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Post by flowercity on Aug 25, 2022 7:26:23 GMT -5
AEW has a problem and I don’t know how they fix it.
Leading into last night’s Punk/Mox match a large swath of fans (including me) believed that the unification match would have a non finish. Why? AEW never does dq or countout finishes for big matches. It’s a strong principle they have adhered to since the forming of the company. Yet no one believes it. The WWE (and WCW, TNA, etc) have conditioned fans to think this way. There’s no other explanation. Decades of bogus finishes have made people think everyone this is the only way to book.
How does AEW overcome this stigma? It clearly hurts them, even though they have done nothing to facilitate these feelings.
This doesn’t even get into the fact that a lot of the same people assuming a schmozz ending also crap on AEW for giving a decisive finish last night.
So what do you do? How do you convince your audience this won’t happen in your promotion? What changes can be made? Or do you keep doing what you’re doing and maybe it takes a decade or so to convince your audience?
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 25, 2022 7:33:57 GMT -5
In regards to people expecting a DQ, it’s not really conditioning as much as putting two and two together. A unification title match 2 weeks before your PPV just seems asinine on its own. You’re giving away “free money” on TV for one of the biggest matches you can and will book in your company.
Only thing AEW can do is keep doing what they doing. If you go in with the attitude damned if you do and damned if you don’t you basically messing yourself up from jump and TK can’t really do that
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Aug 25, 2022 7:39:08 GMT -5
I said it in the main thread, but people were complaining that AEW was too predicable in what was going to happen, well the last few weeks have certainly kept us guessing.
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Post by lavelleuk22 on Aug 25, 2022 8:00:29 GMT -5
How does AEW overcome this stigma? It clearly hurts them, even though they have done nothing to facilitate these feelings. So what do you do? How do you convince your audience this won’t happen in your promotion? What changes can be made? Or do you keep doing what you’re doing and maybe it takes a decade or so to convince your audience? I'm confused by what you mean by these parts? You say they have done nothing to facilitate those feelings...but surely literally all they can do is have decisive finishes. I don't mean that as a dig, but I just don't get what more they can do other than simply not having loads of DQ's or count-outs? The only other thing would be literally telling the fans "don't worry this will have a finish promise" but I think breaking kayfabe that blatantly would be much worse lol Only option would be to make every match no count-out no DQ. But this isn't really a wrestling issue imo. Any "smart" fan of any TV show or genre will be able to predict where storylines are going after a while. When you watch Friends or Frasier you aren't expecting the girl Frasier or Joey meets in series 3 episode 2 who only gets 1 line to be the girl they go on to marry. You can predict they will break up. When you watch Supernatural and Sam or Dean dies 6 episodes into a series you don't think "well, guess the show continues without them" when the main bad guy of that series gets confronted 20 minutes into episode 11 you don't actually expect them to defeat the devil there and then. TV shows are pretty easy to break down in the same way wrestling is, I just think not enough people treat wrestling like an actual TV show, which at the end of the day is all that Dynamite is So yeah, any big fan of wrestling will always have those thoughts in there head, and unless you can stop people thinking or guessing it will always be there. Nothing you can do about it as a booker, fan or company owner. Can't change human nature Always reminds me of going to my first WWE house show, me and my friend were sat in front of a kid, I'd say between 6-9, with his very uninterested mum. He kept telling her what would happen throughout every match "So Matt Hardy hit the side effect but it'll get a two count, it always does" "Because he's doing the taunt first HBK won't hit the superkick, but he will get it on the second try later" he was a kid, but because he watched and analysed he basically knew exactly how everything will go. That's just life. That said it made me feel like a huge idiot watching it, how can you sit and enjoy something while a small child is openly saying how predictable everything is, even if that kid was doing it because of how excited he was and how much he loved it. I felt like I was watching a basic children's TV show haha |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 25, 2022 8:04:10 GMT -5
I don't think it needs to be fixed and I don't think there's anything AEW can do to fix it. We even have the very common trend the past few months of Excalibur or Tony insisting that they will stay with a match as long as they have to past the hour. They don't do much with overruns most of the time, but it's at least the promise that TV time will not end a title match. This company has existed for three years now, and the highest profile schmozz I can think of was Kenny trying to bust up Penta vs. OC's #1 contender match, which ended with "Kenny you're an idiot, we're doing a triple threat" and was meant to make Callis look like a dumbass for giving him the order. AEW has already done everything it can, in particular by visiting the well of non-finishes almost never. We've had more time limit draws than DQs, and it took until January of this year for someone to win by disqualification on Dynamite. Even that one was a cheeky story beat. If AEW's booking hasn't proven by now that philosophy is what it's sticking with then there's not really anything that can be done and it's not worth throwing themselves at.
