Do you believe Punk was happy in AEW? If so, what happened?

[jimmycon]

Sept 9, 2022 10:51:56 GMT -5 Denny Zen is Cooking™ said:

Sept 9, 2022 10:46:12 GMT -5 jimmycon said:

I was actually thinking about this earlier today. I went back and watched Punk’s promo from 3rd June when he announced his broken foot. It was really hard to square that (clearly sad but overall pretty positive) cm punk with the bitter, angry dude that came back three months later.

So I don’t think it was just Hangman’s promo, it feels like something really snapped in his mindset during the injury, to the point I started wondering if he deep down didn’t really want to come back, but felt obligated and was subconsciously looking for a way out. Who knows, I’m just guessing like all of us are really.

I sincerely think Punk saw himself as a Chicago institution on the level of, like, Harry Caray and Michael Jordan and getting mixed reactions there while doing his "you're not fighting me, you're fighting CHICAGO" schtick really set him off more than anything. 

True plus weren’t a few people chanting colt cabana at him at the start of that promo?

[Denny Zen is Cooking™]

Sept 9, 2022 11:06:23 GMT -5 jimmycon said:

Sept 9, 2022 10:51:56 GMT -5 Denny Zen is Cooking™ said:

I sincerely think Punk saw himself as a Chicago institution on the level of, like, Harry Caray and Michael Jordan and getting mixed reactions there while doing his "you're not fighting me, you're fighting CHICAGO" schtick really set him off more than anything. 

True plus weren’t a few people chanting colt cabana at him at the start of that promo?

Yeah, in retrospect, I think it was very telling how viscerally Punk reacted to that dude chanting Colt Cabana at him on the Dynamite before the PPV. We all kind of joked about what an overreaction was to call that dude a fat virgin over that at the time, but I think it showed that Punk was getting legitimately pissed that he wasn't being as warmly received in Chicago as he thought he would be. 

[J is Justice]

Yeah, I think it was probably the injury. He talked about the effect it had on him in the scrum and how depressed he was about it. Probably still not over it.

[David-Arquette was in WCW 2000]

I think he was genuinely happy to come back to wrestling, and to AEW in particular. However, I think he thought he would be head and shoulders above everyone in the ring, on the mic, and in the booking. Simply not the case. The wrestling landscape, for better or worse, had changed so much during his lengthy time away.. it had surpassed him, and I think him being sidelined with an I jury made him realise that. Then all the backstage gossip happened and it became a perfect storm.

[Gerard Gerard]

What did Hangman say that was so bad? I watched the build for DON, nothing strikes as particularly egregious.

[Denny Zen is Cooking™]

Sept 9, 2022 11:40:37 GMT -5 Gerard Gerard said:

What did Hangman say that was so bad? I watched the build for DON, nothing strikes as particularly egregious.

As best as I can gather, Hangman cut that promo (I can't remember the exact words) that was along the lines of CM Punk the person being different from CM Punk the on screen character, and implied that Punk doesn't care about his co-workers or the company. 

Right after that, the newz reported that Punk was responsible for trying to get Colt fired, but the Bucks stepped in and ensured that Colt kept a job. I guess Punk interpreted Hangman's promo as being the catalyst for all of that. But, really, he never actually said anything all that egregious. 

[Moppy]

Sept 9, 2022 11:40:37 GMT -5 Gerard Gerard said:

What did Hangman say that was so bad? I watched the build for DON, nothing strikes as particularly egregious.

Yeah I think this is sometimes overlooked amongst all the craziness.

Hangman went in hot, it was a little near-the-knuckle, and if he’d just walked up to Punk in the street and started spouting shit about him being poison then I’d say Punk would have every right to get hot about it. But in the context of a wrestling promo to build to a ppv match, most of the audience wouldn’t have even thought twice about it.

MJF and Kingston were saying pretty much exactly the same things about Punk on TV around the same time.

I can’t really grasp what got Punk so hot about Hangman’s comments in particular.

Edit: wrote out all of the above, but completely forgot about Cabana. D’oh. But even then, it’s such a leap for Punk to have made to go from ‘Hangman has gone into business for himself to call me out’ to ‘that motherf***er Hangman’s telling everybody I got Cabana fired!!’

[aka Cthulhu]

For me, after a while he expected something bigger. Years ago, he left the business bitter from experiences, justifiably so.

He came back, but he left as a symbol of the issues in WWE. That was years ago, and recently we've had Moxley with his issues and Miro with his at the top of my drunk head. Guy has to catch up with the lost years when everyone else is fresh. It just doesn't latch on as he hope it should. Guy was rebellion in WWE, but in AEW he's just another face in the crowd.

Maybe a flaw in the company itself, but it didn't feel he was there for parts. Like Sting... Sting himself would kick at Orange Cassidy OC-style. Just didn't feel like he got enough when it came to interact with the rest of the roster. Maybe alienated him and made him set on what he wants for him.

