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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Aug 25, 2022 3:29:09 GMT -5
Whether it be STW or Grilling JR, a lot of "Wrestling people" say Dr Death would have made good money for the WWE if not for Brawl for it All. But I remember seeing him as a kid/teen and really just not being interested in him at all. He just seemed like he didn't fit in. He was not all that different from Dan Severn, and Dan could not get over in the WWE either. Fans were not really gravitating to silent angry types in the late 90's
This is not an indictment against him or his work. I actually grew to like his Japanese work and appreciated it for what it was, but in the late 90's WWE was VERY character heavy and to go anywhere in that era, you needed to be able to talk on the mic. You also needed an over the top character.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Aug 25, 2022 3:45:37 GMT -5
Nope. And from DSOTR, when people claimed that the Brawl for All injuries Dr. Death sustained ended up costing the WWF $5 million in potential feud money is simply ludicrous. 1998 Austin would not be taking suplexes from a guy like Dr. Death.
Sometimes people inside wrestling smoke too much of the hopium and buy into the kayfabe that they sell to the marks. And people like Jim Ross or Jim Cornette are too inside the wrestling bubble to see that regular fans just did not care about this particular Steve Williams and more so in 1998 versus 1988.
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Post by jimmyjames on Aug 25, 2022 3:45:39 GMT -5
I don't think so. Lets be honest, if not for Jim Ross he doesn't get signed and even if he did, he would not have been pushed like him was. Obviously, JR is biased toward him but I think a lot of the others with this mindset are still thinking of Dr. Death in his twenties and early thirties. Even though he was only in his late 30s in WWF/E, you could tell he had a lot of miles on him and probably wasn't going to be around long. I thought he was well into his 40s and it wasn't until Darkside of the Ring that I found out he was younger. Character wise, you're right and WWF/E tried a lot of different things with him and they just didn't work.
I also think a lot of people use his injury in Brawl for it All as an example of what was wrong with it and why it was so stupid so they exaggerate the effects his injury had on the business. No way in hell would Stone Cold and Dr. Death Steve Williams been this blockbuster multi million dollar main event like JR and others say.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 25, 2022 3:48:01 GMT -5
If he didn't get injured even before the stupid Brawl for All, eh? Like, I don't think he'd have set the world on fire, but he could have probably done alright. I do think that JR has come right out and said he thought Williams had one more run in him, but that he felt he was wrong. I don't know, though, it just kind of depends on what your expectations were.
He could cut promos and be more energized than Severn, but I think he probably would have still needed to be paired with someone else. It's not like the tag scene of the time he came in was jam packed full of stars. If Cornette was still around, which I can't recall offhand, give him Williams and see if that goes anywhere.
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msc
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Post by msc on Aug 25, 2022 3:58:52 GMT -5
I have my doubts, but then, they never played to Dr Death's strengths, put an injured man in a tough man contest to placate management egos, and left him high and dry.
Bring him in as a quick killer, a suplex machine, give him a manager, see if undefeated guy vs WWF Champion has legs. If it does, PPV it. If it doesn't, its a decent RAW main event and another feather in Austin's cap. You can picture it now. "No chance in hell, Austin, this man is undefeatable!" (Stunner later) "GODDAMNIT"
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Aug 25, 2022 6:11:36 GMT -5
Nah, Dr. Death didn’t have much of a look, didn’t have any promo skills, and didn’t have a lot of physical charisma. He was much more suited for the old NWA or Japan which not coincidentally is where he had almost all of his success. All he had was that he was tough and could throw a suplex, in short he was Dan Severn with backing from someone in the office. Hell, Severn, was more legit because he actually had real MMA fights and won not to mention that Hall of Fame mustache.
JR’s boner for all things Oklahoma is ridiculous. lol
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Aug 25, 2022 6:24:14 GMT -5
No.
Even if healthier, he was really out of place in 1998 American Pro Wrestling.
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Post by chronocross on Aug 25, 2022 6:42:00 GMT -5
Maybe as a hired gun for the Corporation, he can have Shane as his manager but that's about it.
He could feud with Austin for a month or so but nothing further than that.
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hassanchop
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Post by hassanchop on Aug 25, 2022 7:42:01 GMT -5
He could have worked but not as the guy, I could see them pushing him as a legend of the past, and some kind of transitional champion, have him be the big star of the previous decade pass the torch to future stars such as The Rock or Triple H. I mean they didn't have Savage or Warrior and didn't Russo want Warrior signed in 98?
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Aug 25, 2022 8:59:05 GMT -5
If Dr. Death and Gordy had been in the shape they were 5-6 years ago, they might have been able to come in as a duo and bring their Japan schtick to the United States. Otherwise, I don't see solo Steve Williams as really fitting into any American wrestling company in the late 1990's.
