fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,792
|
Post by fw91 on Aug 5, 2022 21:23:11 GMT -5
Consider this a spinoff of the talent who will be depushed by HHH thread. I Know it's too early in the game but just hear me out. I like how HHH is able to set up a story and it's noticeable. However, I don't like who he chooses to play it out. I've made it known here that I consider the NXT and Main roster audiences to be two different entities, with the latter being more attached to larger than life characters. And at the risk of how people view me here over the last few years, I'll die on that sword. Most of the main crowd is rather indifferent to NXT talent. Having said that, I'm a bit worried and dissapointed that guys who Vince featured like Ezekiel/Elias, Theory, (who has shown improvement since the winter), Madcap and others will fade away into obscurity in favor of guys that don't get the crowd to pop like Ciampa, Kross and other NXT alum. Sure we will get good matches, but will anyone care and will it translate well to an entertaining tv show? Am I being too cynical and looking at things the wrong way? I'm very pleased that this section seems to be more fun and comfortable to talk about WWE in a favorable way don't get me wrong, but I don't like that proven over acts especially Ezekiel are going to get the short end of the stick for not being a workhorse. Like if I had it my way. Take Vince's picks of pushed talent and stick them with HHH's creative direction, and you have a hell of a program.
|
|
|
Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Aug 5, 2022 21:25:10 GMT -5
I'm glad that Vince's favorites are being downplayed and I hope it continues. Nothing against them personally, but Vince shouldn't be allowed to be happy. He's a bad man and he made WWE a miserable viewing experience for a very long time. Nothing he wants should ever happen on WWE programming ever again.
|
|
Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,526
|
Post by Fade on Aug 5, 2022 21:27:56 GMT -5
Consider this a spinoff of the talent who will be depushed by HHH thread. I Know it's too early in the game but just hear me out. I like how HHH is able to set up a story and it's noticeable. However, I don't like who he chooses to play it out. I've made it known here that I consider the NXT and Main roster audiences to be two different entities, with the latter being more attached to larger than life characters. And at the risk of how people view me here over the last few years, I'll die on that sword. Most of the main crowd is rather indifferent to NXT talent. Having said that, I'm a bit worried and dissapointed that guys who Vince featured like Ezekiel/Elias, Theory, (who has shown improvement since the winter), Madcap and others will fade away into obscurity in favor of guys that don't get the crowd to pop like Ciampa, Kross and other NXT alum. Sure we will get good matches, but will anyone care and will it translate well to an entertaining tv show? Am I being too cynical and looking at things the wrong way? I'm very pleased that this section seems to be more fun and comfortable to talk about WWE in a favorable way don't get me wrong, but I don't like that proven over acts especially Ezekiel are going to get the short end of the stick for not being a workhorse. Like if I had it my way. Take Vince's picks of pushed talent and stick them with HHH's creative direction, and you have a hell of a program.I absolutely agree with this but it’s looking like he’s busting out “his toys”…everyone’s got their favorites. I got faith he’ll push these dudes right in the “larger than life” mentality but..we’ll see. Ya know even Meltzer brought this up on talk is Jericho saying trips had acknowledged in the past the way he booked NXT wouldn’t necessarily be right for the main roster but…lol..
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,792
|
Post by fw91 on Aug 5, 2022 21:27:59 GMT -5
I'm glad that Vince's favorites are being downplayed and I hope it continues. Nothing against them personally, but Vince shouldn't be allowed to be happy. He's a bad man and he made WWE a miserable viewing experience for a very long time. Nothing he wants should ever happen on WWE programming ever again. Unfortunately, that's become a valid rebuttal. Although, Elias/Ezekiel is proven to get over and make chicken salad out of chicken shit. He shouldn't be cast away to main event.