[Gerard Gerard]

Sept 9, 2022 11:49:07 GMT -5 Denny Zen is Cooking™ said:

Sept 9, 2022 11:40:37 GMT -5 Gerard Gerard said:

What did Hangman say that was so bad? I watched the build for DON, nothing strikes as particularly egregious.

As best as I can gather, Hangman cut that promo (I can't remember the exact words) that was along the lines of CM Punk the person being different from CM Punk the on screen character, and implied that Punk doesn't care about his co-workers or the company. 

Right after that, the newz reported that Punk was responsible for trying to get Colt fired, but the Bucks stepped in and ensured that Colt kept a job. I guess Punk interpreted Hangman's promo as being the catalyst for all of that. But, really, he never actually said anything all that egregious. 

That is so bizarre - everything Hangman said seem like followed logically on from where the MJF feud had left off and, more to point, Two-Faced Punk seemed to be where it was all heading even as recently as the August 24th Dynamite.

[Lizuka #BLM]

I do remember at the time a lot of people kind of reacted to that Hangman promo with, "Wait, what is he even going on about, what are we doing now, why so much hostility?" but I also think it really just read as an attempt to kick some momentum into a feud that was kind of lifeless and meandering before that.

[Tiger Millionaire]

Playing armchair psychologist, Punk either loves something or hates it; friends, co-workers, pro wrestling; ect.

[Big BosskMan]

OK, so I have been somewhat following this (admit I haven't fully watched Dynamite or Rampage the past 2 weeks but have read the recaps) and I really have to wonder if, deep down, Punk - if he had the courage to admit it - regrets the situation with Colt.

Yeah, you can go back and look at their ROH run in 2003-2005 as the Second City Saints and obviously they got along.

But watch the Straight Shootin interview with them and you'll see two guys who genuinely like each other. It could've been this shoot, or perhaps the shoot with Joe, but Punk calls Cabana "the first guy I really clicked with at wrestling school" and goes on to say how they would practice spots all the time together, and how Cabana could always make him laugh, etc.

It's been said power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Same holds true with money.

He struggled to get onto the main WWE roster, but eventually did and found success. Then came the Summer of Punk where we started to see glimpses of the unhappiness/paranoia with Johnny Ace, HHH, and Vince. Eventually he got the staph infection, the AoW podcast that led to the lawsuit that led to the dissolution of the friendship.

Now all Punk has (besides AJ) is his outside interests and piles of money. Which ain't bad, TBH.

So he walks out, dabbles in MMA, and after a bit, along comes AEW. And after a bit, Punk starts to get that itch again.

When he first started talking with Tony, there should have been (and maybe there was, we'll never know) a conversation about Cabana. Tony could have offered "I know there's a lot of ill will between you two but if you want to work here and become our champion, let's set some ground rules." But instead, what likely happened is Tony decided to be a friend and not a boss.

And those ground rules, whatever they were, should have been communicated to everybody. Instead, over time we got these oblique comments that only fed into the reality/shoot stuff that smart fans enjoy. Then factor in injury, title interim nonsense, leaks to the media, paranoia reaching a fever pitch, title unification, injury again, and the Gripebomb was unavoidable and inevitable.

Between Punk, Ace, Tony, the Elite, Hangman, and God knows who else, there's plenty of blame to go around.

But, getting back to my original point, I think somewhere in there, there may be some regret over the Cabana situation. I've lost long-time friends before, people I've been through the wringer with, and it hurts. You may not want to admit it, but even at a subatomic level, it still hurts.

Forgiveness isn't for the other person. It's for you to let that stuff go and move on in your life.

What did Punk say in his angle with MJF again?

Hurt people "hurt people."

And he's hurt - physically, mentally, emotionally.

IF this is his last wresting run, it feels woefully incomplete and I hope somehow he's able to find peace and contentment one day.

[clifford]

Dude was genuinely happy for a minute yeah. Photobombing other wrestlers' backstage shoots, goofing around, forming what seemed like genuine new friendships with guys like FTR and Danhausen. He was getting to do what he wanted in the ring and on the mic with no limitations, and was constantly trying new things in regards to both. Creatively he had never looked more content.

However, it looks like all that just staved off good ol' Phil appearing eventually. The injury must've sucked so bad for him. Bedridden, first world title run in almost a decade taken away from him, stewing at home over perceived slights against him and his character for months. He's incapable of swallowing his pride, or going about fixing shit like that like a normal functioning adult, and so by the time he was ready to return was ready to resume full on Prickmode.

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

He probably was when he first came back. As much of an unprofessional ass as he's been in the last few months, he really strikes me as someone who has his struggles with mental health and maybe returning to wrestling after being gone so long wasn't a good fit for him. Hopefully the dude can find something to finally be happy with, but I don't think it'll ever be wrestling.

