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Post by The Rick Jericho on Jul 27, 2022 19:45:00 GMT -5
Re-watching the Raw 1997 Goldust interview with Jim Ross. Ross mentions Scott Hall refusing to wrestle Goldust. Dustin mentions "that hurt me, hit me below the waist. I couldn't understand it."
So how did this get all twisted in 1997? Let's go back to 1996 for a bit. There was a promo Razor cut saying "he doesn't want his kids watching this kind of stuff". Now there was all the WCW negotiations and he got "suspended" and missed Wrestlemania due to a "failed" drug test shortly after giving notice to go to WCW. Did Hall truthfully find the WWF becoming to raunchy?
So where is the truth in all of this?
Did Scott Hall outright refuse to work with Goldust after the Royal Rumble 1996? Did he refuse to even work with him period? Were there actually real issues between Rhodes and Hall at the time? They were scheduled for a Miami Street Fight at Wrestlemania 12, so at least there's evidence of them working again by Wrestlemania time.
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Post by Andee9001 on Jul 27, 2022 20:04:42 GMT -5
The issue for Hall was all the homoerotic overtones. He felt uncomfortable with the angle and didn't want his son to see his dad getting hit on by another man on tv.
He was slated for the mania match with Goldust but when he refused to do the angle he was replaced with Piper. I'm unsure if the suspension happened before or after he gave his intentions to sign with WCW but either way he saw the suspension as a punishment.
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Jul 27, 2022 20:11:48 GMT -5
Hall's whole "oozing with machismo" character made him an ideal opponent for Goldust, on paper. In practice, I think Razor's "ewww gross" reactions to Goldust's antics just made him look silly and detracted from his image. Hall probably felt that too.
Piper was a better match for Goldust, because he could kiss Dustin on the lips and somehow it added to his swagger.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Jul 27, 2022 20:13:35 GMT -5
Given the culture at the time, and how far Dustin was pushing the envelope, I really can't blame Hall for this.
There's homoerotic undertones to wrestling all the time, but I don't think it's unreasonable as a performer to maybe not work with someone who's schtick is accidentally grabbing your junk and otherwise trying to do inappropriate things.
Dustin, a straight man with a wife and children, was willing to get breast implants to sell the character. He was that committed.
Would YOU want to work with someone like that?
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Jul 27, 2022 20:50:47 GMT -5
Given the culture at the time, and how far Dustin was pushing the envelope, I really can't blame Hall for this. There's homoerotic undertones to wrestling all the time, but I don't think it's unreasonable as a performer to maybe not work with someone who's schtick is accidentally grabbing your junk and otherwise trying to do inappropriate things. Dustin, a straight man with a wife and children, was willing to get breast implants to sell the character. He was that committed. Would YOU want to work with someone like that? Yes. I'm not a homophobe
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Jul 27, 2022 20:53:41 GMT -5
Given the culture at the time, and how far Dustin was pushing the envelope, I really can't blame Hall for this. There's homoerotic undertones to wrestling all the time, but I don't think it's unreasonable as a performer to maybe not work with someone who's schtick is accidentally grabbing your junk and otherwise trying to do inappropriate things. Dustin, a straight man with a wife and children, was willing to get breast implants to sell the character. He was that committed. Would YOU want to work with someone like that? Yes. I'm not a homophobe I don't think not wanting a co-worker to grab your penis, try and kiss you, or otherwise make unwanted advances in the context of a live performance makes one a homophobe.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Jul 27, 2022 21:08:33 GMT -5
I’ll take Hall at face value and say he was uncomfortable with the angle. The original Goldust character was trash, no matter how hard Dustin tried to make it work. They tried to argue that it was something deep and mysterious, but it wasn’t. Almost all the heat was on this guy groping and making sexual advances on other dudes and playing into the common stereotype of the day that gay people are sexual deviants. And if Hall was uncomfortable participating in that, I don’t blame him.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Jul 27, 2022 21:08:34 GMT -5
I don't think not wanting a co-worker to grab your penis, try and kiss you, or otherwise make unwanted advances in the context of a live performance makes one a homophobe. I mean... kinda?