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Aug 25, 2022 9:39:19 GMT -5
Maybe as a hired gun for the Corporation, he can have Shane as his manager but that's about it. He could feud with Austin for a month or so but nothing further than that. Yeah... I think if WWE needed someone for 1-2 month to feud for Austin, I think he could've done it. However, I can't see him being a "Big Bad" for Austin at that point.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Aug 25, 2022 9:40:52 GMT -5
Dr Death was never super over in America in his prime to begin with. So it’s not like he was this big star that WWF fans would have known a lot about. So you’re left with a 38 year old guy who looked like he was in his mid 40s who wasn’t a great promo out there working with Steve Austin, DX, and The Rock? There is no way it would’ve worked. Maybe he could’ve been in the Big Bossman’s role, but far more WWF fans knew who Ray Traylor was than knew Steve Williams.
The idea that Steve Williams Vs Steve Austin would’ve been a big money feud in 1998 or 1999 is so absurd it’s barely worth discussing seriously.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Aug 25, 2022 10:43:49 GMT -5
people forget the part where he also blew out one of his legs when he got knocked out by Bart Gunn. dude was held together with hopes and prayers by that point. and Vince would have been an idiot to go with a Steve Austin/Steve Williams program when The Rock, and to a lesser extent Taker, Foley and Triple H were all right there.
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Feyrhausen
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Post by Feyrhausen on Aug 25, 2022 11:53:11 GMT -5
As straight from the 80s Dr Death he could have been over, just not Attitude Era main event over. At best he would have been a better version of the BossMan, an enforcer type who gets an Austin match at a lesser PPV. And it would suck because he would not get to go all out against Austin.
Now if they could find some gimmick to repackage him with Kane style maybe he could have been a big deal. Probably still not a long term Austin opponent due to wanting to protect Austin. But maybe he could be in main events with Foley, Rock, H, and Taker.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Aug 25, 2022 12:11:24 GMT -5
As straight from the 80s Dr Death he could have been over, just not Attitude Era main event over. At best he would have been a better version of the BossMan, an enforcer type who gets an Austin match at a lesser PPV. And it would suck because he would not get to go all out against Austin. Big Boss Man as a point of comparison highlights a lot of important differences why Ray Traylor worked in the WWF in 1998 when Steve Williams didn't. Boss Man was a lot lighter compared to his first WWF run. He freshened the look of his gimmick significantly. He was always a good talker and had great facial expressions and reactions, all of which are why Boss Man heeling on Al Snow and Big Show still stand out as comically evil actions more than 20 years later. Dr. Death didn't do or have any of those things at the time.
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Post by sungod2020 on Aug 25, 2022 12:14:07 GMT -5
I find it amazing that he was given an action figure despite barely being used. He wasn't seen since he got knocked out by Bart Gunn in July(I think) 98, until he returned the following spring as a Jim Ross guy. I said it in another thread and I'll say it here. He was the Attitude Era's Outback Jack. Brought in to be a big deal only to be immediately forgotten about. The difference between him and Jack though was they realized how embarrassing he(Jack) was in the ring, and i'm saying this as someone who dosen't pay attention to wrestling ability. You can tell he hasn't gotten any training. With Dr. Death, they were stupid enough to risk his mystique and put him in a shoot fighting tournament to prove how "legit" tough he was so he can face "Stone Cold" in a match no one would care about. If they wanted to have him fight Austin, at least rig the damn thing and then they can have a match on a RAW(not a PPV) just to get it out of the way, only for him to job and be pushed down the card. And I'm being nice here. He's just not a WWF style wrestler, especially during that time when being "just a wrestler" wouldn't cut it. He would feel out of place in the cartoon Rock n' Wrestling era (during his prime) as well. I think he was brought in just to make Jim Ross happy/shut him up.
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Post by Aceorton on Aug 25, 2022 12:25:12 GMT -5
Anyone could have gotten over as a Corporation pit bull as long as the following were true:
- Vince McMahon does most of the talking - this wrestler is essentially a proxy for him against Austin - Wrestler is portrayed as a scary MOF'er and has a devastating-looking finish - Austin is willing to look a little vulnerable against the guy for a while before ultimately being able to beat him
Dr. Death could have been successful under those circumstances. Severn, too, honestly. But would they have actually used him that way? Who knows.
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Squirrel Master
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Post by Squirrel Master on Aug 25, 2022 12:25:43 GMT -5
I was intrigued by Jim Ross’ ranting promo where he was disgusted about the gimmick WWF wanted for Steve Williams was for him to don a scary Noh mask and cape as a nightmarish heel managed by JR himself. Seems they were thinking of a prototype Lord Tensai gimmick as early as then. Doctor Death was received well in Japan certainly due to his look. Why didn’t WWF show some clips of him wrecking shit in Japan whilst the Japanese crowds gasped in unison (as they do whenever someone does a great move). After a couple of weeks we’d all be awaiting a good debut in WWF rings. If so, he might have started off on better footing, with hard fought losses to the top level guys. But Jim Ross was lobbying hard for Williams and the front office was not keen on his ideas. Maybe JR wanted the Noh gimmick and they nixed it and that’s why he was pissed off.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Aug 25, 2022 12:31:52 GMT -5
Maybe if he wore some kind of harness that gave him robot tentacles.
Doctor Deathtopus.
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Aug 25, 2022 12:45:30 GMT -5
Dr. Death and Severn rag dolling the Hardy’s, E&C, and brawling with the Outlaws and Dudley’s is honestly probably the best use of both of them. Give them a manager that can talk. 🤷🏻♂️
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