|
|
msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,562
|
Post by msc on Aug 5, 2022 21:49:14 GMT -5
I'm glad that Vince's favorites are being downplayed and I hope it continues. Nothing against them personally, but Vince shouldn't be allowed to be happy. He's a bad man and he made WWE a miserable viewing experience for a very long time. Nothing he wants should ever happen on WWE programming ever again. Or, you know, hear me out, maybe WWE has spent too long with people's careers being at the hoc of an old man's jollies and this sort of thing should f*** off? Just a theory.
|
|
|
Post by hashtagdaley/JudasDay on Aug 5, 2022 22:01:33 GMT -5
I'm glad that Vince's favorites are being downplayed and I hope it continues. Nothing against them personally, but Vince shouldn't be allowed to be happy. He's a bad man and he made WWE a miserable viewing experience for a very long time. Nothing he wants should ever happen on WWE programming ever again. I know hyperbole is your thing, but cutting guys and girls careers out at the knees who did nothing other than Vince liking them is pretty shitty. Lol
|
|
|
Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Aug 5, 2022 22:09:26 GMT -5
Consider this a spinoff of the talent who will be depushed by HHH thread. I Know it's too early in the game but just hear me out. I like how HHH is able to set up a story and it's noticeable. However, I don't like who he chooses to play it out. I've made it known here that I consider the NXT and Main roster audiences to be two different entities, with the latter being more attached to larger than life characters. And at the risk of how people view me here over the last few years, I'll die on that sword. Most of the main crowd is rather indifferent to NXT talent. Having said that, I'm a bit worried and dissapointed that guys who Vince featured like Ezekiel/Elias, Theory, (who has shown improvement since the winter), Madcap and others will fade away into obscurity in favor of guys that don't get the crowd to pop like Ciampa, Kross and other NXT alum. Sure we will get good matches, but will anyone care and will it translate well to an entertaining tv show? Am I being too cynical and looking at things the wrong way? I'm very pleased that this section seems to be more fun and comfortable to talk about WWE in a favorable way don't get me wrong, but I don't like that proven over acts especially Ezekiel are going to get the short end of the stick for not being a workhorse. Like if I had it my way. Take Vince's picks of pushed talent and stick them with HHH's creative direction, and you have a hell of a program. In fairness I don't think that Madcap, Theory, Omos etc translated into an entertaining TV show. The only questionable push right now is Kross. The only questionable omission right now is Ezekial. I don't think Vince had a great eye for talent on the whole. "Is Tall" and "OMG Muscles!" isn't enough. Anyone that did succeed only did so when they were finally able to get enough clout to be more of themselves in presentation. From Cena to Roman this is true. I'd rather have 1 ready made superstar (like Ciampa, or really any of the dozens of people HHH handed to Vince on a silver platter from NXT) rather than 100 Madcap Moss's, or Omos's. And if it means someone like Mustafa Ali can be booked as a valiant babyface, and not some racist bullshit, then hell yeah, move the other people out and make room for the people past due and more than ready. (and I know that's not what you were saying, I just wanted to make a point).
|
|
|
Post by mistery on Aug 5, 2022 22:20:09 GMT -5
I'm glad that Vince's favorites are being downplayed and I hope it continues. Nothing against them personally, but Vince shouldn't be allowed to be happy. He's a bad man and he made WWE a miserable viewing experience for a very long time. Nothing he wants should ever happen on WWE programming ever again. Unfortunately, that's become a valid rebuttal. Although, Elias/Ezekiel is proven to get over and make chicken salad out of chicken shit. He shouldn't be cast away to main event. Ezekiel/Elias was getting flat reactions outside of his feud with KO. The Ezekiel gimmick has ran its course at this point. As for Theory, the dude absolutely needs to be depushed for awhile. He was all over WWE TV despite having borderline negative levels of charisma. Have him fail his cash in, and then move him down to the lower midcard for a bit until he finds a personality. The only time he was truly entertaining in WWE was when he was Johnny Gargano's idiot "son". Vince very rarely had an eye for good talent. Keep in mind his idea of stars rarely aligned with what the audience wanted as well. Any time a Becky, Daniel Bryan, or Kofi got their "moment", Vince had to be dragged kicking and screaming to it basically. Because he didn't see them as stars until the audience forced his hand for many, many, many months. That's ignoring Vince outright telling Dakota Kai that she would never make it on the main roster, and he had no interest at all in bringing Iyo up either.