That said, I don't think occasionally wondering if something goes to a disqualification is a bad thing. Last night's match was one where nobody knew what was going to happen and DQ finishes definitely felt on the table regardless of the booking philosophy around disqualifications. That helped it in my eyes; anything was on the table, and frankly Mox squashing Punk was way more unexpected than a bait and switch DQ to build up the PPV would have been, but it needed that underlying idea behind it for this to truly come out of left field.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 8:48:09 GMT -5
I said it in the main thread, but people were complaining that AEW was too predicable in what was going to happen, well the last few weeks have certainly kept us guessing. For me, AEW has been crazy as f*** for at least a month and a half... and I'm only talking about the on screen product. It's like Tony took that criticism about things being too predictable to heart. |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Aug 25, 2022 11:44:04 GMT -5
To me, the big sin from last night wasn't the finish or anything to do with the CM Punk vs. Moxley unification match at all, but the fact that we are going into the go home week without any inkling as to what the All Out main event/world title match is going to be.
Obviously, the quick match was not what I expected at all, but regardless of what anyone thought it was going to be, I think everyone at least expected we would find out what the title match for the PPV would be, if nothing else. Instead, we are going into the go home week for All Out with a big gaping hole in the card, which is unprecedented for AEW. Even the RoH title match for Death Before Dishonor promised a mystery opponent for Gresham in advance. Here, we don't even know if there will be a title match at this point, but without a match on the level of Briscoes/FTR to fall back on.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Aug 25, 2022 11:48:59 GMT -5
To me, the big sin from last night wasn't the finish or anything to do with the CM Punk vs. Moxley unification match at all, but the fact that we are going into the go home week without any inkling as to what the All Out main event/world title match is going to be. Obviously, the quick match was not what I expected at all, but regardless of what anyone thought it was going to be, I think everyone at least expected we would find out what the title match for the PPV would be, if nothing else. Instead, we are going into the go home week for All Out with a big gaping hole in the card, which is unprecedented for AEW. Even the RoH title match for Death Before Dishonor promised a mystery opponent for Gresham in advance. Here, we don't even know if there will be a title match at this point, but without a match on the level of Briscoes/FTR to fall back on. IS there a big gaping hole, though? Meltzer says they're still doing the match at All Out. |
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Post by Mecca on Aug 25, 2022 11:49:32 GMT -5
To me, the big sin from last night wasn't the finish or anything to do with the CM Punk vs. Moxley unification match at all, but the fact that we are going into the go home week without any inkling as to what the All Out main event/world title match is going to be. Obviously, the quick match was not what I expected at all, but regardless of what anyone thought it was going to be, I think everyone at least expected we would find out what the title match for the PPV would be, if nothing else. Instead, we are going into the go home week for All Out with a big gaping hole in the card, which is unprecedented for AEW. Even the RoH title match for Death Before Dishonor promised a mystery opponent for Gresham in advance. Here, we don't even know if there will be a title match at this point, but without a match on the level of Briscoes/FTR to fall back on. IS there a big gaping hole, though? Meltzer says they're still doing the match at All Out. If they're doing it again then it's not a hole they just haven't told us how they're getting there yet. |
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Post by flowercity on Aug 25, 2022 12:12:05 GMT -5
In regards to people expecting a DQ, it’s not really conditioning as much as putting two and two together. A unification title match 2 weeks before your PPV just seems asinine on its own. You’re giving away “free money” on TV for one of the biggest matches you can and will book in your company. This is assuming there is only one way to successfully book. Times are much different now. Maybe in the 90s putting this match on TV was bad business but now wrestling companies live and die by their TV contracts. They are far more important than PPV buys. Which is why it’s important for fans to know and expect decisive finishes, and not tune out because they just assume it’ll be a schmozz |
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Aug 25, 2022 12:16:21 GMT -5
I said it in the main thread, but people were complaining that AEW was too predicable in what was going to happen, well the last few weeks have certainly kept us guessing. I"ve never done coke...but the last few weeks of being an AEW fan is what I imagine doing coke feels like. Shit has been incredibly wild (and that still feels like an understatement) |