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Jul 27, 2022 22:23:47 GMT -5
I don't think not wanting a co-worker to grab your penis, try and kiss you, or otherwise make unwanted advances in the context of a live performance makes one a homophobe. I mean... kinda? Not kinda. Not consenting to having your junk fondled by someone does not make you anything except for someone who does not want your junk-fundled by that particular person and/or in that particular setting.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Jul 27, 2022 22:44:42 GMT -5
Not kinda. Not consenting to having your junk fondled by someone does not make you anything except for someone who does not want your junk-fundled by that particular person and/or in that particular setting. Ok. Ok. You're right on that. But I wouldn't refuse to work with him. Id set guidelines, but I'd work with him.
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Post by thegatewaydrug on Jul 27, 2022 23:00:58 GMT -5
I don't think not wanting a co-worker to grab your penis, try and kiss you, or otherwise make unwanted advances in the context of a live performance makes one a homophobe. Overheard in Feb '96 from some magazine writer, probably: "Bro - HR Dept. complaint form on a pole match."
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tirtefaa
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Post by tirtefaa on Jul 28, 2022 4:38:19 GMT -5
Goldust is one of my favorite wrestling personalities ever.
That said, this was before WWF decided to go full fledged Attitude Era, so I understand how some parents wouldn't want their children exposed to some of those antics. With Hall, I'm guessing that maybe his children weren't old enough to understand what he was doing. Who knows.
It's actually too bad that Goldust happened when he did because by the time the Attitude Era picked up, he had cooled down dramatically and wasn't likely to reach his former successes.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 28, 2022 5:09:28 GMT -5
Goldust was a significantly more interesting character once Marlena was in the picture and they revealed that Goldust was playing mindgames. Still, I can't say I missed it when they toned a lot of that down on his 2002 return.
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Jul 28, 2022 8:10:02 GMT -5
I thought Goldust had a high ceiling when his strangeness was a bit more ambiguous and creepy. When he turned into the guy whose whole thing was kissing his opponents on the lips and over the top sexual antics, he was more like a publicity stunt than an actual character that had long term potential.
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Jul 28, 2022 10:13:50 GMT -5
Goldust was a significantly more interesting character once Marlena was in the picture and they revealed that Goldust was playing mindgames. Still, I can't say I missed it when they toned a lot of that down on his 2002 return. 2002 Goldust was some of my favorite work of his with the BookDust segments and Goldust impersonating Steve Irwin in the NWO's locker room.
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Post by buckethead on Jul 28, 2022 10:27:00 GMT -5
Given the culture at the time, and how far Dustin was pushing the envelope, I really can't blame Hall for this. There's homoerotic undertones to wrestling all the time, but I don't think it's unreasonable as a performer to maybe not work with someone who's schtick is accidentally grabbing your junk and otherwise trying to do inappropriate things. Dustin, a straight man with a wife and children, was willing to get breast implants to sell the character. He was that committed. Would YOU want to work with someone like that? Yes. I'm not a homophobe I had no idea that not wanting to be sexually harassed/assaulted by a man means you're a homophobe. Outrage culture has just hit rock bottom...
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jul 28, 2022 10:37:44 GMT -5
I don't think not wanting a co-worker to grab your penis, try and kiss you, or otherwise make unwanted advances in the context of a live performance makes one a homophobe. I mean... kinda? No it doesnt. Not wanting someone you don't like to fondle you is completely different from hating someone for being gay. By that logic everyone should just be comfortable with anyone rubbing and grabbing them in a sexual manner at any time.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Jul 28, 2022 13:31:37 GMT -5
Hall's whole "oozing with machismo" character made him an ideal opponent for Goldust, on paper. In practice, I think Razor's "ewww gross" reactions to Goldust's antics just made him look silly and detracted from his image. Hall probably felt that too. Piper was a better match for Goldust, because he could kiss Dustin on the lips and somehow it added to his swagger. First thing I thought about after reading the first post, was how much better Piper worked off of Goldust.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jul 28, 2022 13:48:13 GMT -5
I think it's worth point out that Razor said after the fact that he wishes he would have done it and regrets being uncomfortable with it, because they could have done some good stuff.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jul 28, 2022 13:53:22 GMT -5
No it doesnt. Not wanting someone you don't like to fondle you is completely different from hating someone for being gay. By that logic everyone should just be comfortable with anyone rubbing and grabbing them in a sexual manner at any time. I mean, you'll find plenty of people on Twitter (and some non-gaming Twitch streamers too) who would make that exact argument...
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