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,792
|
Post by fw91 on Aug 5, 2022 22:25:13 GMT -5
Unfortunately, that's become a valid rebuttal. Although, Elias/Ezekiel is proven to get over and make chicken salad out of chicken shit. He shouldn't be cast away to main event. Ezekiel/Elias was getting flat reactions outside of his feud with KO. The Ezekiel gimmick has ran its course at this point. As for Theory, the dude absolutely needs to be depushed for awhile. He was all over WWE TV despite having borderline negative levels of charisma. Have him fail his cash in, and then move him down to the lower midcard for a bit until he finds a personality. The only time he was truly entertaining in WWE was when he was Johnny Gargano's idiot "son". . then bring back Elias full time. Anyway I slightly disagree about Theory. He's not ready for a world title, but there's something there where he can handle a lengthy mid card title reign and be molded for the future. He passed the "What?" test with flying colors imo, and was starting to get real heel heat.
|
|
|
Post by darbus alan on Aug 5, 2022 22:27:48 GMT -5
Theory looked like was going to be a classic "Vince likes this guy" rocket push only to be forgotten about once someone dangled shiny keys in front of his face and sent to Midcard Hell for the majority of his career. Look how long it took McIntyre to finally overcome that stink.
At least with Triple H at the helm, he has a better chance of getting long-term success. That and goofy himbo Austin Theory in NXT was endearing in a way McMahon's Chosen One never was.
|
|
welshpenguin
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 15,751
Member is Online
|
Post by welshpenguin on Aug 5, 2022 22:30:05 GMT -5
Ezekiel/Elias was getting flat reactions outside of his feud with KO. The Ezekiel gimmick has ran its course at this point. As for Theory, the dude absolutely needs to be depushed for awhile. He was all over WWE TV despite having borderline negative levels of charisma. Have him fail his cash in, and then move him down to the lower midcard for a bit until he finds a personality. The only time he was truly entertaining in WWE was when he was Johnny Gargano's idiot "son". . then bring back Elias full time. Anyway I slightly disagree about Theory. He's not ready for a world title, but there's something there where he can handle a lengthy mid card title reign and be molded for the future. He passed the "What?" test with flying colors imo, and was starting to get real heel heat. We may need to give Elias time to regrow his beard lol or he can just glue it on in the meantime. Also I agree about Theory.
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,792
|
Post by fw91 on Aug 5, 2022 22:31:52 GMT -5
Theory looked like was going to be a classic "Vince likes this guy" rocket push only to be forgotten about once someone dangled shiny keys in front of his face and sent to Midcard Hell for the majority of his career. Look how long it took McIntyre to finally overcome that stink. At least with Triple H at the helm, he has a better chance of getting long-term success. That and goofy himbo Austin Theory in NXT was endearing in a way McMahon's Chosen One never was. In Drew's case, the difference was he wasn't over in the slightest until 3MB. No reaction. The response with Theory is there, although I agree with your last point.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Aug 5, 2022 22:47:00 GMT -5
Consider this a spinoff of the talent who will be depushed by HHH thread. I Know it's too early in the game but just hear me out. I like how HHH is able to set up a story and it's noticeable. However, I don't like who he chooses to play it out. I've made it known here that I consider the NXT and Main roster audiences to be two different entities, with the latter being more attached to larger than life characters. And at the risk of how people view me here over the last few years, I'll die on that sword. Most of the main crowd is rather indifferent to NXT talent. Having said that, I'm a bit worried and dissapointed that guys who Vince featured like Ezekiel/Elias, Theory, (who has shown improvement since the winter), Madcap and others will fade away into obscurity in favor of guys that don't get the crowd to pop like Ciampa, Kross and other NXT alum. Sure we will get good matches, but will anyone care and will it translate well to an entertaining tv show? Am I being too cynical and looking at things the wrong way? I'm very pleased that this section seems to be more fun and comfortable to talk about WWE in a favorable way don't get me wrong, but I don't like that proven over acts especially Ezekiel are going to get the short end of the stick for not being a workhorse. Like