[Mochi Lone Wolf]

I think you need to be careful putting all the blame on perceived slights and think more about injuries taking a mental toll.

Injuries suck physically, sure, but there’s a mental toll that it takes as well. Especially when your whole livelihood revolves around your body being in the best shape possible. As someone who is get active, I can say for certain that my darkest places mentally came when I was injured and sat at home with no outlet to clear my head.

I’m not convinced things would ever have gotten this far If he had gotten injured. I really don’t.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Sept 9, 2022 11:54:41 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

I do remember at the time a lot of people kind of reacted to that Hangman promo with, "Wait, what is he even going on about, what are we doing now, why so much hostility?" but I also think it really just read as an attempt to kick some momentum into a feud that was kind of lifeless and meandering before that.

I absolutely was confused by the Hangman promo but everything he said worked in modern kayfabe too

The thought of that promo being what pissed Punk off this much before he went on to beat Hangman for the title is just ridiculous but seems like it was the first crack

[sportatorium]

Punk seems to have flipped to "old school guy" on the Elite. Before working with Hangman, I think he was completely happy working before then. I don't know any details, but knowing a bit about the people he was working with, there probably was some agreement about what was going to be said & how the feuds would unfold. The build to his title match against Hangman wasn't very good, and maybe he thought Hangman should have run things by him, gotten him to sign off etc.

The trouble seemed to take off from there. The fact that he & Colt didn't get together before he entered a company where Colt was working seems mind blowing at this point. As I said at the beginning of the post and taking the comments he made in the presser- he seems like the old school guy pissed off that the Bucks & The Elite didn't "shake his hand". His narrative that they've done nothing in the wrestling business is stupid and falling on deaf ears.

So, yes I think he was happy, but I don't think he will ever remain happy in the wrestling business.

[Dub H]

Sept 9, 2022 13:34:42 GMT -5 sportatorium said:

Punk seems to have flipped to "old school guy" on the Elite. Before working with Hangman, I think he was completely happy working before then. I don't know any details, but knowing a bit about the people he was working with, there probably was some agreement about what was going to be said & how the feuds would unfold. The build to his title match against Hangman wasn't very good, and maybe he thought Hangman should have run things by him, gotten him to sign off etc.

The trouble seemed to take off from there. The fact that he & Colt didn't get together before he entered a company where Colt was working seems mind blowing at this point. As I said at the beginning of the post and taking the comments he made in the presser- he seems like the old school guy pissed off that the Bucks & The Elite didn't "shake his hand". His narrative that they've done nothing in the wrestling business is stupid and falling on deaf ears.

So, yes I think he was happy, but I don't think he will ever remain happy in the wrestling business.

According to the ol' rumour mill , CM Punk was already angry at Hangman that in an interview he was asked about following advices of guys like Punk & Sting and he said that he really need it, and did things more on his own way by trial and error

I think combined with the more news a lot of the roster also brushed off Punk's advice , Punk sees him as the "problem child"

[sportatorium]

Sept 9, 2022 13:36:50 GMT -5 Dub H said:

Sept 9, 2022 13:34:42 GMT -5 sportatorium said:

Punk seems to have flipped to "old school guy" on the Elite. Before working with Hangman, I think he was completely happy working before then. I don't know any details, but knowing a bit about the people he was working with, there probably was some agreement about what was going to be said & how the feuds would unfold. The build to his title match against Hangman wasn't very good, and maybe he thought Hangman should have run things by him, gotten him to sign off etc.

The trouble seemed to take off from there. The fact that he & Colt didn't get together before he entered a company where Colt was working seems mind blowing at this point. As I said at the beginning of the post and taking the comments he made in the presser- he seems like the old school guy pissed off that the Bucks & The Elite didn't "shake his hand". His narrative that they've done nothing in the wrestling business is stupid and falling on deaf ears.

So, yes I think he was happy, but I don't think he will ever remain happy in the wrestling business.

According to the ol' rumour mill , CM Punk was already angry at Hangman that in an interview he was asked about following advices of guys like Punk & Sting and he said that he really need it, and did things more on his own way by trial and error

I think combined with the more news a lot of the roster also brushed off Punk's advice , Punk sees him as the "problem child"

I forgot about that interview. It's fascinating that besides having to forcibly hold an inebriated Jeff Hardy down for a pin,
Sting has largely avoided this stuff. He even got through the Starrcade '97 thing without getting in too deep. Punk seems to ignore that while Hangman is younger, he did have a lot of mileage on the Indies, ROH & New Japan before AEW and I don't think CM Punk made himself available back then. It really seems like he wants the Elite to revere him & they just don't.

[dynamitekidd]

I’m not sure the guy is ever what I would call happy. I do think he was content in the beginning from the paycheck and ego stroking. But once Hangman tested that ego ( what did I ever do to deserve this??) followed by an injury to further test that ego, he just wasn’t content anymore. Ego runs a tight race with money for the root of all evil.