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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Aug 22, 2022 1:37:18 GMT -5
Punk's, I dunno, it's been too long for me to really recall. AJ's, though, sadly no. He still really should have lost the title to Nakamura to make the Shinsuke heel turn work. Not like he couldn't have lost it back to AJ in a month or two, anyway, it'd have still done a lot to make that reign more interesting. Yeah, the constant DQ's or straight up losses really defanged Nakamura as a heel. You can't keep getting close to winning and then not and be considered credible... and the last thing you want on someone that you just turned to be a main event heel is for them to have no credibility. Punk's from what I remember after a point just seemed to be long to go long... so he could lose the title to the Rock and make the Cena rematch for the title... even though it didn't really need it.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 22, 2022 2:06:45 GMT -5
Punk at least turned during his reign to shift its tone some.
AJ stayed the same throughout didn't he?
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,273
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Post by chazraps on Aug 22, 2022 2:09:30 GMT -5
The Punk reign has aged like milk. I can’t believe that some people still prop it up as some all time amazing run of fantastic matches, promos and programs. When he wasn’t against Cena, shit was middddddd The Jericho matches were excellent, especially the Chicago Street Fight at Extreme Rules 2012.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Aug 22, 2022 2:13:09 GMT -5
The Punk reign has aged like milk. I can’t believe that some people still prop it up as some all time amazing run of fantastic matches, promos and programs. When he wasn’t against Cena, shit was middddddd The Jericho matches were excellent, especially the Chicago Street Fight at Extreme Rules 2012. The Extreme Rules match was great, but I always thought the Mania one was f***ing terrible. The first half is doing the stupid Jericho trying to bait a DQ stuff that drags on and on and on then the second half is just them kind of rolling around with no pulse to it. Speaking of matches that should have been good, Money in the Bank 2012 against Bryan comes to mind when I think of awful Punk matches.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Aug 22, 2022 6:48:30 GMT -5
I dont like long title reigns, so no, not for me.
In a scripted show where the belt is just a prop, having it changing hands all the time adds a greater sense of excitement to the product and gives you a steady stream of top tier guys you can move up and down.
When you have long reigns, you encourage one guy and lots of scrubs who cant get the job done, which kills your ability to elevate and make new stars.
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Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Aug 22, 2022 7:39:05 GMT -5
Even with hindsight both reigns were f***ing awful. *nods and points up*
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 7:45:46 GMT -5
The Punk reign has aged like milk. I can’t believe that some people still prop it up as some all time amazing run of fantastic matches, promos and programs. When he wasn’t against Cena, shit was middddddd The Jericho matches were excellent, especially the Chicago Street Fight at Extreme Rules 2012. I've seen some hate for the WM match here (it does get off to a rough start with the "If Punk gets DQed he loses the title" crap), but I think it's great. I didn't love it when I first watched it, but after revisiting it like 4 or 5 years ago it became my favorite match from the show. The Extreme Rules match was also great and I love the Over the Limit match with Bryan, too. AJ's just felt like one underwhelming match after another. I dunno if he was working hurt then or what.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Aug 22, 2022 7:54:03 GMT -5
All but one title reign looks better compared to Brock. Even Del Rio. Doesn't mean they were good though.
The exception is Jinder.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Aug 22, 2022 8:02:07 GMT -5
I guess I’m the opposite of most people here since I generally like many long title reigns, if I’m entertained by said champion enough.
Believe me, I totally understand why someone would become bored with them quickly. And belts being traded between two particularly hot wrestlers can be thrilling, won’t deny that.
For me a strong champion for a given time period makes the belt come off like a difficult title to attain, something only the toughest or shrewdest superstar can achieve. That adds a ton of value to a belt in my eyes.
Like Goldberg’s 1998 run felt like a busted-powerful boxing or MMA champ, something akin to Fedor in PRIDE or Tyson in the 80’s. He had an intrigue of “when is the night coming that this dude is finally stopped”.
If the champion is having fun matches, like Cena’s strong work through his 2006-2007 title reign and his US title run, or Okada from 2016-2018, and they’re defeating the different challengers in a variety of ways, then that’s whipped cream on the sundae. Okada especially made that IWGP belt feel like the most important title on the planet then.
Heel runs are harder to pull off with this because the heel needs a clear top face down their throats to keep the drama going. Yeah, they probably should have pulled the trigger on Luger, but Yokozuna was a strong champion partly because he was a great big man worker *and* he had Undertaker and Luger as present threats so that he wasn’t just a boring invincible wall. Flair of course had Dusty and Sting to play off of.
With Punk, to me he felt like a high level guy before he won the WWE title, and I didn’t see his run when he beat Del Rio going necessarily a year but I was sure it’d be a while before someone got it off him. It being the Rock, maybe wrestling’s biggest attraction ever, to end it does add w bit of prestige to it at the end for me. I wouldn’t say he felt that much below Cena in the tier, he was 1b to John’s 1A but he was a *cracked* 1B , an especially strong one who could beat the 1A at any given night.