if I had it my way. Take Vince's picks of pushed talent and stick them with HHH's creative direction, and you have a hell of a program. In fairness I don't think that Madcap, Theory, Omos etc translated into an entertaining TV show. The only questionable push right now is Kross. The only questionable omission right now is Ezekial. I don't think Vince had a great eye for talent on the whole. "Is Tall" and "OMG Muscles!" isn't enough. Anyone that did succeed only did so when they were finally able to get enough clout to be more of themselves in presentation. From Cena to Roman this is true. I'd rather have 1 ready made superstar (like Ciampa, or really any of the dozens of people HHH handed to Vince on a silver platter from NXT) rather than 100 Madcap Moss's, or Omos's. And if it means someone like Mustafa Ali can be booked as a valiant babyface, and not some racist bullshit. Then hell yeah, move the other people out and make room for the people past due and more than ready. (and I know that's not what you were saying, I just wanted to make a point). Also like it's not like Madcap was doing anything post the Corbin feud.. he was in money in the bank but as the still black trunks wearing gimmickless dude...
|
|
|
Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 5, 2022 23:01:13 GMT -5
I still think a lot of the issue of NXT guys 'not getting reactions' came down to issues of how Vince handled them. Triple H found and developed talents for what he wanted, then Vince got his hands on them, had no idea what he was doing, and they floundered. So many people who were 'cooler in NXT', got their work dumbed down, and were penciled into crappy places. Now, Triple H has a chance to prove or disprove that theory, but I think being able to direct the show differently will pay off big time.
Also yes, better matches will translate to it being a good show. It's a wrestling show. Good wrestling on a wrestling show isn't the one magic piece to make things better but it is absolutely part of a good wrestling show.
|
|
|
Post by sunnytaker on Aug 5, 2022 23:04:39 GMT -5
I'm glad that Vince's favorites are being downplayed and I hope it continues. Nothing against them personally, but Vince shouldn't be allowed to be happy. He's a bad man and he made WWE a miserable viewing experience for a very long time. Nothing he wants should ever happen on WWE programming ever again. Unfortunately, that's become a valid rebuttal. Although, Elias/Ezekiel is proven to get over and make chicken salad out of chicken shit. He shouldn't be cast away to main event. well i mean if they don;t work out there's always Elrod to give it his best shot. being the youngest he'd fit in perfectly with the "building young stars" timeframe
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Aug 5, 2022 23:45:01 GMT -5
I still think a lot of the issue of NXT guys 'not getting reactions' came down to issues of how Vince handled them. Triple H found and developed talents for what he wanted, then Vince got his hands on them, had no idea what he was doing, and they floundered. So many people who were 'cooler in NXT', got their work dumbed down, and were penciled into crappy places. Now, Triple H has a chance to prove or disprove that theory, but I think being able to direct the show differently will pay off big time. Also yes, better matches will translate to it being a good show. It's a wrestling show. Good wrestling on a wrestling show isn't the one magic piece to make things better but it is absolutely part of a good wrestling show. Yeah, Vince was pretty obviously the reason why the NXT people "failed to get over". Hell Finn Balor was THE most over person on the roster the day he was originally drafted... and he wasn't even on the show. They went insane when his name showed up as being drafted. Literally all teh other people called up had stupid changes to them for no real reason... see the War Raiders Viking EXPERIENCE! or the Revival basically not doing anything for like... a year? and let's not act like HHH didn't push Austin Theory either. HHH got Theory over... to the point that Vince wanted him back... and then they stripped him of his entire gimmick.
|
|
|
Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 6, 2022 0:05:27 GMT -5
And let’s also add to all this, the pitch for NXT when it started was to showcase the future of the company so that when they were on the main roster, people would know who they were and make some of that stuff easier for the company itself. Why do a bunch of leg work trying to explain who someone is when you have the Network or a TV show on the same channel as your flagship to showcase clips from? “You’ve seen them on NXT, now see them against your favorite main roster talent”?