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Mecca
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Post by Mecca on Aug 25, 2022 12:18:56 GMT -5
I said it in the main thread, but people were complaining that AEW was too predicable in what was going to happen, well the last few weeks have certainly kept us guessing. I"ve never done coke...but the last few weeks of being an AEW fan is what I imagine doing coke feels like. Shit has been incredibly wild (and that still feels like an understatement) Apparently I should try some coke. |
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Aug 25, 2022 12:27:46 GMT -5
I"ve never done coke...but the last few weeks of being an AEW fan is what I imagine doing coke feels like. Shit has been incredibly wild (and that still feels like an understatement) Apparently I should try some coke. I wouldn’t really recommend it haha That being said, I say AEW should stay the course. They had the same problem with the Cody no title shot stip, everybody expected them to break it. It honestly might take until the next generation of wrestling fans to come up before the majority of fans legitimately believe they won’t break stips or have shitty finishes |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 12:29:09 GMT -5
I said it in the main thread, but people were complaining that AEW was too predicable in what was going to happen, well the last few weeks have certainly kept us guessing. I"ve never done coke...but the last few weeks of being an AEW fan is what I imagine doing coke feels like. Shit has been incredibly wild (and that still feels like an understatement) Tell me about it. I really need to get off here and do something else, but I can't stop coming back... there are three or four threads in this section right now that are just too entertaining to stay away from. |
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Aug 25, 2022 12:32:11 GMT -5
I"ve never done coke...but the last few weeks of being an AEW fan is what I imagine doing coke feels like. Shit has been incredibly wild (and that still feels like an understatement) Tell me about it. I really need to get off here and do something else, but I can't stop coming back... there are three or four threads in this section right now that are just too entertaining to stay away from. Oh saaaame. I work from home and run 2 monitors. I have pretty much kept FAN open in a tab on one of those windows non-stop lately…and when I’m taking a smoke break like right this second? I’m browsing and commenting from my phone. this place is as fun as it’s ever been right now, can’t lie 😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 12:34:06 GMT -5
Tell me about it. I really need to get off here and do something else, but I can't stop coming back... there are three or four threads in this section right now that are just too entertaining to stay away from. Oh saaaame. I work from home and run 2 monitors. I have pretty much kept FAN open in a tab on one of those windows non-stop lately…and when I’m taking a smoke break like right this second? I’m browsing and commenting from my phone. this place is as fun as it’s ever been right now, can’t lie 😂 And the mods haven't even had to step in and suspend people like they're Eddie Kingston and Thunder Rosa. |
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Mecca
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Post by Mecca on Aug 25, 2022 12:36:43 GMT -5
Oh saaaame. I work from home and run 2 monitors. I have pretty much kept FAN open in a tab on one of those windows non-stop lately…and when I’m taking a smoke break like right this second? I’m browsing and commenting from my phone. this place is as fun as it’s ever been right now, can’t lie 😂 And the mods haven't even had to step in and suspend people like they're Eddie Kingston and Thunder Rosa. Don't make me pie face you. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 15:59:42 GMT -5
Oh saaaame. I work from home and run 2 monitors. I have pretty much kept FAN open in a tab on one of those windows non-stop lately…and when I’m taking a smoke break like right this second? I’m browsing and commenting from my phone. this place is as fun as it’s ever been right now, can’t lie 😂 And the mods haven't even had to step in and suspend people like they're Eddie Kingston and Thunder Rosa. Yeah if this took place last year we would have had to shut the board down after 20 years or so lol |
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Post by Bo Rida on Aug 25, 2022 16:04:41 GMT -5
I"ve never done coke...but the last few weeks of being an AEW fan is what I imagine doing coke feels like. Shit has been incredibly wild (and that still feels like an understatement) Tell me about it. I really need to get off here and do something else, but I can't stop coming back... there are three or four threads in this section right now that are just too entertaining to stay away from. Imagine next year's prediction threads. Absolutely anything is completely plausible now. |
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