining about it now is pointless or hypocritical or whatever. Meltzer is far from the only one rocking that nonsense. I think it comes from the mindset of "if you wanna rail this guy everyone you liked growing up sucks too, acknowledge that" that or dudes that were around in those times are just like desensitized to it.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jul 27, 2022 8:59:57 GMT -5
Meltzer is not wrong. But he doesnt understand that we can demand accountability from people right now while we cannot do anything about the past. Sometimes you just have to move on from the past while improving things now and for the future.
My response to Meltzer would be Ok Boomer.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Jul 27, 2022 9:01:40 GMT -5
I sort of get what he's saying here. It was still wrong then, but yeah, twenty odd years ago it perhaps happened more and people were pretty casual about it, and not just in wrestling.
However, and this is a massive however, Scurll and whoever else did it at a time when attitudes towards it had changed, so while it may be the case that it was relatively commonplace pre-2000, you can't really compare the two situations and it's not unreasonable to have an issue with Scurll now even with the past in mind.
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dreidemy
Hank Scorpio
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Post by dreidemy on Jul 27, 2022 9:38:15 GMT -5
Creepy views toward women coming from Dave Meltzer? I'm SHOCKED
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Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
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Post by Burst on Jul 27, 2022 9:49:28 GMT -5
The more I think on this, the more I'm realizing it's aggravatingly reductive in both directions. By basically saying "oh everybody did it", he's both trivializing the issue while also unnecessarily implicating the wrestlers who, y'know, didn't, whatever proportion of the population of wrestlers that may have actually been.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Jul 27, 2022 9:50:59 GMT -5
But nobody asked, Meltz.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Post by Bo Rida on Jul 27, 2022 9:55:36 GMT -5
He's missing the questions was it consensual and/or did they abuse a position of power?
YMMV but I'm going to judge rapists and power abusers more harshly than guys in the 80s having consexual sex with 16 year olds.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
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Post by tafkaga on Jul 27, 2022 10:06:36 GMT -5
I sort of get what he's saying here. It was still wrong then, but yeah, twenty odd years ago it perhaps happened more and people were pretty casual about it, and not just in wrestling. However, and this is a massive however, Scurll and whoever else did it at a time when attitudes towards it had changed, so while it may be the case that it was relatively commonplace pre-2000, you can't really compare the two situations and it's not unreasonable to have an issue with Scurll now even with the past in mind. When I was 21-22, people at my church tried to match me with a 16 year old. Her parents and mine were totally cool with it. I never dated her and in hindsight I'm glad I didn't, but not because I found it morally questionable, since all the adults in my life just acted like it was completely normal. Granted, this is maybe not quite the same as some 35-40 year old dude boinking a teenager in some seedy hotel room, but I think it's an indicator of where people's minds were/still are to a great extent on that issue.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jul 27, 2022 10:17:08 GMT -5
It's all kinds of messed up how many people just kind of overlooked that stuff even when it was decently in the public eye, and I'm glad there's enough pushback generally to shame people doing that kind of shit and slam them for it, but man it feels weird whn people act like because people turned a blind eye to this twenty years ago, that somehow complaining about it now is pointless or hypocritical or whatever. Meltzer is far from the only one rocking that nonsense. I think it comes from the mindset of "if you wanna rail this guy everyone you liked growing up sucks too, acknowledge that" that or dudes that were around in those times are just like desensitized to it. Better yet. ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU ARE AN EVIL PERSON FOR HAVING EVER LIKED THEM, AND MUST BE PUNISHED FOR IT.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Jul 27, 2022 10:21:14 GMT -5
10 bucks, Marty eventually makes it back to ROH.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 27, 2022 10:24:56 GMT -5
I think it comes from the mindset of "if you wanna rail this guy everyone you liked growing up sucks too, acknowledge that" that or dudes that were around in those times are just like desensitized to it. Better yet. ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU ARE AN EVIL PERSON FOR HAVING EVER LIKED THEM, AND MUST BE PUNISHED FOR IT. Real people don't do this. One or two goons on twitter do this. They aren't real people.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
Grimlock
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jul 27, 2022 10:29:40 GMT -5
Better yet. ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU ARE AN EVIL PERSON FOR HAVING EVER LIKED THEM, AND MUST BE PUNISHED FOR IT. Real people don't do this. One or two goons on twitter do this. They aren't real people. Nah, it's a real Thing. It doesn't make it right, and it's reasonable to note that it's not a majority or overwhelming position, but it's also not an invisible or non-existent position and it's not helpful to deny that.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 27, 2022 10:33:34 GMT -5
Real people don't do this. One or two goons on twitter do this. They aren't real people. Nah, it's a real Thing. It doesn't make it right, and it's reasonable to note that it's not a majority or overwhelming position, but it's also not an invisible or non-existent position and it's not helpful to deny that. The only way you can deal with the f***ing Minority Report-ass insane people who come out of nowhere and don't know you but want to retroactively make your past enjoyment of someone you didn't know did a bad thing into a current and evergreen thought crime is to deny it its power and to categorize anyone who would say it into the dismissal of a garbage can. Discredit the idea and discredit the people who say it because giving any quarter to the idea that morality involves telekinesis and future-proofed purity or treating the position like it exists from the mouths of people worth regarding is to give that idea power.
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Post by cassonova on Jul 27, 2022 10:44:09 GMT -5
There is definitely a difference in holding current people accountable for their actions rather than whitewashing history because people are terrible.
However, we cannot hold previous generations accountable per se, as they aren't always active or a role which accountability can be served. I'm all for enjoying the past, but doesn't mean I want current offenders to profit. Even now, I am grudgingly able to watch a Marty Scurry match from 2016, but that doesn't mean I want to pay money to see him now or fully support a show willing to book him. I say this as someone who went all in on the villain shtick.
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