One of the bigger issues is they just don’t do that. I can get the trademark thing with a guy like WALTER except the fact he’s been on PPVs and your TV show as WALTER because you were cashing in on his marketability at time and the better chance to change his name for those purposes was in NXT UK, the developmental to your developmental. The reason people know Finn Balor as Finn Balor is because it was changed almost right away and people had their gripes but you got used to it. Because it’s developmental and the chance to build characters.
One of my biggest hopes through all this is that all this gets streamlined and HHH, being head of talent relations and head of creative, is able to make sure the road from someone being signed to getting called up isn’t some wonky nonsense where someone’s character in developmental is one that can work on the main roster or else why sign them at all? Round shapes into round holes and all that.
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,792
|
Post by fw91 on Aug 6, 2022 0:13:42 GMT -5
And let’s also add to all this, the pitch for NXT when it started was to showcase the future of the company so that when they were on the main roster, people would know who they were and make some of that stuff easier for the company itself. Why do a bunch of leg work trying to explain who someone is when you have the Network or a TV show on the same channel as your flagship to showcase clips from? “You’ve seen them on NXT, now see them against your favorite main roster talent”? One of the bigger issues is they just don’t do that. I can get the trademark thing with a guy like WALTER except the fact he’s been on PPVs and your TV show as WALTER because you were cashing in on his marketability at time and the better chance to change his name for those purposes was in NXT UK, the developmental to your developmental. The reason people know Finn Balor as Finn Balor is because it was changed almost right away and people had their gripes but you got used to it. Because it’s developmental and the chance to build characters. One of my biggest hopes through all this is that all this gets streamlined and HHH, being head of talent relations and head of creative, is able to make sure the road from someone being signed to getting called up isn’t some wonky nonsense where someone’s character in developmental is one that can work on the main roster or else why sign them at all? Round shapes into round holes and all that. But as the numbers show, more about 2/3's of the main roster audience don't watch NXT. It seemed more well known pre USA which is odd. And the early takeover days imo had more talent that were "sports entertainment," So much so that Vince let HHH be and quite a few call ups (KO, Sami, Enzo, Cass, even Shinskue Horsewomen) were all moderately successful. As black and gold progressed towards the 2020's it got really stale with workhorse talent. The matches were great, but it again from my perspective you can tell that many of these guys outside maybe Adam Cole were gonna fit in the main roster. That's why I feel like at the time, going to 2.0 was the right call.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2022 0:22:09 GMT -5
As black and gold progressed towards the 2020's it got really stale with workhorse talent. This is true but it's not really due to the talent that was being featured as much as it was the booking. The Rock in his prime would've looked like wrestling's biggest dork if he was booked the way Johnny Gargano was from the Ciampa feud onward.
|
|
|
Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 6, 2022 0:25:52 GMT -5
I’ll just add this;
With HHH’s new responsibilities, he’s basically the guy that Buck stops at now. He’s head of creative, he’s head of developmental. If he ends up going on a streak where his ideas don’t get over and suck and he undermines developmental, then we’ll be questioning his decisions as well as the McMahon/Khan connection on top for still keeping him there.
Just as it was when Vince was basically running everything and letting NXT get away from the system he wanted to get talent through on. All of that was on him for not going to HHH and saying “This was isn’t working, let’s do it like this” and it was one of the reasons why, for as good as NXT was at points, it was hard for people to get invested in it.
|
|