Lesnar’s runs obviously show the downside in how that can be managed, but part of that is the consequence of one of wrestling and MMA’s greatest monster heels of all time both having strong negotiation power and also hating traveling and preferring farm living.
AJ’s run was fine IMO, not incredible but not horrible either. Skunky finishes hurt it a little, but it had high match quality.
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Post by canceled4truth on Aug 22, 2022 8:09:25 GMT -5
I wasn't watching during AJ's title reign but Punk's reign hella dragged towards the end. Granted, I think that was because WWE had a pretty shallow roster at the time — once he got past Daniel Bryan Danielson and Jericho, who was left? A green Ryback? Sheamus and Ziggler way before they were ready to be main eventers? Del Rio again? Big Show and Kane in the main event for the millionth time? No thanks.
AJ, at least on paper (which is the only way I can comment on it, lol), didn't have any shortage of credible challengers — Nakamura, though the feud was botched, that's not even AJ's fault (Nak should've beaten Jinder or Orton in 2017), Danielson, Joe, KO, Sami, Miro, etc.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Aug 22, 2022 8:10:04 GMT -5
Punk should have lost to Ryback. Flat out. Clean as a f***ing sheet. Ryback was stupid over It wouldn't have hurt to put the title on him the 3-6 weeks Punk was out and have him get back the title but they needed to keep Punk with the title for the record And, honestly, there wasn't even a point to that. It's not like anyone is ever going to even get close to Hogan's reign, let alone Backlund's or Bruno's.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Aug 22, 2022 9:09:49 GMT -5
the only problem with AJ's reign is that they really should have put the belt on Shinsuke at Wrestlemania. other than that both of these reigns were always pretty great IMO
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 22, 2022 9:55:47 GMT -5
Ryback was stupid over It wouldn't have hurt to put the title on him the 3-6 weeks Punk was out and have him get back the title but they needed to keep Punk with the title for the record And, honestly, there wasn't even a point to that. It's not like anyone is ever going to even get close to Hogan's reign, let alone Backlund's or Bruno's. The point was he as the longest champion since those guys (not counting Mox nothing run as U.S. champion) and that was the biggest talking point he can say He was the guy that brought back the year long reigns as world champion since beforehand for a few years it was 6 months at best
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Jonathan Michaels
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Aug 22, 2022 10:48:52 GMT -5
Punk's, I dunno, it's been too long for me to really recall. AJ's, though, sadly no. He still really should have lost the title to Nakamura to make the Shinsuke heel turn work. Not like he couldn't have lost it back to AJ in a month or two, anyway, it'd have still done a lot to make that reign more interesting. Yeah, the constant DQ's or straight up losses really defanged Nakamura as a heel. You can't keep getting close to winning and then not and be considered credible... and the last thing you want on someone that you just turned to be a main event heel is for them to have no credibility. Punk's from what I remember after a point just seemed to be long to go long... so he could lose the title to the Rock and make the Cena rematch for the title... even though it didn't really need it. Exactly. At the very least, you gotta keep them winning other belts, build their resume, it did wonders for Miz, that’s a big reason why he can lose as often as he does and still be a credible threat.
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Post by sportatorium on Aug 22, 2022 11:00:56 GMT -5
I think with both guys and Lesnar & Reigns it was Vince's booking that made them drag. I love wrestlers holding the top belts for a long time. I personally think it adds credibility to the champion and the title.
Vince's post attitude era booking took weird formulaic turns that really prevented things from getting over. Cena/Orton should be fondly remembered as if it were Flair & Sting, but it's mostly groanworthy.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Aug 22, 2022 11:45:11 GMT -5
I do remember that AJ’s long run started so they didn’t have to have a Brock/Jinder match at Survivor Series and then Brock/AJ was an awesome match.
Then they were coming up on Survivor Series the next year, seemed to realize they were going to have the same match again, Bryan won the title real quick and then Brock/Bryan was an awesome match.
So we did get two awesome Survivor Series matches out of AJ’s otherwise lame reign.
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knightboat
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Post by knightboat on Aug 23, 2022 0:57:49 GMT -5
With both, especially AJ, at least you were guaranteed a great match. He should have dropped it to Nakamura, but I doubt it was his call
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Aug 24, 2022 14:41:16 GMT -5
Honestly the only great match I can think of AJ had during his run as champion was the six-way at Fast Lane and that match was a case where everyone else did all the work while he took a nap the whole time then ran in and won. The Nakamura and Owens & Zayn matches in particular were dire.
Related note actually, are AJ and KO just incapable of having a good match together? I think every time I've seen them face each other it's been awful.
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Ben Wyatt
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Aug 24, 2022 17:53:44 GMT -5
Punk's reign was also mired in the beginning by a mini feud with John Laurinaitis where they did a Dollar Store rehash of the McMahon/Austin feud
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